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Hallelujah! At Age 400, King James Bible Still Reigns
NPR.org ^ | April 18, 2011 | Barbara Bradley Hagerty

Posted on 04/18/2011 5:23:54 PM PDT by Colofornian

This year, the most influential book you may never have read is celebrating a major birthday. The King James Version of the Bible was published 400 years ago. It's no longer the top-selling Bible, but in those four centuries, it has woven itself deeply into our speech and culture.

Let's travel back to 1603: King James I, who had ruled Scotland, ascended to the throne of England. What he found was a country suspicious of the new king.

"He was regarded as a foreigner," says Gordon Campbell, a historian at the University of Leicester in England. "He spoke with a heavy Scottish accent, and one of the things he needed to legitimize himself as head of the Church of England was a Bible dedicated to him."

At that time, England was in a Bible war between two English translations. The Bishops' Bible was read in churches: It was clunky, inelegant. The Geneva Bible was the choice of the Puritans and the people: It was bolder, more accessible.

"The problem with the Geneva Bible was it had marginal notes," says David Lyle Jeffrey, a historian of biblical interpretation at Baylor University. "And from the point of view of the royalists, and especially King James I, these marginal comments often did not pay sufficient respect to the idea of the divine right of kings."

Those notes referred to kings as tyrants, they challenged regal authority, and King James wanted them gone. So he hatched an idea: Bring the bishops and the Puritans together, ostensibly to work out their differences about church liturgy. His true goal was to maneuver them into proposing a new Bible. His plans fell into place after he refused every demand of the Puritans to simplify the liturgy, and they finally suggested a new translation. With that, James commissioned a new Bible without those seditious notes. Forty-seven scholars and theologians worked through the Bible line by line for seven years.

"It is, I think, the most scrupulous process of Bible translation that has ever been," says Campbell, author of Bible: The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011.

What astonishes Jeffrey is that such beauty could be produced by a committee. "The quality of the poetry is extraordinarily high," he says. "It's memorable. It's beautiful. And in the KJV, it's distinctively the voice of God."

Consider Isaiah 40, he says, where God speaks out of the whirlwind.

Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

"You see, see that's not street discourse," Jeffrey says, laughing. "We don't talk like that to each other, do we?"

Today, newer, colloquial translations have pushed the King James aside. It's mainly used in African-American, Mormon and a few Protestant churches. But in moments of tragedy or turmoil or change, we turn to the King James.

In 1995, President Bill Clinton quoted Proverbs after the bombing in Oklahoma City: "Let us teach our children that the God of comfort is also the God of righteousness. Those who trouble their own house will inherit the wind."

After the space shuttle Columbia was lost in 2003, President George W. Bush turned to Isaiah: "Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing."

And when the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. dreamed, only the King James would suffice. Quoted from memory, his wording is not exact, but the poetry and passion are straight from the prophet: "I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together."

The King James is the poetry that inspired Handel's Messiah, but the words also captivated modern musicians. The Byrds sang from Ecclesiastes in Turn Turn Turn: proclaiming that there is "A time to be born, a time to die, A time to plant, a time to reap, A time to kill, a time to heal."

Simon and Garfunkel echoed the Gospels when they sang, Like a bridge over troubled waters, I will lay me down.

And when Kansas voiced its existential angst — All we are is dust in the wind — it was inspired by the Psalms.

And think great literature: Even the secular novel is drenched in the prose and poetry of the King James. "Just think about titles," says Campbell. F. Scott Fitzgerald: This Side of Paradise, The Beautiful and the Damned. John Steinbeck: East of Eden, The Grapes of Wrath. William Faulkner: Go Down Moses, Absalom Absalom. "There are loads of them," he says. "Buried in the texture of the modern novel, which is a secular form, is a level of religious allusion that reflects the culture from which those novels emerge."

The King James is woven into our lives. It was read in churches and family devotionals for centuries, and today its language laces hundreds of everyday phrases. Consider: "How the mighty are fallen" (Samuel 1:19), and "Can a leopard change its spot?" (Jeremiah 13:23), and "The writing is on the wall" (Daniel 5: 5/6), and "The blind leading the blind" (Matthew 15:14).

