How a seer stone helped in the Book of Mormon translation

Mormon Times ^ | Nov. 23, 2009 | Michael R. Ash

[delacoert]

Last week we talked about the frontier treasure-digging environment in which Joseph Smith lived and how his own pre-prophet world view was shaped by that environment.

As we've discussed in past articles, Joseph -- like any other prophet -- was a fallible human with preconceived ideas, opinions, and assumptions, who was divinely called to an important role. Worldviews don't change immediately or all at once. God reveals his word, line upon line, and those who listen can enlarge their understanding of truth a little here and there as they are willing to grasp new concepts.

In approximately 1819, Joseph borrowed a seer stone from a friend to find another whitish seer stone in an iron kettle 25 feet underground. Then, in 1822, Joseph found a brown stone while digging a well for Willard Chase. In Joseph's world, the ability to use a seer stone to "see" the location of lost objects was a gift from God. Joseph, his family, and many of his associates believed he had this gift.

Martin Harris recounted an incident when he literally lost a needle in hay (shavings and straw) and asked Joseph to find it with his seer stone. In a manner common to frontier diviners, Joseph put his seer stone into the bottom of a hat and then put his face into the hat -- obscuring all ambient light -- and somehow was able to see something in the stone. Martin watched Joseph closely to see that he did not peek from out of the hat. According to Martin, Joseph "reached out his hand beyond me on the right, and moved a little stick and there I saw the pin, which he picked up and gave to me. I know he did not look out of the hat until after he had picked up the pin" (Tiffany's Monthly [June 1859], 164).

We don't know how Joseph was able to do this, and we don't know what his success rate was for finding lost or hidden objects. The important thing is that Joseph believed that he was able to find lost objects and that this gift was granted him by God.

When Joseph received the plates and the Nephite Interpreters, the Interpreters would have seemed both familiar and peculiar; familiar in that they were stones that could be used as tools to see things as shown by God; peculiar because they were to be used to translate a strange text.

We don't know what instructions Joseph received in utilizing the Interpreters but it seems that he may have been on his own to figure them out. Since they were shaped like glasses, Joseph apparently tried to use them -- at least initially -- as one would use spectacles. This proved to be difficult, however, because the lenses were set wider than Joseph's eyes and caused eyestrain.

Apparently Joseph likened the Interpreters to his seer stone and, according to Martin Harris, tried to use them in the bottom of a hat but found they were too big to fit.

Somewhere during the early stages of translating, Joseph tried his seer stone and found that they -- like the Nephite Interpreters -- could serve as a tool for receiving the Book of Mormon translation. Once Joseph used his seer stone for translating, he never went back to divining.

Martin Harris, Joseph's first scribe during the translation process, wanted to test the veracity of Joseph's seer stone and related the following incident: During a break from translating, the two men would sometimes go to the river and throw stones. Once, Martin found a rock that closely resembled Joseph's seer stone and, when the prophet wasn't looking, switched the stone with the one in the hat. When the translation resumed, Joseph paused for a long time and then complained that he was unable to see the translation. Martin confessed to switching the stones because he wanted to "stop the mouths of fools" who said that Joseph merely memorized material and repeated it back to Martin.

Eventually, Joseph dictated 116 pages of text. Martin begged Joseph to let him take the pages to show his wife who was skeptical of the entire venture. After repeatedly petitioning the Lord -- who initially told Joseph "no," Martin took the pages to his wife and ended up losing the translation. Joseph was reprimanded and the Lord took away the plates, the Interpreters, and Joseph's ability to translate. When the plates were restored, so was Joseph's gift and the remainder of the Book of Mormon was likely translated by way of the seer stone.

More on the Book of Mormon translation in the next issue.

