Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On Angels and Demons
American Thinker ^ | November 4, 2012 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 11/04/2012 6:35:36 AM PST by Paladins Prayer

When actor and director Mel Gibson was asked some years ago about certain difficulties he had when making his film The Passion of the Christ, he registered a countenance of unease and said (I'm paraphrasing), "Something doesn't want this to happen."

Being just a couple of seconds of his interview, it was perhaps hardly noticed by many. But it might have made the ears of people of faith, particularly Christians, perk up. And they would have known precisely to what he was alluding.

Of course, any talk of spirits not confined to the local liquor store is now often considered the stuff of children and crackpots. Yet is such scoffing logical?

Modern man, ever the materialist, may scoff at that question. "Matters of faith are anything but logical," says he, "so making light of them is eminently so." But this betrays a misunderstanding of logic.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: angels; atheism; christianity; demons
This is a very thoughtful article. Very unique.
1 posted on 11/04/2012 6:35:43 AM PST by Paladins Prayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Paladins Prayer

It turned out to be a witness acclaimed by Christians both Roman Catholic and Protestant/evangelical. The more surprising thing would have been if it were easy, not if it were difficult.


2 posted on 11/04/2012 6:41:50 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (cat dog, cat dog, alone in the world is a little cat dog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paladins Prayer
I think Mel Gibson's problems since then are a direct Satanic attack on him for making what, in my opinion, was the greatest most influential movie made in the young 21st Century. I think Gibson fell hard because I don't think he was properly protecting himself the way he should've (Eph. 6, the whole Armour of God).

However, the greatest thing about God is that He never lets go of us or gives up on us. He always gives us 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. chances. Perhaps the Lord was using Satan to sift Gibson and for him to rid himself of whatever earthly passions he might still have. It wouldn't surprise me if Gibson came back from wherever he's come from, spiritually stronger and humbler.

3 posted on 11/04/2012 6:44:30 AM PST by MuttTheHoople (Pray for Joe Biden- Proverbs 29:9)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MuttTheHoople

James Garner wrote that Mel Gibson was flaked out and often drunk when they made “Maverick” in 1994. His personal problems long predate “The Passion” ... they were just covered up better before he got on the wrong side of the Satanic left.


4 posted on 11/04/2012 6:49:16 AM PST by Tax-chick (Watch out for spiders.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paladins Prayer

Lot’s of evidence for God in the universe.

No evidence whatsoever for angels, demons, hobgoblins or the Devil before they are abstracted from the minds of human beings.


5 posted on 11/04/2012 7:17:14 AM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

I have never met the Devil, at least he has never announced himself as such. I have met Charles Manson, and he will do until the real thing comes along.


6 posted on 11/04/2012 7:46:40 AM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: donmeaker

He’s human. Of human depravity. But human.


7 posted on 11/04/2012 8:04:37 AM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

“No evidence whatsoever....”

Hmmmm. Pretty sweeping statement, FRiend.....and also dead wrong. You can start with the Bible itself, for example. Then you can add the collective human experience over millennia.

I won’t even go into personal experience(s), and first hand (to me) accounts of individuals directly interacting with both angels and demons.

They’re very, very real and doubting their existence doesn’t change that.


8 posted on 11/04/2012 8:28:28 AM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
Lots of evidence for God in the universe.
No evidence whatsoever for angels, demons, hobgoblins or the Devil before they are abstracted from the minds of human beings.

If Jesus was indeed God, as He claimed to be, given that he talked of and interacted with both the Devil and demons it would be folly to reject their realities.

9 posted on 11/04/2012 8:29:10 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

Well said. That’s what rather quickly broke any faith I may have had in Christianity.


10 posted on 11/04/2012 9:12:00 AM PST by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Melas

Well, that’s an unwise conclusion. I’d recommend that you read the G.K. Chesterton essay, “Why I am a Catholic.” It’s not primarily about angels and demons, but he mentions why belief in them matters.


11 posted on 11/04/2012 11:19:47 AM PST by Paladins Prayer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MuttTheHoople

Thank you for your wisdom about this. I think that Satan was really angry and threatened by Gibson’s work, and so attacked him. That plus Satan likes to hunt trophies. When he can tempt and turn a good priest or other person it is a personal victory for him, a real feather in his cap so to speak. He’s all about him and his ego.

It’s a real b*%$h being cut off and separated from God.


12 posted on 11/04/2012 11:33:41 AM PST by CPO retired
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: PatriotGirl827

bookmark


13 posted on 11/04/2012 11:38:38 AM PST by PatriotGirl827 (O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

I don’t knock Christianity because I think it led directly to the founding of the United States, which could not have happened, and will not be able to continue without it.

More power to the purity of Christian faith, by whatever demonation.

In that sense Jesus was moshiach. Though moshiach is not a concept of divinity.

I believe Jesus to have been a fine rabbi, though not divine for myriad reasons, one of which is that the Devil undermines monotheism. There cannot be One God for goodness and another for Evil. Whatever one wants to call it does not change that polytheistic effect.

If someone could point to one example of this so-called Devil, or Evil being at large in Creation before Man came on the scene, I’d be all ears and eyes. But unless some similar concept has been experienced by intelligent beings elsewhere in the cosmos...I’d yet be inclined to think it invented too, thus to pass off their own malfeasence on some agent other than themselves.