"These phrases have become part and parcel then of the general usage in the English language," says Jeffrey. "We do not recognize them any longer perhaps as biblical unless we have a pretty good memory for the language of the KJV."

Campbell adds that this Bible is foundational to the English-speaking world. "It's in the texture of our society rather than on the surface of it, I think. But if you trace back who we are, how we speak, how we think, many of those things have their origins in the King James Bible."

He and others say that new translations will come and go, as our language changes with each generation. But as long we can understand the King James Bible, this four-century-old book will be seen as the voice of God — and the highest poetry of man.

Common English Phrases Found In The King James Bible:

Though it cannot be said that all of these phrases originated in the bible, it is likely that the King James Bible was the first time that many of them appeared in English.

A drop in the bucket (Isaiah 40:15)

A house divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:25)

A man after his own heart (Samuel 13:14 or Acts 13:22)

A wolf in sheep's clothing (Matthew 7:15)

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth (Exodus 21:24; Leviticus 24:20; Deuteronomy 19:21; Matthew 5:38)

Apple of your eye (Deuteronomy 32:10, Zechariah 2:8)

At their wits' end (Psalms 107:27)

Baptism of fire (Matthew 3:11)

Bite the dust (adapted from Psalms 72)

Broken heart (Psalms 34:18)

By the skin of your teeth (Job 19:20)

By the sweat of your brow (Genesis 3:19)

Can a leopard change its spots? (Jeremiah 13:23)

Cast the first stone (John 8:7)

Chariots of Fire (2 Kings 6:17)

Cross to bear (Luke 14:27)

Don't cast your pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6)

Eat drink and be merry (Ecclesiastes 8:15)

Fall by the wayside (Matthew 13:4)

Fall from grace (Galatians 5:4)

Fat of the land (Genesis 45:18)

Feet of clay (Daniel 2:31-33)

Fight the good fight (1 Timothy 6:12)

Fire and brimstone (Genesis 19:24-26)

Flesh and blood (Matthew 16:17)

Fly in the ointment (adapted from Ecclesiastes 10:1)

Forbidden fruit (Genesis 2:9)

From strength to strength (Psalms 84:7)

Give up the ghost (Mark 15:37)

Heart's desire (Psalms 21:2)

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword (Matthew 26:52)

Holier than thou (Isaiah 65:5)

How the mighty are fallen (Samuel 1:19)

In the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52)

It's better to give than receive (Acts 20:35)

Labour of love (Hebrews 6:10)

Lamb to the slaughter (Isaiah 53:7)

Land of Nod (Genesis 4:16)

Law unto themselves (Romans 2:14)

Letter of the law (2 Corinthians 3:6)

Living off the fat of the land (Genesis 45:18)

Love of money is the root of all evil (Timothy 6:10)

Manna from heaven (Exodus 16:15)

Many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14)

My cup runneth over (Psalms 23:5)

No rest for the wicked (adapted from Isaiah 57:20)

Nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

O ye of little faith (Luke 12:28)

Out of the mouths of babes (Psalms 8:2, Matthew 21:16)

Peace offering (Leviticus 3:6)

Pride goes before a fall (Proverbs 16:18)

Put words in her mouth (2 Samuel 14:3)

Put your house in order (2 Kings 20:1)

Reap what you sow (adapted from Galatians 6:7)

See eye to eye (Isaiah 52:8)

Set your teeth on edge (Jeremiah 31:30)

Sign of the times (Matthew 16:3)

Sour grapes (Jeremiah 31:30)

Sweat of your brow (Genesis 3:19)

Tender mercies (Psalms 25:6)

The blind leading the blind (Matthew 15:14)

The ends of the earth (Zechariah 9:10)

The root of the matter (Job 19:28)

The powers that be (Romans 13:1)

The salt of the earth (Matthew 5:13)

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak (Matthew 26:41)

The Straight and narrow (Matthew 7:13/14)

There's nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9)

Two edged sword (Proverbs 5:4)

Voice crying in the wilderness (John 1:23)

Wages of sin (Romans 6:23)

Wash your hands of the matter (Matthew 27:24)

White as snow (Daniel 7:9)

Woe is me (Job 10:15)

Writing is on the wall (Daniel 5: 5/6)

Note: Most of these phrases are direct quotations. Others have slight word order changes that make the modern phrase quicker and catchier.

