Posted on 05/07/2007 5:56:50 AM PDT by NYer
NEW YORK - For a glimpse into the future of the Roman Catholic Church in America, peek inside St. Benedict's in Queens on a Sunday after the Matsons, Mays and Cassidys have all gone home and Joan Overton has shut down the pipe organ following the sparsely attended 8:30 a.m. Mass. That's when the pews fill up with the Durans, Lopezes and Fernandezes and the spiritual thermometer turns up a notch.
"Everyone on their feet!" cried Gladys Cardenas, a stout and fiery Puerto Rican, as a band struck up behind her. "Come on," she shouted in Spanish. "Get ready to celebrate God!"
On cue, Monsignor John O'Brien emerged in brilliant white robes for the 10 a.m. charismatic Mass -- the most popular in a parish where attendance has declined for every other Sunday service. As the band played a hymn tinged with a merengue beat, Aurora Duran, an 82-year-old Dominican, fell to her knees in throaty "hallelujahs." A man in the front row lifted his hands toward the heavens and began to speak in tongues. Shouts of "Glory!" and "Christ lives!" echoed through the church.
Such scenes were once rarely witnessed in any language inside U.S. Catholic churches, long known for relatively solemn celebrations that eschew the more vivacious religious devotion of evangelical Protestantism. But as waves of Latin American immigrants alter the fabric of life in much of the United States, they are leaving one of their biggest imprints on the Roman Catholic Church.
Their arrival is reinvigorating the U.S. Catholic Church's charismatic movement, which had been in decline since peaking in the 1980s.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Rather than representing a shift in the articles of faith, analysts say, charismatic Catholicism is transforming the nature of devotion and putting new emphasis on "personal experiences" with God. The Catholic Church has traditionally used its clergy as the conduits of divine interpretation, but increasingly, charismatic Catholics are being energized by lay ministers in small prayer groups and are employing methods such as speaking in tongues as independent and direct spiritual channels.
I don't imagine these folks would be attracted to the TLM ;-)
“charismatic Catholicism”, has passed about 20 years ago.
Sounds loke their approach to mass is similar to their approach to their movies, very noisy and theatrical.
I have mixed feelings about the “charismatic movement,” which for better or for worse did not pass away but is still very much with us, especially in areas where Protestant Pentecostalism is strong, such as the South (where I live). Latin Americans responded to Liberation Theology by leaving the Church in droves, and most of them went to the Prostant Pentecostals that were scattered throughout Lat Am, which is why there are so many Hispanics in the movement.
The Catholic Charismatic movement got them back to the Church, but I often find charismatics - whether Hispanic or non-Hispanic - a very disturbing group. They are anti-intellectual, given to emotional experiences which they interpret as divine graces of some sort, and seem to set up as sort of cults within the Church. We have some (non-Hispanic) charismatics here who spend all their time having “healings” at healing masses, looking for different people to lay hands on them, and basically seeking sensations. Some of them are, quite frankly, wacky.
Yet at the same time, there are some who do this but are very loyal to the Pope, aren’t interested in doctrine or learning themselves but don’t reject it, and do not wave their hands around at Mass waiting to be “slain in the Spirit.”
So my opinion is very mixed.
Incidentally, I think TLM would go over just fine with many Hispanics, although the charismatically oriented ones would continue to have their extra-liturgical prayer services. I think the latter are fine and even something we need more of - as long as they’re supervised and kept orthodox by somebody who knows enough to do so.
Before I got to this comment I said to my self thank God I get to go to a TLM.
Once again, they seem to be presenting a local demographic shift as a trend in the Catholic Church as a whole.
Excellent points, irrespective of the national origin of the parties.
I have no problem with Charismatic Catholics as long as it does not become the mainstream, taking away the historically Catholic Holy Mass. That is what happened in my area. Holding and lifting hands for the Our Father, happy lilting modern music are the norm at the parishes in my area.
Except my parish.
And that is why other parishes are closing and clustering while we are growing by leaps and bounds. We are the only parish in our Vicariate with six Holy Masses on Sundays. And each is overflowing our church.
This Sunday is my daughter’s First Holy Communion. We got four tickets for seats. There are two Holy Masses to accomodate all the children. Huge ceremonies, all the smells and bells. Because of Grandparents and Godparents, neither myself nor my older daughter will have seats (Dad will Usher). Do I mind? A little, but I am very blessed to be at a parish where we can fill the church, so life is good!
My parish had four First Communion Masses this past weekend. Poor old Father Hawker was exhausted by Sunday evening; he was holding on to the altar to stay upright!
Congratulations on your daughter’s Big Event! We don’t have a First Communicant this year, but will have Sally next year and probably Pat the following year, since he’s already been bumped up to 1st Grade.
Two thoughts on this:
1) This is partially a tactic prevent the loss to the Pentacostals that we see in some South American Countries.
2) I’ve been to Spanish Masses and they look nothing like this description, the only real difference is that the Spanish Language is better for prayer than English, Extraordinary Ministers seem rarer and the Music is a bit more upbeat....which in my experience tends to be about 99% Marian. Yes, different but I don’t get a sense that it lacks reverence, unlike the Soupy Masses with women in Pantsuits distributing Communion and singing everyone’s favorite Gay Catholic Anthem “Here I am Lord”
My personal feeling is that people are attracted to your type of parish. The most orthodox priest we have here in my parish, who celebrates as much as he can in Latin (NO) and does things right, has by far the biggest crowds at his masses. People want that.
I think the problem in other parishes is not so much the flat out charismatics, but that there was a sort of “bleed over” of vaguely charismatic practices (i.e., sentimental, non-liturgical and sloppy) practices into the Mass. Of course, in many places, this was probably an improvement over the true sacrileges that occurred in the 1970’s and 80s or thereabouts.
I think if the MP goes through (which I am beginning to doubt) and a Tridentine Rite mass is offered in my parish, along with good preaching and things like more available Confession, we’re going to be truly amazed by how many people come out of the woodwork for it.
Where is St. Benedict’s?
Where is St. Benedict’s? I thought Catholics were declining in Queens.
I don’t know what’s worse, the uptight austere Catholicism brought here by the Paddy Whackers, or the foot stomping hillbilly Catholicism of the Central Americans.
I agree, first of all, they don’t seem to realize how vast the Church is, and second, I live in a predominately hispanic area and there is no Mass like this. Most of them go to the same Masses as we do unless they don’t speak English, then they go to the Spanish Mass which is just like our Mass, only in Spanish.
I go to Mass in Spain, and believe me, nobody holds hands there, you rarely see a female altar server, there are no EEMs, etc. And there are, contrary to what the press says, lots of people in church and they’re not all old ladies.
It’s still the NO, but the translation is much better, and generally the celebration is much better, too. I have noticed the same thing with Spanish masses in the US. Many of them are fine and nothing weird goes on, and the Spanish translation is better.
Sometimes they are unfortunately tinged with charismatic flavor or too much folksiness, but I bet in most cases that is what the usually non-Hispanic pastor and his generally non-Hispanic, generally female “liturgist” condescendingly feel is appropriate for Hispanics.
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No. This is not the future of the Catholic Church, here or in Rome.
The Irish have always been lousy on music. German Catholics had a much better musical tradition, and were becoming very influential in musical circles. I think things would have improved enormously if VatII had not come along and nipped the liturgical reform movement in the bud (basically solving the problem by doing away with the liturgy altogether!).
Agreed. The only folks with worse music than the Irish are the Chinese, who are also the only people with worse dancing than the Irish as well.
Back before VatII, there used to be many things referred to as “paraliturgical” ceremonies, such as devotions, etc. celebrated in the church. I think the Mass should be the Mass, and people should do other group prayer things in separate services, if that appeals to them. I run the other direction whenever anybody wants to give me a big warm hug and tell me how much the Lord has done for them, but I realize there are people who like that and it’s fine - just not at Mass, please!
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