14 posted on 11/04/2012 1:03:24 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
I believe Jesus to have been a fine rabbi, though not divine for myriad reasons, one of which is that the Devil undermines monotheism. There cannot be One God for goodness and another for Evil. Whatever one wants to call it does not change that polytheistic effect.

I see. But the Devil isn't a God, nor even a god, but rather a [self-]corrupted spiritual being.

If someone could point to one example of this so-called Devil, or Evil being at large in Creation before Man came on the scene, I’d be all ears and eyes. But unless some similar concept has been experienced by intelligent beings elsewhere in the cosmos...I’d yet be inclined to think it invented too, thus to pass off their own malfeasence on some agent other than themselves.

Is 14:12-14
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star {Satan}, son of the dawn.
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.'
'I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'
As you can see, his was the sin of pride, saying I will make myself like God.
(This leads to an interesting difference: humans are like God, "made in his image" and in Christianity the goal is to be like Jesus, who is God.)

Job 38:1-7
And Jehovah answereth Job out of the whirlwind, and saith: --
Who [is] this -- darkening counsel, By words without knowledge?
Gird, I pray thee, as a man, thy loins, And I ask thee, and cause thou Me to know.
Where wast thou when I founded earth? Declare, if thou hast known understanding.
Who placed its measures -- if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched out upon it a line?
On what have its sockets been sunk? Or who hath cast its corner-stone?
In the singing together of stars of morning, And all sons of God shout for joy,
As you can see, God is talking with Job, describing the creation of the world, there is the "sons of God" shouting with joy, but this is happening before Adam, so there couldn't be 'sons' in the plural sense. {Also, note the genealogy of Jesus in one of the Gospels refers to Adam as son of God.}

So there's some period of time between the creation of the universe and the fall of Satan. ('Fall' not being a literal/geographical, but more like the phrase "fall from grace.") Do I know exactly when? No.

15 posted on 11/04/2012 1:29:10 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

Is. 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star {Satan}, son of the dawn...

Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


16 posted on 11/04/2012 2:14:05 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

and you my fine feathered friend are wrong and you need to be really careful if that is your opinion.


17 posted on 11/04/2012 6:14:47 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

you are blind and it is not your opinion that matters. greater men than you believed


18 posted on 11/04/2012 6:17:22 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

In the predominance of Jewish literature, this poem (Is 14) is interpreted as referring to the death of an Assyrian king, probably Sargon II who was slain in battle 705 BC, and was layer reinterpreted as predicting the death of a Babylonian king.

Verse 9 makes reference to Sheol and his arrival there. Verse 11 of my “Jewish Study Bible” reads,

“Worms are to be your bed,
Maggots your blanket.”

and are close enough to the King James Version to suggest an amalgam of Sheol as a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem is being suggested. There are several other such verses which tend to reinforce this view.

“O Shining One, Son of the dawn...” is also seen in rabbinic literature as the planet Venus, and is thought related to Isaiah’s knowlege of Greek and Cannanite mythology where an insolent young king is thrown down to earth by a higher deity.

The Book Of Job exibits at least four compostional styles, and likely as many different authors from the mid 6th to 4th centuries BC. It is also generally considered in the Talmud to be a work of fiction.

And again, it is the human mind and nothing else that this Devil affects. While God appears to have been quite active in the universe before the appearance of mankind, where is this thing elsewhere?


19 posted on 11/04/2012 7:48:34 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk
Greater and lessor men have believed, no doubt. Though it is in the blindness of every thinking being that I would seek God, and hope and believe that He understands.
20 posted on 11/04/2012 8:01:58 PM PST by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: onedoug
And again, it is the human mind and nothing else that this Devil affects.

Certainly the biggest portion of [human/demon] interaction is with the mind (i.e. Jesus casting demons from the madman), but this does not mean that it is exclusive thereunto. The interaction between Satan and Jesus has Satan offering all the world to Jesus: Jesus did not engage him on the level of having the authority to do so, but rather on the level of what God's law said... if the devil were only a thing of his mind, and if Jesus is God, then there would be no wrong in worshiping Satan as he [Satan] would be God. Therefore Satan must be a different 'thing' than God.

While God appears to have been quite active in the universe before the appearance of mankind, where is this thing elsewhere?

I'm not sure, I wasn't there... nor is my gift of insight that sharp.

21 posted on 11/04/2012 8:34:30 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Paladins Prayer

Read it. At least you were slightly different and didn’t suggest I read C.S. Lewis. I’ve read all of his stuff.

I can’t believe. It’s not in me. I have tried, but the voice of reason is always stronger.


22 posted on 11/04/2012 9:26:19 PM PST by Melas (u)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Paladins Prayer
This is a very thoughtful article. Very unique.

That's why I would have posted it in News/Activism. In topics , I would have checked off crime, culture, philosophy and editorial in that order.

"For example, today it is not uncommon to hear, as a famous primatologist (whose name is not important) has reported, that '[t]he Bonobo apes have sex frequently -- even with members of the same sex -- and this may be their secret to avoiding conflict.'"

--snip--

"And what do moderns give us? The Bonobo ape. Or, worse still, pop-culture icons."

Our culture is crap, and its decline is accelerating.

23 posted on 11/05/2012 1:21:47 AM PST by neverdem ( Xin loi min oi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson