Posted on 11/07/2012 8:23:20 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
Well, the fact of the matter is that they did stay home and enough of them so, that Romney lost this election because of it.
You can dispute the facts but Romney turned off sufficient numbers of the base to torpedo his campaign. Something many of us predicted would happen back in March. Why? Because we believed Romney to be a weak candidate.
And we were right.
And you show your true colours. You care more about Romney than the health of the nation.
At least it’s all coming out who our real friends are, and who was just intent on browbeating conservatives into supporting RMoney for their own purposes.
Nor would they try to educate them.
It's amazing how long it took me to realize this.
I plan to put it in God's hands. He is better at this stuff than I am.
(Salvation> Something else that needs to be checked on, please, cause youre the guy to do it. How many of those who voted for Obama not just Catholics were on welfare of some kind? Food stamps? Free meals for kids at school, etc.?
I decided a few days ago that I wouldn't be doing a voter study for this election cycle. Sure, the statistics will be interesting and provocative, but ultimately they will prove pointless. The last time I did one, the Catholics bickered about whether the exit polls were "scientifically accurate", about what the definition of 'Catholic' is, about how no "real Catholics" voted for Obama and (laughingly) how it was actually Protestants who overwhelmingly voted for Obama. So have fun parsing the 2012 vote, Catholics. I look forward to seeing what you all come up with, and what your takeaways will be.
IMO a 2012 "religious vote" study is pointless, because Christians no longer represent the majority vote in this country. We need to "grow the base", the takeaway that I reached after doing the 2008 study:
Year-by-year census numbers show that the number of believing, practicing Christians in this country has been steadily declining for decades. I think we have finally shrunk to the level where we've lost any influence over the culture, morality, or politics at large. IMO that's what the 2008 vote demographics are saying.We can't influence the ballot box, until we start changing the hearts and minds of the unbelievers among us. We'll remain a statistical oddity, "strangers in a foreign land" (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19), until we increase our numbers (and I don't mean simply filling seats in the pews). We Protestants and Evangelicals need to take the Great Commission and all Ten Commandments seriously again.
-- Alex Murphy, November 7, 2008
IMO the answer begins with creating a (counter-)culture for ourselves. The Christians in the first century had their own courts, their own "welfare system", their own traditions and customs. When Rome collapsed, the Christians didn't go with it because they were capable of governing themselves (and others). They'd already learned not to look to the State to meet their needs........Christians need to rediscover the idea that Jesus Christ is Lord over all of His creation, including politics and government. There is no "neutral area" that the Gospel does not apply to. I'm not talking about ecclesiocracy here. I'm talking about families and businesses and governments being subject to Christ's rule, not subject to a church's rule. There should be a common Lord and a common ethic shared between them all. This country was created and settled by Protestants who held similar ideas. if we want to take our country back from the liberals and the Godless who are turning it into a Nanny Police State, then we Christians better get educated on where that "back" is. Otherwise, we'll just go off in another direction again.
-- Alex Murphy, November 9, 2008
....In short, I believe that Christians in 2008 have lost ground, and are now too small a minority to sway elections in and of themselves. We have become strangers in a foreign land (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19).
-- Alex Murphy, November 10, 2008
The Catholic Church is failing to stem the tide of immorality here in America. The creedally orthodox Protestant churches are failing as well. IMO we can argue all day regarding whose numbers are increasing or decreasing, but none of it matters if cultural rot is still the result. We are failing to be salt and light.
-- Alex Murphy, December 22, 2008
What do they think Freedom IS? Freedom to teach what they haven't taught for 40 years? --And still don't want to teach? Freedom to live a way of life they won't even ask their parishioners to consider living?
The bishops want us, the laity, to get out there and fight for something they would rather not talk about?
"We want the freedom to practice what we don't, in fact, care to practice, thank you very much...."
I could go on but I have to wash my dishes.
Maybe the HHS chemically-spayed girls and women all getting cephalosporin-resistant gonorrhea will get their attention. No, probably not. ("Gee, we haven't had an infant Baptism in 15 years. Wonder if something... you know... happened...")
