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The Resurrection On One Of The Sabbaths ?
Word Press.com ^ | May 26 2009 | Pmary65

Posted on 06/05/2009 9:05:52 AM PDT by Pmary65

The resurrection of Jesus is a central belief to the Christian faith where the Gospel story tells the events for which there has been much Biblical interest, inquiry and academic discussion to this day. It is my hope that this presentation may provide some edification to the unanswered questions of bible believing followers.

The traditional belief for Christians regarding Passover depicts Jesus being crucified on Good Friday and resurrecting early Easter Sunday morning.

This belief has been the general consensus for main stream Christianity over the past two millenniums. Many Bible Church authorities and independent study groups have delved deeply into scripture establishing their views in favor of manufactured evidences. These so-called evidences mingled through scripture for the most part have become the widely accepted margin received by the moral majority of Christian believers.

I hereby offer a critical view regarding the crucifixion and resurrection events from an un-biased vantage point which has resulted after many years of independent bible research and study. Here we will be scratching the surface and re-joining the various points of interest. There is much to be said about all of this. In time we’ll see what comes of it. I know many will refute this presentation but hopefully some light in perspective-ness may be gained to those with an open mind.

The true essence of understanding Jewish chronology is modeled with the reckoning of time from the very beginning as described in Genesis 1:4,5.“And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.” KJV. The other verses in Genesis 1:8 ,13, 19, 23, and 31 say; “And the evening and the morning were the (e.g. second, third...etc.) day.” Thus complying that each and every day (24hr.period) began consecutively from ‘sunset to sunset’.

The Jewish authors of the New Testament and the Old Testament understood inclusively that this was the way and that the next Day period always began with night darkness and was followed by daylight in the morning. The night time hours were divided into 4 equal interval watches and the daylight time were divided into 12 equal hours. Thus the day was always determined and observed from ‘sunset to sunset’.

In regards to the timing of Passover the Jewish Historian Josephus (~70 A.D.) clarifies; ‘So the high priests, upon the coming of their feast which is called the Passover, when they slay their sacrifices, from the ninth hour till the eleventh, but so that a company not less then ten belong to every sacrifice, and many of us are twenty in a company.’ (Wars of the Jews 6:9:3) William Whiston. Here in a western reckoning of a time from about 3:00 p.m. to 5:00 pm. The Passover lamb would then be prepared for roasting over an open fire on the 14th of Nisan in the last (12th) hour with the day ending around 6:00 p.m. in preparation of the night time Seder to follow on the beginning of Nisan 15th. Here reads, Exodus 12:8; "And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.” KJV.

What you need to recognize is the word ‘Passover’ to a Jew was a loose - common term that was generally applied to the whole 8 day festival (e.g. like the 12 days of Christmas to a Christian).

The Jewish Pharisee Historian Josephus 70 A.D. clarifies with particular reference to the Passover period in several places as follows; “In the month of Xanthicus which is by us called Nisan…on the fourteenth day of the lunar month…every year slay the sacrifice…which was called the Passover…” and Josephus continues; “The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread…” (Antiquities of the Jews 3:10:5) William Whiston.

Josephus also asserted elsewhere; “As this happened at the time when the feast of unleavened bread was celebrated, which we call the Passover…” (Antiquities of the Jews 14:2:1) and “As the Jews were celebrating the feast of unleavened bread, which we call the Passover it was common for the priests…” (Antiquities of the Jews 18:2:2). William Whiston.

Consider as well; “They left Egypt in the month Xanthicus, on the fifteenth day of the lunar month; four hundred and thirty years after our fore-father Abraham came into Canann…” (Antiquities of the Jews 2:15:2) William Whiston.

St Paul’s wonderful statement; “Purge out therefore the old leaven that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For Christ are Passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.” (1 Corinthians 5:7,8) KJV.

These events were willfully commemorated (Nisan 15) and fulfilled by Jesus with his disciples at the last supper Passover ceremony 'On the first day of unleavened bread'- 'Protos Heemeras ' as described in Matthew 26:17,Mark 14:12,and Luke 22:7.

Greek Biblical exegesis is often formulated through the Interpreter’s preconceived theological beliefs.

On the difficult passages, exegesis often comes through sensible theological debate.

The Saturday Nisan 17th Sabbath resurrection scenario falls into a chronological arrangement of its own. A view shared by many believing that Jesus was crucified on the late afternoon (Passover Preparation) of Wednesday Nisan 14th fulfilling the conditional Sign of Jonah (MTH 12:39, 40 i.e. 3 days & 3 nights).