[delacoert]

I love this part:

Martin Harris recounted an incident when he literally lost a needle in hay (shavings and straw) and asked Joseph to find it with his seer stone. In a manner common to frontier diviners, Joseph put his seer stone into the bottom of a hat and then put his face into the hat -- obscuring all ambient light -- and somehow was able to see something in the stone. Martin watched Joseph closely to see that he did not peek from out of the hat. According to Martin, Joseph "reached out his hand beyond me on the right, and moved a little stick and there I saw the pin, which he picked up and gave to me. I know he did not look out of the hat until after he had picked up the pin" (Tiffany's Monthly [June 1859], 164).

[flowerplough]

Joseph — like any other prophet — was a fallible human with preconceived ideas, opinions, and assumptions?

Understatement of the week.

[Feline_AIDS]

Now where did I put those sacred golden plates!? Wait... it’ll come to me... wait a minute... it’s coming back... no, that’s not it...

[montag813]

Uh...this thread gonna git uglay

[doc1019]

I want me one of them there “seer” stones … might help me in the stock market.

[Steelfish]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2393756/posts

[GSP.FAN]

Want some popcorn?

[MHGinTN]

Mormon Haters!

[Last Dakotan]

You know, I like Mormans and all that, but there is no way I’m ever going to take this seriously.

[MHGinTN]

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'

[athelass]

Admin, this is on the front page because...??

[montag813]

[Safrguns]

I think if I were a scam artist, I would want to live in Utah.

[LiteKeeper]

Home of descendants!

[Tigen]

I think your right musrooms can give real bad diarea too.

[Religion Moderator]

This thread is posted in the Religion Forum.

If you do not wish to see RF posts, do NOT use the "everything" option on the browse. Instead, browse by "News/Activism." When you log back in, the browse will reset to "everything" - so be sure to set it back to "News/Activism."

[delacoert]

[Bidimus1]

Firstly the claim of j.smith translating anything is false, if any thing he claims that God tough smiths peep stone which smith had used to con people as a money digger or by a set of interpreters that some time later were called the urim and thummim (looked like glasses with stone lens) showed in the CORRECT and PROPER English from the “reformed Egyptian” on the plates.

The plates them selves need not even be in the room to do this, the few “witnesses” of the plates are all relatives by blood or law (save 1) and either never saw the plates except when covered or not with there physical eyes but with the “eyes of faith”.

His next attempt at claiming to be a translator is the book of Abraham which has been proved to be farcical attempt at best as the images he put in the book are quite common and NOT in any way related to what j.smtih claimed, but not to be deterred smith then makes his Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar text which the lds church thought had been lost but sadly for them was found again, it has no relationship to Egyptian or any other language just more con-artistry from a con man.

Lastly he was given some “brass plates” found in kinderhook, he translated some of them and planed on using them to make a second book on the scale of the book of mormon.... but two things prevented him from doing so 1 he used the Nauvoo Legion to destroy an opposition newspaper and was arrested taken to the cartridge jail and while awaiting trial for treason was killed. The second was that they were made up by some local farmers and were fake as a 3 dollar bill.

For more info on smith as “translator” read BY his own hand on papyrus by Larson
Complete Text of book
http://www.irr.org/MIT/bhoh-pt1.html
also http://www.biblequery.org/OtherBeliefs/Mormonism/BookOfAbraham.htm

Kinderhook plates
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/kinderhookplates.htm
http://mormonthink.com/kinderhookweb.htm

Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar
For $18 you can get a copy and compare it to realy Ancient Egyptian ! http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no100.htm#Alphabet

[Falconspeed]

n Joseph's world, the ability to use a seer stone to "see" the location of lost objects was a gift from God.

Mormonism + Islam = a fake, made up religion.

Jesus is Lord and King of the universe. "Every knee shall bow..." But good ol' Joseph and crazy Muhammed want everyone to bow in another direction: toward the exploitation of women and the abuse of power.

[Elsie]

In a manner common to frontier diviners, Joseph put his seer stone into the bottom of a hat and then put his face into the hat -- obscuring all ambient light -- and somehow was able to see something in the stone.

I can see the marquee now:

Men Who Stare at Rocks

Starring George Clooney