“The road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.” St. John Chrysostom (349-407 A.D.).
The bishops’ statements re: this election were too little and too late. The country was lost when the bishops did not put up a fight over the legalization of abortion 40 years ago. If they had done their duty in supporting and teaching “Humanae Vitae,” things would be radically different.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!
I may be just a party of one...but as for me, I don’t want to pursue the “blame game” about the outcome of this election.. There are numerous reasons why this election turned out as it did: the power of the Fourth Estate (which we were warned about in the papal encyclical “Atheistic Communism” which was written in 1938); the moral decay in society, the corruption in political power, the “celebrity” mania, the dereliction of duty on the part of the shepherds of the Faith...who let the sheep wander in alien pastures..., a fear of losing benefits, a skewed view of womanhood, the loss of so many intact families-——what have I failed to add to this list?
I think of the many Catholics who are earnestly trying to live out their faith day by day, not just on Sunday for an hour. These are the Catholics I know; many go to daily Mass even while they hold down jobs; many have a prayer life consistent with their belief; many have consciously placed the Lord as the Master of their lives, and the focus of their hopes and the remedy for their needs, both spiritual and practical. I believe that they are the leaven in the dough—not seen now but to be manifested at the proper time.
I believe that people like this are in the loving care of the Lord Jesus, that they are now...and will be more so in the future...the “remnant” of the Lord.
They are the ones who hear the Lord’s words to Pilate’s question “are You a king?”:
“My kingdom is not of this world”
I’m Catholic. I don’t want to blame Catholics, Evangelicals, Jews, ethnic groups or any other group by name for this election outcome.
Blame can be laid in many places.
“I have come into the world to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.”
Those who are living their lives in the Lord Jesus are and will be the bearers of His Truth in the days to come.
Amen.
They're speaking the social justice language in other countries as well and have been for quite a while.
I knew it. Catholics in America are left wing nutjobs.
There are cultural Catholics and cultural Jews, neither takes the teachings of their faith seriously.
I disagree. Without assigning blame, that is, without figuring out who is responsible for this catastrophe, it's difficult to figure out whose counsel is worthwhile, whose isn't, to whom we should pay attention, who should be ignored. It's hard to fix things when you're unwilling to figure out what went wrong, where, when and how. When you figure out what went wrong, it's inevitable to figure out the parties responsible.
As well, if you don't assign blame, you can't penalize folks. If you don't penalize them, they just repeat their errors over and over, and many folks don't realize that the errors of the blameworthy are just that, errors.
Failing to assign blame leads to repeated failure in our efforts.
All that being said, assigning blame can only be the first step. We'll need to move beyond that, forgive the idiots and transgressors (but NOT LISTEN TO THEM AGAIN), and come up with constructive solutions to fix what is wrong.
sitetest
Yes, I know what it says on paper. I know where you stand, but it is time to stop pretending. The Catholic church is a liberal institution.
All of the "Jean Jadot" and "Pio Laghi" bishops of decades ago were reliable liberals; but there has been trend in papal appointments of bishops of a more conservative bent, some in JP2's watch and accelerating since 2005 and B16. But that has been counteracted by the Hispanic demographic.
I wrote a big article for the National Catholic Register about the coming Hispanic wave in 1985. But I certainly had no idea then how big it would be, and how it would influence parishes on every level including political.
This could be healed by inspired pastoral leadership. As always, we must pray for giants, for heroes, for Saints.
Really???
So ... are you saying that Dr. Kopp is a "left wing nutjob"???
Are you saying that I am a "left wing nutjob"???
Seriously ... you desperately need to rephrase that, and recalibrate your thinking.
A big difference is that protestants have only voted democrat 3 times, in 1932, 1936, and 1964, while the Catholic vote before 1972, had never gone republican, or according to many, did go republican once, in 1956.
We are in the glory days of Catholic voting republican, it will return to it's permanent democrat loyalties soon, or it already has. The Hispanic vote also splits between the Protestant Hispanic vote, and the Catholic Hispanic vote.
Protestant Hispanics are in play, and have been voting close to 50/50 republican.
ping
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