Here the big picture suggests interesting details; -The temple cleansing and upsetting of money changers (MRK 11:15) coincided on the weekly Sabbath of Nisan 10 (EX 12:3 i.e. day of procurement) four days prior to the Passover on Wednesday Nisan 14. However, buying and purchasing were totally prohibited on Sabbath days in stringent abidance to Jewish law. -Our Lord and disciples are denied (cut short) to have kept the ceremonial traditional Passover Seder which was customarily observed in the night at the beginning of Nisan 15th on the first day of unleavened bread (EX 12:8; MTH 26:17; MRK14:12; LUK 22:7). There the previously slain lamb was now (Nisan 15) then sacrificed (consecrated) by the Jews through oral (eaten) ingestion. * Note - The Synoptic Gospels all agree in the timing, however, the other setting as described in John 13:1 was nothing more then an anticipatory casual meal partaken on an earlier day prior to the feast. -The Sanhedrin’s uncustomary night-time judicial process along with 3 reproaches by Pilate (LUK 23:22) occurs within a narrow time line of 15 hours or less for the judgment - sentencing and crucifixion (MRK 15:25) of Jesus.

* Note - Some of these comments are in line with the traditional Friday (Nisan 14) crucifixion as well. There Jesus and his disciples travel on the Sabbath day (JHN 12:1) arriving in Bethany six days before the Friday Passover. However, Sabbath travel was imperatively limited in accordance to Jewish law.

In order to have the chronology put into a proper perspective, a more feasible time lines regarding the crucifixion and resurrection events are essential. Let us consider a median near the end of the Passover period. To acquire such a median let us re-consider a linguistic approach from the ORIGINAL Greek Texts for the resurrection verses at; Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; and John 20:1,19 of the New Testament.

In those verses we commonly find the Koine Greek phrase; 'μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων' which is transliterated 'mia ton Sabbaton' and is translated to literally mean; 'one of the Sabbaths'. As well, the phrase can be found similarly within other N.T. verses such as Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 . This phrase has been traditionally perceived, interpreted, and understood to read as ; the first day of the week or the first of Sabbaths. However, let us consider specifically the Koine Greek word 'σαββάτων' which is transliterated as 'Sabbaton' where the literal English rendering is translated as 'Sabbaths' and is plural of meaning in line with Greek Syntax rules.

In the key verse of Matthew 28:1 the word 'Sabbaton' appears twice in the same sentence and plural in meaning at both instances. The full sentence of Matthew 28:1 would render something like; "After the Sabbaths (plural) as it was lighting up on one of the Sabbaths (plural) Mary of Magdalene and the other Mary came to the tomb."

What could this possibly mean according to Greek Syntax without it being a contradiction to itself? Hence Matthew 28:1 may be describing details like ; After [post-late-end] the Sabbaths (plural) as it was lighting up (twi-light) on one (cardinal) of the ( par-titive genitive ) Sabbaths (plural)...... . A description that may pertain to a time interval when the Passover period was finished and had already completed e.g. End ( opse-adverbial ) the 2 High Sabbaths (Nisan 15 & 21 i.e. EX 12:16 ) of the Passover period onto a weekly Sabbath ( 1 0f 7 ) within the 50 day duration between Passover (from the sheaf offering LEV 23:11) leading up to Pentecost.

Here Jesus would die on Wednesday Nisan 20th the preparation day to Thursday Nisan 21 (Holy Convocation day) and would resurrect 3 days and 3 nights later (MTH 12:39, 40) on the weekend Sabbath of Saturday Nisan 23rd.This day being an integral Sabbath of a series of 7 complete weekly Sabbaths (LEV23:15, 16) with in the 50 day period. This group of weekly Sabbaths for that year should have been; Nisan 16th, Nisan23, Nisan30, Iyar 7, Iyar 14, Iyar21, and Iyar 28. Here Jesus resurrected on the 2nd weekly Sabbath with-in a group of 7 Sabbaths. Thus Pentecost arrives later on Sivan 6th the eighth weekly Sabbath after Passover simultaneous to the 50th day which would have been a rare celebrated occasion! * Here in this time table the 50 day omer count commences after the High (Annual) Passover Sabbath (Friday) of Nisan 15th (not after the weekend Sabbath) where both the sheaf offering (Saturday Nisan16th) and the day of Pentecost (Saturday Sivan 6th) coincide separately on weekend Sabbaths for that particular year.

A clear account by Historian Flavius Josephus (~70 A.D.) describes when the omer count commenced in his book ‘The Antiquities of the Jews’ book 3 chapter 10 paragraph 5 line 250 follows; “But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month (Nisan), they partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them.” William Whiston (i.e.LEV 23:11)

* The Greek Septuagint O.T. (~270 B.C.) clarifies when the Passover sheaf offering was offered in Leviticus 23: 11 ; "and he (the priest) shall lift up the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you. On the morrow (Nisan 16) of the first day (Nisan 15) the priest shall lift it up." Sir Charles Lee Brenton Lancelot.