More On The King James Bible

How The King James Bible 'Begat' English Idioms

If you've "fought the good fight" or heard what "comes out of the mouths of babes," thank the Bible.


TOPICS: Ecumenism; History; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; churchhistory; culturalliteracy; happybirthday; kingjamesversion; kjv; kjvbible; poetic; thevoiceofgod
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I heard this report on NPR today -- and wanted to pass it on...sounds even better on NPR...because it includes music clips of KJV excerpts put to language (The Byrds, Simon and Garfunkel, Kansas) and clips from speeches (Martin Luther King, etc.).

From the article: This year, the most influential book you may never have read is celebrating a major birthday. The King James Version of the Bible was published 400 years ago. It's no longer the top-selling Bible, but in those four centuries, it has woven itself deeply into our speech and culture.

From the article: What astonishes Jeffrey is that such beauty could be produced by a committee. "The quality of the poetry is extraordinarily high," he says. "It's memorable. It's beautiful. And in the KJV, it's distinctively the voice of God."

1 posted on 04/18/2011 5:24:03 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Jim Robinson

Ping


2 posted on 04/18/2011 5:24:52 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jesus-as-friend doesn't let sinners dive dunk-free; it's good to let Jesus be your designated diver)
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To: Colofornian
"And in the KJV, it's distinctively the voice of God."

Amen.

3 posted on 04/18/2011 5:25:29 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
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To: theKid51

ping


4 posted on 04/18/2011 5:27:20 PM PDT by bmwcyle (It is Satan's fault)
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To: Colofornian

I know that it is said that the newer translations are more accurate to the original transcripts ...but I have a real friendship with the KJV... it is like poetry and a sweet melody to our ears..


5 posted on 04/18/2011 5:28:09 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: Colofornian
I don't think so. The Bible is imuch older than just the King James Version.Didn't you ever read Luther's quote below?

Bible


"We are compelled to concede to the Papists
that they have the Word of God,
that we received it from them,
and that without them
we should have no knowledge of it at all."

~ Martin Luther



EWTN Live - March 23 - A Journey Through the Bible
"Our Father's Plan" - EWTN series with Dr. Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins on the Bible timeline
The Daunting Journey From Faith to Faith [Anglicanism to Catholicism]
Reflections on the Soon to Be Released New American Bible (Revised Edition)[Catholic Caucus]
New American Bible changes some words such as "holocaust"
Is the Bible the Only Revelation from God? (Catholic / Orthodox Caucus)
History of the Bible (caution: long)
Catholic and Protestant Bibles
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: ON READING THE BIBLE [Catholic Caucus]

Because I Love the Bible
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
When Was the Bible Really Written?
Three Reasons for Teaching the Bible [St. Thomas Aquinas]
The Smiting Is Still Implied (God of the OT vs the NT)
Where Is That Taught in the Bible?
Friday Fast Fact: The Bible in English
Bible Reading is Central in Conversions to Catholicism in Shangai, Reports Organization
Verses (in Scripture) I Never Saw
5 Myths about 7 Books

Lectionary Statistics - How much of the Bible is included in the Lectionary for Mass? (Popquiz!)
Pope calls Catholics to daily meditation on the Bible
What Are the "Apocrypha?"
The Accuracy of Scripture
US Conference of Catholic Bishops recommendations for Bible study
CNA unveils resource to help Catholics understand the Scriptures
The Dos and Don’ts of Reading the Bible [Ecumenical]
Pope to lead marathon Bible reading on Italian TV
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: Books of the Catholic Bible: The Complete Scriptures [Ecumenical]