* Note - This practice was regardless of whatever weekday the 16th of Nisan fell upon for each particular year. This practice has been the recognized view by Jews all along from the earliest days through the middle ages right up into modern times.

* To support this chronological hypothesis even further an important verse at St. Luke 6:1 strongly supports the idea that the author was in recognition of a series of Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost thus reading;

"And it came to pass on the second Sabbath after the first, that he went through the cornfields and his disciples plucked the ears of corn and did eat rubbing them in their hands." KJV.

This verse has created much debate amongst bible commentators as to what the 'second Sabbath after the first' could mean. In Adam Clarke's commentary we receive an analysis from him and some other various Commentators giving their explanations for this passage; [Quote]

"ενσαββατω δευτεροπρωτω, In the first Sabbath after the second." What does this mean? In answering this question, commentators are greatly divided. Dr. Whitby speaks thus: "After the first day of the passover, (which was a Sabbath, Exodus 12:16,) ye shall count unto you seven Sabbaths complete, Leviticus 23:15, reckoning that day for the first of the first week, which was therefore called δευτεροπρωτον, the first Sabbath from the second day of unleavened bread; (the 16th of the month;) the second was called δευτεροδευτερον, the second Sabbath from that day; and the third, δευτεροτριτον, the third Sabbath from the second day; and so on, till they came to the seventh Sabbath from that day, i.e. to the 49th day, which was the day of pentecost. "

"The mention of the seven Sabbaths, to be numbered with relation to this second day, answers all that Grotius objects against this exposition." WHITBY'S Notes.

"I think, with many commentators, that this transaction happened on the first Sabbath of the month Nisan; that is, after the second day of the feast of unleavened bread. We may well suppose that our Lord and his disciples were on their way from Jerusalem to Galilee, after having kept the passover." Bp. NEWCOME.

"The Vulgar Latin renders δευτεροπρωτον, secundoprimum, which is literal and right. We translate it, the second Sabbath after the first, which is directly wrong; for it should have been the first Sabbath after the second day of the passover. On the 14th of Nisan, the passover was killed; the next day (the 15th) was the first day of the feast of unleavened bread; the day following (the 16th) the wave sheaf was offered, pursuant to the law, on the morrow after the Sabbath: Leviticus 18:11. The Sabbath, here, is not the seventh day of the week, but the first day of the feast of unleavened bread, let it fall on what day of the week it would. That and the seventh day of that feast were holy convocations, and therefore are here called Sabbaths. The morrow, therefore, after the Sabbath, i.e. after the 16th day of Nisan, was the day in which the wave sheaf was offered; and after that seven Sabbaths were counted, and fifty days completed, and the fiftieth day inclusively was the day of pentecost."

"Now these Sabbaths, between the passover and pentecost, were called the first, second, Sabbaths after the second day of the feast of unleavened bread. This Sabbath, then, on which the disciples plucked the ears of corn, was the first Sabbath after that second day. Dr. Lightfoot, has demonstrably proved this to be the meaning of this σαββατονδευτεροπρωτον, (Hor. Hebraic. in locum,) and from him F. Lamy and Dr. Whitby have so explained it."

"This Sabbath could not fall before the passover, because, till the second day of that feast, no Jew might eat either bread or parched corn, or green ears, 23:14.) Had the disciples then gathered these ears of corn on any Sabbath before the passover, they would have broken two laws instead of one: and for the breach of these two laws they would infallibly have been accused; whereas now they broke only one, (plucking the ears of standing corn with one's hand, being expressly allowed in the law, Deuteronomy 23:25,) which was that of the Sabbath. They took a liberty which the law gave them upon any other day; and our Lord vindicated them in what they did now, in the manner we see. Nor can this fact be laid after pentecost; because then the harvest was fully in. Within that interval, therefore, this Sabbath happened; and this is a plain determination of the time, according to the Jewish ways of reckoning, founded upon the text of Moses's law itself."

Dr. WOTTON'S Miscellaneous Discourses,

"The word δευτεροπρωτω, the second first, is omitted by BL, four others, Syriac, later Arabic, all the Persic, Coptic, AEthiopic, and three of the Itala. A note in the margin of the later Syriac says, This is not in all copies. The above MSS. read the verse thus: It came to pass, that he walked through the corn fields on a Sabbath day. I suppose they omitted the above word, because they found it difficult to fix the meaning, which has been too much the case in other instances." [Quote]

* The 'high (great) Sabbath' of St John 19:31 (in relation over-all to this proposed chronology) could apply to the 7th final day (Holy Convocation) of the Passover period which occurred on a Thursday Nisan 21rst for that year. The final (7th) day of the Passover period that commemorated the Israelite’s deliverance from bondage in Egypt.

* Any day before a High Sabbath (Holy Convocation) day was regarded as a preparation day. The intermediate days on the Passover period in-between the High days or weekly Sabbaths were regarded as secular days, thus allowing time for regular activities such as buying and working (e.g. preparation of spices).

* The verse of Mark 16:9 in the original Greek shows ‘protos sabbatou’ which is translated literally to mean ‘first (ordinal) Sabbath (singular)’. The author here may be referring to the creation Sabbath as it was preeminent in nature for the seventh day weekly cycle of rest.

* The series of weekly Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost signified a moment in fulfillment of God’s promise for the freedom and liberty to all descendents with lineage of the ancestral fore-fathers on route to the Promised land.These Sabbaths may have been referred to by the Jews as the ‘Queen of Sabbaths’ which were spiritually embraced as a bride in reflection of God’s total fullness forth- coming.

* The Apocryphal Gospel of St. Peter at verse 12 is of reference to a moment in time after the crucifixion when the disciples were clearly in bereavement and the resurrection event had not yet been fulfilled;

“Now it was the last day of unleavened bread, and many went out of the city returning to their houses, the feast being at an end. And we the twelve disciples of the Lord wept and were in sorrow, and every man withdrew to his house sorrowing for that which had come to pass.” H.B. Swete.

* Jesus affirmed his position of authority;

“And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” (St. Mark 2:27, 28) KJV.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ecumenism; Theology
KEYWORDS: ib4tz; mia; sabbaton; ton
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To: Pmary65

The Epistle of the Emperor Constantine, Concerning the matters transacted at the Council (Nicea), addressed to those Bishops who were not present; [Quote]

Constantine Agustus to the churches;

“ I now procceed briefly to recapitulate the whole of the preceding. The judgement of all is, that the holy pascal feast should be held on one and the same day ; for, in so holy a matter, it is not right that difference of custom should prevail. It is the more commendable to obey this decree, because it precludes all association with error and with sin. This being the case, receive with gladness the heavenly gift and sacred command; for all that is transacted in the holy councils of the bishops, is sanctioned by the Divine will. Therefore, when you have made known to all our beloved brethren the subject of the epistle, you will be ‘bound to conform to the regular observance of this holy day’, so that when, according to my long cherished desire, I shall be with you, I may be able to celebrate with you this holy festival upon one and the same day…” [End Quote]

Reiterated by Theodoretus Bishop of Cyrus (387 C.E.~ 458 C.E.)
The Greek Ecclesiastical Historians of The First Six Centuries of The Christian Era. Book I Chapter X ‘Esuebius’s Life of Constantine’.


21 posted on 06/21/2009 7:05:38 PM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65

In regards to the actual timing of a Paschal – Last Supper event;

“So important is it to have a clear understanding of all that passed on that occasion, that at the risk of some repetition, we shall now attempt to piece together the notices in the various Gospels, adding to them again those explanations which have just been given in detail. At the outset we may dismiss, an unworthy of serious discussion, the theory, either that our Lord had observed the Paschal Supper at another than the regular time for it, or that St. John meant to intimate that He had partaken of it on the 13th instead of the 14th of Nisan.
To such violent hypothesis, which are wholly uncalled for, there is this one conclusive answer, that except on the evening of the 14th of Nisan, no Paschal lamb could have been offered in the temple, and therefore no Paschal Supper celebrated in Jerusalem.” [End Quote]

The Temple, Its Ministry and Services as they were At The Time Of Jesus Christ. (1874)
Chapter XII ‘The Paschal Feast And The Lord’s Supper, Rev. Dr. Alfred Edersheim


22 posted on 06/23/2009 8:53:24 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Jewbacca
I think the 8 days is from two different festivals. 1 - The Passover (1 day) and 2 - The feast of unleaven bread (7 days). the two have been combined into one observance called Passover.
23 posted on 06/23/2009 9:03:25 AM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: tang-soo

No, that is not correct.

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/283,164372/When-is-Passover.html


24 posted on 06/23/2009 9:18:39 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca

Dr. Edersheim’s comment on Pesach in the Temple day (before 68 A.D.) [Quote]

“The cycle of Temple-festivals appropriately opens with “the Passover” and “Feast of unleavened bread,” For, properly speaking, these two are quite distinct, the “Passover” taking place on the 14th of Nisan, and the “Feast of unleavened bread” commencing on the 15th, and lasting for seven days to the 21st of the month. But from their close connection they are generally treated as one, both in the Old and New Testament ; and Josephus, on one occasion, even describes it as “a feast for eight days.”
[End Quote]

The Temple, Its Ministry and Services as they were At The Time Of Jesus Christ. (1874)
Chapter XI ‘The Passover’ Rev. Dr. Alfred Edersheim


25 posted on 06/23/2009 6:59:16 PM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65

In Regards to the timing of the Pascal - Last Supper Event (continued);

“ In attempting an accurate chronology of these days (Pesach) it must always be remembered that the Passover was sacrificed between the evenings of the 14th and the 15th of Nisan ; that is, before the close of the 14th and the beginning of the 15th. The Paschal Supper, however took place on the 15th itself (that is according to Jewish reckoning – the day beginning as the first stars became visible).” [End Quote]

The Temple, Its Ministry and Services as they were At The Time Of Jesus Christ. (1874)
Chapter XI ‘The Passover, Rev. Dr. Alfred Edersheim


26 posted on 06/23/2009 7:16:41 PM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65

Don’t know who he is; I defer to actual Rabbis.


27 posted on 06/24/2009 7:15:43 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Pmary65

Many believers identify that ‘Christ our Passover’ and the ‘Lamb of God’ pertains directly to a crucifixion event occurring at a time when the Passover lambs were being slain. Many have linked the timing for Jesus crucifixion to the public sacrifice on the Passover late afternoon of Nisan 14th. It is not then any wonder then why Jesus last Passover supper occurring later on the first day of unleavened gets totally misconstrued. To them who think it essential that He be crucified while lambs were being slain consider that such activities were carried forward on a daily basis by the temple priests for each and every day of the Passover period.

Numbers 28: 16-25
3 And thou shalt say unto them, this is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering.
4 The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even;
16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be a holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
19 But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
20 And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
21 A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
22 And one goat for a sin offering, to make atonement for you.
23 Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
25 And on the seventh day ye shall have a holy convocation ye shall do no servile work.
KJV

We can see from Numbers 28:24 that a daily sacrifice of lambs were offered by temple priests on the whole seven days of the Passover period. Each day two young bullocks, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year, and one goat were sacrificed along with the daily sacrifice of two young lambs for the morning and the evening ritual. These sacrifices were inclusive for the full seven day duration of the Passover period.


28 posted on 06/25/2009 5:44:13 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Jewbacca

He was a well respected proselyte.


29 posted on 06/25/2009 6:22:46 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65

* Note – These 3 verses from Mark 15 (crucifixion day) must apply to a secular day where travelling ,work, and purchasing were acceptable;

21 And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross. KJV

42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, KJV

46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre. KJV

Such activities occurring on a Friday Nisan 15th (High Sabbath) would be next to impossible. However, these activities occurring on a Wednesday Nissan 20th (secular day) are quite probable.


30 posted on 06/28/2009 6:34:34 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65

The events of a Passover meal (a commemoration of the ‘Exodus’) in relation to the ‘Last Supper’ (the indoctrination of the New Covenant) appear simultaneous in the timing as the Gospels reveal. However there remains much debate amongst theologians as to when the actual timing of these events occurred. To remain objective let us refer to an earlier finding to support the later.

The Historian Josephus (~70 A.D.) gives an account of the great preparation leading up to the Exodus; [Quote]

“But when God had signified, that with one more plague he would compel the Egyptians to let the Hebrews go, he commanded Moses to tell the people that they should have a sacrifice ready, and they should prepare themselves on the tenth month Xanthicus, against the fourteenth (which month is called by the Egyptians Pharmuth, and Nisan by the Hebrews; but the Macedonians call it Xanthicus) and that he should carry away the Hebrews with all that they had. Accordingly, he having got the Hebrews ready for their departure, and having sorted the peoples into tribes, he kept them together in one place; but when the fourteenth day was come, and all were ready to depart, they offered the sacrifice, and purified their houses with the blood, using hyssop for that purpose; and when they had supped they burnt the remainder of the flesh, as just ready to depart.” [End-Quote] Antiquities of the Jews Book 2, Chapter 14, Paragraph 6. William Whiston

If Jesus last supper was a ‘genuine Passover Seder’ on the beginning of Nisan 14th as many purport how then was it a ritual commemorating the Israelites who ate it in haste (EX 12:11) before fleeing from Egypt on Nisan 15th?

“And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow of the Passover the children of Israel went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.” KJV – Numbers 33:3

Why would the Israelites in Moses time have to wait around for at least 24 hours after eating a meal on the beginning of Nisan 14th before departing from Egypt on the next day of Nisan 15th?

“Observe the month of Abib (Nisan), and keep the Passover unto the Lord thy God; for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.” Deuteronmy 16:1 KJV

The verse says; ‘ out of Egypt by night’ thus indicating a most precarious time when darkness and moonlight was upon them.

If the Israelites in Moses time did eat the Passover meal in the beginning Of Nisan 14th (as many theologians persist) then it should stand to reason that they could have departed ‘in haste’ (fully assembled-fully prepared) that very night shortly afterwards. However, the Bible account and Josephus account clearly agree together that the Israelites left in the night of Nisan 15th some short time later after eating the meal.
Likewise our Lord’s last Passover meal was kept on the beginning of Nisan 15th. That day known as a high annual Sabbath (signified Israel’s departure from Egypt) or a ‘Yom Tov” (Hebrew) meaning as ‘Good Day’ which became traditionally known as ‘Good Friday’. Good not because Jesus died on that day (sic). Think about it. What is good about someone being crucified to death? It was good because an invocation by our Lord Jesus was offered and made to all in his last intimate shared moments where the alloted elements at that table were combined and consecrated into a life eternal giving sustenance.

The timing of the events that unfolded after that became immeasurable. One account indicates a prior intention to not press matters against Jesus ‘Not on a feast Day’ as noted in Matthew 26:5 and Mark 14:2. However, another account at Mark 15:6 and Luke 23:17 shows that the crucifixion moment did succumb to being ‘ON A FEAST DAY’ within the Passover period.
Over the years I have become aware of the various positions by theologians as to ‘WHEN’ the last supper, the crucifixion, and the resurrection moments occurred. Opinions and beliefs are strongly divided. Church official authorities opt to a more passive stance admitting that such historical details to this day remain a ‘mystery’. But all in all, it eventually all boils down to; ‘Does it really matter?’ I suppose the most over-looked point here is the most important one of all and that is; ‘Why’? Why did these important events regardless of when they happened as shown from are history did come to pass? What remains significant from those events that has carried us on through the ages in to a modern day existence with a stake of it in our own individual lifes? Only you can answer that question, the answer is in your heart. You have your choice and I have mine.


31 posted on 06/30/2009 8:30:43 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65
* Note- The phrase ‘the first day of the week’ could have appeared as; ‘της πρώτο ημέρα του εβδομάδα’ in the Greek for the verses of; Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, St. John 20:1,19; Acts 20:7, and 1 Corinthians 16:2 in the New Testament but does not appear anywhere in any way, shape or form. The word ‘εβδομάδας’ in the Greek for ‘week’ does appear respectively in the Septuagint Old Testament in; EX 34:22; LEV 23:15, 16, 25; NUM 28:26; DEUT 16:9, 10, 16; II CHRON 8:13, and Daniel 9:24,25, 26, 27; 10:2, 3.
32 posted on 07/13/2009 7:40:38 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65
Note- The phrase ‘the first day of the week’ could have appeared as; ‘της πρώτο ημέρα του εβδομάδα’ in the Greek for the verses of; Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, St. John 20:1,19; Acts 20:7, and 1 Corinthians 16:2 in the New Testament but does not appear anywhere in any way, shape or form.

That's because the entire idea of a Sunday morning resurrection is simply so much "Hogwash"!

I've always wondered why the proponents of this false doctrine (read Catholic) didn't try and come up with a better reason for shunning the Sabbath and establishing Sunday as the official day of worship. Their claim for a Sunday resurrection is so easily disproved.

They fooled the Protestants as well.....and even the Mormons got right in step with this "Tom Foolery".

33 posted on 07/13/2009 2:53:24 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Pmary65
I have a substantial artile on Diego's point here: http://www.torahtimes.org/Sabbaton_Week_Sabbaths.html .... The development of the Greek term for Sabbath started from the Aramaic term for Sabbath, which was שַׁבְּתָא (shabbta). This was transliterated as σαββατα. Then at some later point שַבָּתוֹן was cleverly transliterated as σαββατων and σαββατον. By this method σαββατων came to be employed both in the singular sense of "sabbatism" שַבָּתוֹן, and in the plural sense of שַבָּתוֹת. So σαββατων is a literal Greek translation of שַבָּתוֹת, but as a translation of שַבָּתוֹן, it is a Hebraism, or loan word. ....
34 posted on 07/13/2009 7:43:41 PM PDT by Daniel Gregg
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To: Langel

If you study comparitive religions and how cults arise, you will find that the process is based on power and ability to deceive and not logic or history. That’s what happens to the human race. Just look at how speedily ancient Israel abandoned the law of YHWH in a kind of cyclic manner. Do you really think guilty people want their children to remember what they apostacized away from? Hardly, so future generations of the church are left in ignorance. In any case, its not hopeless. God has prevented a total destruction of the evidence.


35 posted on 07/13/2009 7:48:20 PM PDT by Daniel Gregg
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To: Pmary65
Pmary65, I don't know if you read all the posts in that thread on translatium. There I explained the reason for the Gender conflict as follows: Daniel007 Newbie Online Posts: 16 My reply on that forum: The usual Greek phrase for Sabbath day is: ἡμέρᾳ τῶν σαββάτων (Luke 4:16). What I see is that you make a proper point. The word "day" is implied by the feminine word for "one". So the result is: τῇ μιᾷ [ἡμέρᾳ] τῶν σαββάτων = the first Sabbath [day] or "One [day] of the Sabbaths" It appears that this is simply the usual phrase for the sabbath day with the word "first" or "one" put on the front. While "one" must agree with "day", it is obvious that "day" does not have to agree in either number or gender with "sabbaths". So, I fail to see how this gender argument makes "sabbaths" mean "week", since the gender clash is already in the usual phrase for the Sabbath day. You make the point that "first of the Sabbaths" requires the Greek ordinal number πρῶτοv . This is is probably so in Modern Greek to Byzantine Greek, but the Gospels reflect a Hebrew or Aramaic idiom where the word "echat" or "echad" means both "one" and "first". This point was made by John Calvin in his commentaries on these passages. He even thought that Acts 20:7 refered to the Sabbath and cited John Chrysostom as having the same opinion. I have been unable to find Calvin's source on Chrysostom. It would be possible to take this one step further. The phrase is a pure semiticism for "Echat ha- shabbattot" (first of the Sabbaths), because the word "Echat" is feminine to agree with "Shabbatot" (Hebrew fem. plural for 'sabbaths"). It would seem then that the phrase "first of the Sabbaths" was borrowed into Greek from a Hebrew or Aramaic designation for the first of the seven Sabbaths mentioned in Leviticus 23:15. If you have any sources other than the resurrection passages or Acts 20:7, 1Cor. 16:2, or Luke 18:12 which would show an unambiguous meaning of "week" for "Sabbath" inside the first century, I'd like to know about it. I read an article by E. Vogt --it's in German in Biblica. He denies that 'sabbath' meant week. Also, C.S. Mann in the Anchor Bible of Matthew questiones it. The Catholic Encyclopedia suggests that "Shabbat" was confused with "Sheba" (seven) early on by the Church. I understand your argument from the point of view of "pure Greek", but I think the semitic influence needs to be accounted for. Daniel.
36 posted on 07/13/2009 8:01:13 PM PDT by Daniel Gregg
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To: Diego1618

Yeah,
Ignorance is bliss like mushrooms in the dark.


37 posted on 07/14/2009 4:09:27 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Daniel Gregg

Hello Daniel,
I like your approach on this matter. Your comments are like music to our ears! You’ve really narrowed it down. Your points are well taken.
The refinement of certain words from earlier findings may cast a clearer light to aid us in a better overall understanding. Sure we would like to get to the bottom of all of this. However, the historical path behind us is not an easy one to back track, remedy or compromise.
- Best Regards!


38 posted on 07/14/2009 5:32:44 AM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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To: Pmary65; Daniel Gregg; Langel; D Rider
“ In attempting an accurate chronology of these days (Pesach) it must always be remembered that the Passover was sacrificed between the evenings of the 14th and the 15th of Nisan ; that is, before the close of the 14th and the beginning of the 15th. The Paschal Supper, however took place on the 15th itself (that is according to Jewish reckoning – the day beginning as the first stars became visible).” [End Quote]

[Genesis 1:3-5] 3 And God said, Let there be light (OWR): and there was light (OWR). 4 And God saw the light (OWR), that it was good: and God divided the light (OWR) from the darkness (CHOSHEK). 5 And God called the light (OWR) Day (YOWM), and the darkness (CHOSHEK) he called Night (LAYIL). And the evening and the morning were the first day (YOWM). God divided light (OWR) from darkness (CHOSHEK). The light (OWR) was called day (YOWM). The darkness (CHOSHEK) was called night (LAYIL).

You've touched on something here that is not too clear to some folks and I would like to offer my thoughts. "Beyn ha Arbayim".....Between the evenings. As you can see by the above scripture evening and morning are part of the day (YOWM); verse 5. Evening is not part of the night.....at least to Moses and the Hebrews it wasn't. Of course to us in the 21st century evening is now part of the night as it was also part of the night time to the King James translators.

"Beyn ha Arbayim". This was the term used to designate when the Passover was to be killed. Here are the Biblical definitions for the Hebrew.

Beyn: (sometimes in the plural masculine or feminine); properly, the constructive form of an otherwise unused noun from 'biyn' ; a distinction; but used only as a prep, between (repeated before each noun, often with other particles); also as a conjunction, either...or:--among, asunder, at, between (-twixt...and), + from (the widest), X in, out of, whether (it be...or), within. ha: simply means "the". Arbayim: from '`arab' ; dusk:--+ day, even(-ing, tide), night.

Between the Evenings/Beyn ha Arbayim. Arbayim is a dual word designated by the "ayim" on the tail end and means more than one. Ereb is the singular and the first time this word appears in scripture is [Genesis 1:5] "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (singular) and the morning were the first day." As discussed earlier.....evening and morning were part of the daylight portion of the daily cycle. Morning was from sunrise to high noon and noon itself was the first evening. The second evening was sunset but the entire time from noon to sunset was called "Evening".....or as the KJV translators said...."Even".. The reason God started the daily cycle with darkness was because that's what appeared first.....darkness (verse 2).

Morning refers to the part of the day when the light is growing and evening refers to the part of the day when the light is receding. So, God designates a complete day as, from sunrise to sunset. Day and night together form the 24 hour period we now (also the KJV translators) call a completed day.

1. King James [Exodus 12:6] "And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening." (Translators using the singular here have caused much confusion).

2. Young's Literal Translation [Exodus 12:6] "'And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings;" (Between noon and sunset)

3. Hebrew Tanakh [Exodus 12:6] " wəhāyâ lāḵem ləmišəmereṯ ‘aḏ ’arəbā‘â ‘āśār ywōm l^a ḥōḏeš hazzeh wəšāḥăṭû ’ōṯwō kōl qəhal ‘ăḏaṯ-yiśərā’ēl bên hā‘arəbāyim:"

Above is the Hebrew....of course, expressed in English script to see and understand.

Young's is a good translation in that they faithfully attempt to translate literally. Sometimes because of syntax and idioms it is difficult to understand but they really do make an honest attempt.....as you can see.

Let's go ahead and list the other scriptures in which you find "Beyn ha Arbayim.....Between the Evenings".

[Exodus 16:12] "I have heard the murmurings of the sons of Israel; speak unto them, saying, Between the evenings ye eat flesh, and in the morning ye are satisfied with bread, and ye have known that I am Jehovah your God."

[Exodus 29:39] "the one lamb thou dost prepare in the morning, and the second lamb thou dost prepare between the evenings;

"[Exodus 29:41] " And the second lamb thou dost prepare between the evenings; according to the present of the morning, and according to its libation, thou dost prepare for it, for sweet fragrance, a fire-offering, to Jehovah:"

[Exodus 30:8] "and in Aaron's causing the lamps to go up between the evenings, he doth perfume it; a continual perfume before Jehovah to your generations."

[Leviticus 23:5] "in the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the passover to Jehovah;"

[Numbers 9:3] "in the fourteenth day of this month between the evenings ye prepare it in its appointed season; according to all its statutes, and according to all its ordinances ye prepare it."

[Numbers 9:5] "and they prepare the passover in the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the evenings, in the wilderness of Sinai; according to all that Jehovah hath commanded Moses, so have the sons of Israel done."

[Numbers 9:11] "in the second month, on the fourteenth day, between the evenings they prepare it; with unleavened and bitter things they eat it;"

[Numbers 28:4] "the one lamb thou preparest in the morning, and the second lamb thou preparest between the evenings;

[Numbers 28:8] "'And the second lamb thou dost prepare between the evenings; as the present of the morning, and as its libation thou preparest -- a fire-offering, a sweet fragrance to Jehovah."

Now.....between the evenings would be at 3:00 P.M. or thereabouts. This was when the evening sacrifice took place and most folks think nowadays that means it occurred at night time. Here are some scriptures that will indicate when the "Evening" sacrifice actually happened: [Acts 3:1][Acts 10:3][Acts 10:30]. Here are scriptures that show when Our Lord's sacrifice took place: Matthew 27:45-46][Mark 15:33-34][Luke 23:44]. The Hebrews began counting their hours at sunrise....so the ninth hour would be 3:00 P.M.

The proof verse that explains what evening really means is [Deuteronomy 16:6] " But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt."

At the first evening (High Noon) the sun is directly overhead. As it progresses to the second evening (Sunset) what does the sun do? It begins to go down, gets lower in the sky....and finally about six hours later it sets.....goes below the horizon. Do you see how we need to know how the Hebrews thought about things before we can understand thoroughly what the scriptures are really saying?

As you read the New Testament and reflect on the crucifixion you'll now know why Our Lord had to die......between the evenings........3:00 P.M. on the 14th of the first month [Leviticus 23:5].

39 posted on 07/14/2009 6:41:30 PM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

“As you read the New Testament and reflect on the crucifixion you’ll now know why Our Lord had to die......between the evenings........3:00 P.M. on the 14th of the first month [Leviticus 23:5].”

In reference to your statement of chronology; did Jesus and the disciples eat ‘unleavened bread’ at the last supper setting the night before the crucifixion?


40 posted on 07/15/2009 4:08:36 PM PDT by Pmary65 (one of the Sabbaths)
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