Beginning Catholic: When Was The Bible Written? [Ecumenical]
The Complete Bible: Why Catholics Have Seven More Books [Ecumenical]
U.S. among most Bible-literate nations: poll
Bible Lovers Not Defined by Denomination, Politics
Dei Verbum (Catholics and the Bible)
Vatican Offers Rich Online Source of Bible Commentary
Clergy Congregation Takes Bible Online
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: Mary's Last Words
A Bible Teaser For You... (for everyone :-)
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Return of Devil's Bible to Prague draws crowds
Doctrinal Concordance of the Bible [What Catholics Believe from the Bible] Catholic Caucus
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?
Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?
Church and the Bible(Caatholic Caucus)
Pope Urges Prayerful Reading of Bible
Catholic Caucus: It's the Church's Bible
How Tradition Gave Us the Bible
The Church or the Bible

6 posted on 04/18/2011 5:28:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian

I don’t use the KJV Bible, but I grew up with it. I learned The Lord’s Prayer, the 23rd Psalm and other passages in KJV. Great article!


7 posted on 04/18/2011 5:28:51 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname (I really hate not knowing what was said in the deleted posts....)
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To: Salvation

Oops

imuch=much


8 posted on 04/18/2011 5:29:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian

I don’t know about you, but I don’t believe much that NPR puts out!! LOL!


9 posted on 04/18/2011 5:31:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian

Wait ‘til ya read it in Hebrew! Then you get to really plumb the depths of God’s mind!


10 posted on 04/18/2011 5:32:19 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Colofornian

**I heard this report on NPR today **

Good grief, are you a dimocrat? I thought they were the only ones who listened to NPR. LOL!


11 posted on 04/18/2011 5:33:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

NPR = National Protestant Radio?! ; )


12 posted on 04/18/2011 5:36:00 PM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: RnMomof7

Happily, the Bible means things in English too. Read Proverbs 3:5-6 in the KJV and the NIV and see what I mean. KJV isn’t just the Word of God, it’s art.


13 posted on 04/18/2011 5:36:46 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
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To: Colofornian
" Hallelujah! At Age 400, King James Bible Still Reigns"

Reigns over what? Frankly, this Christian isn't at all interested in a bible named after a human King. I'll still take the original Christian bible that was fully assembled, codified and deemed "inspired by God" around 382 A.D. That bible came out of the Christian Church, not from some secular King who decided to make his own version.

14 posted on 04/18/2011 5:38:55 PM PDT by jiminycricket000
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To: Salvation
I don’t know about you, but I don’t believe much that NPR puts out!! LOL!

Same here, but "much" is the operative word...which means occasionally they get somethin' right or mostly right.

15 posted on 04/18/2011 5:40:07 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jesus-as-friend doesn't let sinners dive dunk-free; it's good to let Jesus be your designated diver)
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To: Salvation

I was scanning & that was the report...


16 posted on 04/18/2011 5:42:08 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jesus-as-friend doesn't let sinners dive dunk-free; it's good to let Jesus be your designated diver)
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To: Colofornian

I grew up with the King James Bible.

As a Catholic, I am aware that there are a few mistranslations. And you need the KJV with Apocrypha, since the Protestant canon leaves a number of books out.

But the mistranslations are not very many. The sad truth is that the ICEL translations used in the English-speaking Catholic world after Vatican II, are far worse from the point of view of accuracy as well as strength and beauty.

The NAB is a lousy translation, and so are most of the recent, politically correct translations found in Protestant and Catholic Churches alike.

I still quote the KJV, or AV for Authorized Version as it calls itself, for preference.


17 posted on 04/18/2011 5:42:23 PM PDT by Cicero
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Forever O LORD, THY word is settled in Heaven and earth


18 posted on 04/18/2011 5:53:24 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Cicero
Yeah, it does have a few mistranslations. One that struck me as funny was where in Leviticus 15 and Numbers 6 it says to bring as an offering two turtles, when it should have mean two turtledoves. Lol

But I still like the language of the KJV. I have some other translations, but some of the newer tranlations are not so good. KJV is my favorite in most cases.

19 posted on 04/18/2011 5:56:09 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: knarf
Forever O LORD, THY word is settled in Heaven and earth

"For I am the LORD, I change not." - Malachi 3:6a

20 posted on 04/18/2011 5:58:51 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
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To: Cicero
As a Catholic, I am aware that there are a few mistranslations. And you need the KJV with Apocrypha, since the Protestant canon leaves a number of books out.

May I remind you that any and all versions used by the RC church prior to 1546 -- including the fourth-century Vulgate commissioned by Pope Damasus I -- also left "a number of books out" -- namely those same apocryphal books!

If the RC Church could do without their official sanction for 1100+ years, they weren't necessary.

21 posted on 04/18/2011 6:02:30 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jesus-as-friend doesn't let sinners dive dunk-free; it's good to let Jesus be your designated diver)
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To: RnMomof7

My understanding is that the newer translations are more accurate UNTIL you hit the verses that people of a certain political bent found “offensive” and “discriminatory.” At those points they simply rewrote the passages to suit the feminist/homosexual/church-of-everything-goes agenda. No thanks, I’ll stick to the archaic stuff. Maybe give the Geneva a try.


22 posted on 04/18/2011 6:06:00 PM PDT by Trod Upon (Obama: Making the Carter malaise look good. Misery Index in 3...2...1)
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To: jiminycricket000

I’m not sure I understand. You read the Bible in Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek? Which original Bible?


23 posted on 04/18/2011 6:12:08 PM PDT by SuzyQue (Remember to think.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
Read Proverbs 3:5-6 in the KJV and the NIV and see what I mean. KJV isn’t just the Word of God, it’s art.

Then there's the commandments... they just don't really sound like they carry any "oomph" unless they are read in the King James Version:

Consider Exodus 20:3, in the KJV: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

And now in the NIV: You shall have no other gods before me.

KJV to me... It just literally sounds like God is reaching out and grabbing you.

24 posted on 04/18/2011 6:19:27 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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From the FRchives:
25 posted on 04/18/2011 6:19:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: Colofornian

Hand me a Douay-Rheims Version please.


26 posted on 04/18/2011 6:21:16 PM PDT by caldera599
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To: All

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27 posted on 04/18/2011 6:23:28 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: caldera599
Hand me a Douay-Rheims Version please

I agree...the edited "readers Digest" version aka KJV leaves a lot to be desired....It is a very good interpretatio0n, as far as it goes, but you cannot edit out entire chapters because you might doubt their validity. The church did just fine for 1,600 years before the "revolters) (notice I didn't say reformers)decided that they, not Jesus, knew better as to what should be in the bible...pathetic

28 posted on 04/18/2011 7:39:23 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: jiminycricket000

Sounds like you may be much more of a biblical scholar than I, but I don’t see it as a translation by King James himself.

Rather, I see it as King James commissioning some of the best Christian scholars of the time to undertake a painstaking process of translation into English in order to make God’s Word more readily accessible to all English-speaking people around the world, for the benefit of untold generations into the future.

I believe God can (and did in this instance) use “secular” entities to provide the resources to His servants/believers that enabled the accomplishment of His Purpose. In this regard, the King’s personal motivation (for self-glorification or whatever) is irrelevant in terms of whether the translation was accurate.

That the KJV has held up for over 4 centuries is a powerful testament to God’s Hand guiding those who undertook that particular translation, I believe.

Anyway, short of learning Hebrew and Greek (which I’ve never accomplished) and studying His Word in the original languages, I’m satisfied with the KJV. At this stage in my life, I don’t see myself ever “going” with any other “version” of God’s Word.

I would appreciate it if you or other readers would not consider this post as being argumentative, just adding my thoughts to the conversation.


29 posted on 04/18/2011 8:15:19 PM PDT by Let_It_Be_So
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To: Colofornian
I don't know what the basis for that assertion is, but medieval Catholics were certainly familiar with stories found only in these so-called apocryphal books, like the story of Susanna and the story of Judith and Holofernes. Dante and Chaucer both mention Holofernes. The Dalmatian nobleman Marko Marulic finished his epic poem about Judith in 1501 (first printed edition was in 1521).

2 Maccabees 12.44-45 speaks of prayers for the dead and atonement so that they might be set free from their sin. The Catholics used this passage to support the doctrine of Purgatory, which may be the reason Luther wanted this book excluded from the Bible.

The Book of Sirach was used so often for readings in church that it got to be called "Ecclesiasticus."

30 posted on 04/18/2011 8:19:57 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Salvation

Unless you can provide the source for that quote, I’ll assume it’s phony. I see a lot of Roman Catholic apologists quote it, as though it is legit. But there is no original source ever given.


31 posted on 04/18/2011 8:27:48 PM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
Try this.
32 posted on 04/18/2011 9:04:56 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Colofornian
At Age 400, King James Bible Still Reigns

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

- Galatians 6:7

33 posted on 04/18/2011 9:33:05 PM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on its own.)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Familiarity and occasional partial usage in prayer language does not = sanctioning as the Divine Word.


34 posted on 04/18/2011 11:12:00 PM PDT by Colofornian (Jesus-as-friend doesn't let sinners dive dunk-free; it's good to let Jesus be your designated diver)
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To: Cicero

That is why I like the Jerusalem Bible, which I find it to be one of the most beautiful translations.


35 posted on 04/19/2011 3:03:42 AM PDT by Biggirl ("The Best Of Times, The Worse Of Times", Charles Dickens)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

KJV isn’t the word of God it is the word of a blasphemous heretic defrocked priest turned outlaw whom deliberately mistranslated and omitted some of the word of God and, as a result, has caused many to perish.

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold the traditions that you have learned, whether by WORD or by letter of ours.” 2Thess 2:15


36 posted on 04/19/2011 5:43:02 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: terycarl

***The church did just fine for 1,600 years before the “revolters) (notice I didn’t say reformers)decided that they, not Jesus, knew better as to what should be in the bible...pathetic ****

Why should it be pathetic? The English wanted a better bible in their own language, even later saying in the preface to the 1611 KJV that the “Cahtolicks” were the best to do it.

The Catholic church dragged their feet so long the Reformers got together some real good “learned gentlemen” and translated their own, WITH THE APOCRYPHA in it.

BIOGRAPHIES OF THE
KING JAMES VERSION TRANSLATORS

I. The First Westminister Company—translated the historical books, beginning with Genesis and ending with the Second Book of Kings.

Dr. Lancelot Andrews
Dr. John Overall
Dr. Hadrian Saravia
Dr. Richard Clarke, Dr. John Laifield, Dr. Robert Tighe, Francis Burleigh, Geoffry King, Richard Thompson
Dr. William Bedwell

II. The Cambridge Company—translated Chronicles to the end of the Song of Songs.

Edward Lively, Dr. John Richardson, Dr. Lawrence Chaderton
Francis Dillingham, Dr. Roger Andrews, Thomas Harrison, Dr. Robert Spaulding, Dr. Andrew Bing

III. The Oxford Company—translated beginning of Isaiah to the end of the Old Testament.

Dr. John Harding, Dr. John Reynolds
Dr. Thomas Holland, Dr. Richard Kilby
Dr. Miles Smith, Dr. Richard Brett, Daniel Fairclough

IV. The Second Oxford Company—translated the four Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Revelation of St. John the Divine.

Dr. Thomas Ravis, Dr. George Abbot
Dr. Richard Eedes, Dr. Giles Tomson, Sir Henry Savile
Dr. John Peryn, Dr. Ralph Ravens, Dr. John Harmar

V. The Fifth Company of Translators at Westminster—translated all of the Epistles of the New Testament

The fifth company of translators at Westminster are all found at this link
Dr. William Barlow
Dr. John Spencer
Dr. Roger Fenton
Dr. Ralph Hutchinson
William Dakins
Michael Rabbet
[Thomas(?)] Sanderson

VI. The Sixth Company of Translators at Cambridge translated the apocryphal books. The King James translators did not consider the Apocrypha to be scripture and neither did King James—see, Alexander McClure on the Apocryphal committee and Why the Apocrypha is not is the Bible.

Dr. John Duport, Dr. William Brainthwaite, Dr. Jeremiah Radcliffe
Dr. Samuel Ward
Dr. Andrew Downes, John Bois
Dr. John Ward, Dr. John Aglionby, Dr. Leonard Hutten
Dr. Thomas Bilson, Dr. Richard Bancroft


37 posted on 04/19/2011 8:02:05 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Click my name. See my home page, if you dare!)
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To: jacknhoo
and, as a result, has caused many to perish.

And you know this how?

38 posted on 04/19/2011 10:03:34 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("It's hard to take the president seriously." - Jim DeMint)
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To: Salvation

That’s not helpful. What is the specific ***source*** of that particular quotation?


39 posted on 04/19/2011 10:16:00 AM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: caldera599; Colofornian; terycarl

“Hand me a Douay-Rheims Version please.”

The Douay-Rheims normally sold is a revision of the KJV done in the 1700s.

“Much of the text of the 1582/1610 bible, however, employed a densely latinate vocabulary, to the extent of being in places unreadable; and consequently this translation was replaced by a revision undertaken by bishop Richard Challoner; the New Testament in three editions 1749, 1750, and 1752; the Old Testament (minus the Vulgate apocrypha), in 1750. Although retaining the title Douay–Rheims Bible, the Challoner revision was in fact a new version, tending to take as its base text the King James Bible rigorously checked and extensively adjusted for improved readability and consistency with the Clementine edition of the Vulgate.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douay%E2%80%93Rheims_Bible

It might be more accurate to say Challoner changed the translation to match his theology, since the underlying Greek text didn’t support the changes...but then, the Catholic Church says the Vulgate is more accurate than the original.


40 posted on 04/19/2011 10:47:43 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Trod Upon; RnMomof7

“My understanding is that the newer translations are more accurate UNTIL you hit the verses that people of a certain political bent found “offensive” and “discriminatory.” At those points they simply rewrote the passages to suit the feminist/homosexual/church-of-everything-goes agenda.”

Some translations (the NIV, take 10) did that. The ESV & NASB are both good, with the NASB being more literal. Or you can be radical and go with the Tyndale translation from 80 years prior to the KJV. The KJV was, after all, affected by the politics of the day. That is why King James insisted on translating elder as bishop: “No Bishop, No King!”

http://www.amazon.com/Tyndales-New-Testament-David-Daniell/dp/0300065809/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303234918&sr=8-1


41 posted on 04/19/2011 10:51:25 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: jacknhoo; Colonel_Flagg

“KJV isn’t the word of God it is the word of a blasphemous heretic defrocked priest turned outlaw whom deliberately mistranslated and omitted some of the word of God and, as a result, has caused many to perish.”

Not very up on history, are you...


42 posted on 04/19/2011 10:56:31 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Colofornian
Some may have, but not all, the Gutenberg Bible contains the Deuterocanonical books.

Good info here

43 posted on 04/19/2011 2:04:24 PM PDT by conservonator (Kant spill or type...probably due to a meaningless degree from a lame midwest school)
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To: Verginius Rufus; Colofornian
May I remind you that any and all versions used by the RC church prior to 1546 -- including the fourth-century Vulgate commissioned by Pope Damasus I -- also left "a number of books out" -- namely those same apocryphal books!

If the RC Church could do without their official sanction for 1100+ years, they weren't necessary.

That's a bit of an oversimplification.

Deuterocanonical books

44 posted on 04/19/2011 2:14:00 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
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To: Salvation; Religion Moderator

I have to ask you not to keep posting that phony quote attributed to Martin Luther. There is no source for it, other than on Catholic apologetics sites.

Moderator — can you encourage Salvation to stop posting this made-up quotation? It reflects poorly on FR to promote such inaccuracies. Perhaps Salvation can defend RC with something besides fiction.


45 posted on 04/19/2011 10:09:12 PM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Salvation

Do you have the original source of the quote?


46 posted on 04/19/2011 10:20:35 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Colofornian

Amen it is the only Bible I have ever had,


47 posted on 04/19/2011 10:21:06 PM PDT by The Mayor (Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty!)
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To: Theo; Salvation
I can't resist a good research challenge and wanted to share the results with both of you:

Luther: The Infallible Church Declared the Content of Scripture?


48 posted on 04/20/2011 7:56:12 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Salvation; Religion Moderator

Thanks, AG — excellent research and excellent article.

Salvation — please don’t promulgate that quotation as though it’s accurate. To do so would be to dishonor Truth, and discredit FR. Thanks.


49 posted on 04/20/2011 8:14:43 AM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: Theo
You're quite welcome, dear Theo, and thank you for your encouragements!
50 posted on 04/20/2011 8:55:19 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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