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Sanders and Trump: Two Peas in a Pod?
Townhall.com ^ | April 19, 2015 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 08/19/2015 6:54:19 AM PDT by Kaslin

A new chapter in American politics has begun.

Millions of Americans on the right and left have lost faith in their political parties, their government and even the economic system. Only 1 in 4 Americans are satisfied with the way things are going.

Policy experts will offer various arguments why at least some of these people are wrong to feel this way, but the discontented will not tolerate arguments that amount to "don't believe your lying eyes – or wallets." In politics, feelings are more important than hard numbers.

Consider immigration. I still believe that immigration is a net benefit for America, but those benefits aren't felt uniformly throughout society. Obviously, immigration is a huge boon to the immigrants themselves, something nobody disputes. Employers, whether in the tech sector or in agriculture, also reap disproportionate rewards. But for the typical consumer, the positive effects (cheaper food, construction, software, etc.) are hard to tie to the causes (the importation of cheaper labor).

Meanwhile, the negative effects seem all too apparent, at least for many Americans. This is true not just for people who believe, accurately or not, that their wages are lower and jobs are more scarce because of immigration (legal and illegal), but also for people who dislike the cultural disruptions that come with millions of non-English-speaking migrants pouring into the country.

Similarly, free trade has been an enormous boon to American consumers, but it doesn't feel like it, particularly to the workers who lost good jobs they'll never replace.

Add in the very understandable impression that the government is lying about – and incompetent at – taking these problems seriously, and you have the perfect preconditions for a populist backlash. And that's exactly what we are seeing.

On the left, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is unapologetic about his socialist views. He offers a searing indictment of modern capitalism and vows to "transform" the country.

On the right, Donald Trump, the GOP front-runner, is equally unapologetic about, well, everything, but in particular his nationalism. He lacks the vernacular of your standard nationalist, but the message comes through. He boasts that he is "the most militaristic person" in the world. His favorite national security idea is to build a wall – and to punitively make Mexico pay for it. His second favorite idea is to use the U.S. military to take Middle Eastern oil at gunpoint (30 years ago, he wanted to seize Iranian oil; now it's Iraq's oil where it's under the control of Islamic State).

In his just-released immigration plan, which is not the joke many of its critics claim, one of his core principles reads: "A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans."

The first part is nonsense. A great many nations do not serve their own citizens; no one would seriously argue that North Korea or Panama aren't nations. But the second part taps into a very real perception about the moment we are in. Millions of people are convinced that the system is rigged against them. We constantly hear that income inequality is our greatest problem, and yet the Democrats insist there is essentially no downside to ever more poor people coming here legally or illegally. Republicans concede that illegal immigration is a problem, but they have proven feckless at fixing it.

What is fascinating is that though Sanders and Trump couldn't be more different culturally, their programs overlap a great deal. "What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy," Sanders said recently. "Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that." Trump's immigration paper states that "real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first – not wealthy globe-trotting donors."

Trump has said that there's little daylight between them on the issue of trade, while Sanders has praised Trump's favorable statements on single-payer health care.

The establishments of both parties have proved pitifully inept in fending off their respective nationalist and socialist insurgencies. I suspect they'll eventually succeed. But I also suspect this is not the end of the challenge, merely the beginning.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2016election; berniesanders; donaldtrump; immigration; jonahgoldberg; sanders

1 posted on 08/19/2015 6:54:19 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Jonah shows his true elitist red-tinged colors.


2 posted on 08/19/2015 7:06:31 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (This entire "administration" has been a series of Reischstag Fires. We know how that turned out!)
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To: Kaslin
The establishments of both parties have proved pitifully inept in fending off their respective nationalist and socialist insurgencies. I suspect they'll eventually succeed. But I also suspect this is not the end of the challenge, merely the beginning.

Insurgencies? Sanders' and Trump's views largely mirror wide swaths of the bases of their respective parties. And what is very interesting is that both Sanders and Trump focus on the damage massive immigration, both legal and illegal, has inflicted on the economic well-being of the lower and middle classes in this country.

This is not insurgency, it is an attempt of reclaiming the political process from those who sold us down the river long ago and continue to profit handsomely from it. Which is why the establishment in both parties are fighting against it so hard.

3 posted on 08/19/2015 7:07:12 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Kaslin

I don’t think North Korea is a nation. It is a scary hellhole that was divided artificially. So Trump is right. And since when has the word “patriotism” been supplanted by the problematic word “nationalism”? I notice this more and more.


4 posted on 08/19/2015 7:08:19 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: I'd like to drive away not only the Turks (moslims) but all my foes.")
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To: miss marmelstein

Excellent point


5 posted on 08/19/2015 7:10:41 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin
On the left, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont is unapologetic about his socialist views. He offers a searing indictment of modern capitalism and vows to "transform" the country.

I think the present sometimes inhabitant of the White House has already done much to transform the country.

6 posted on 08/19/2015 7:17:12 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: miss marmelstein
Good catch. I had to look them up because it would be easy to interchange the two. Here is George Orwell's take on it, written in 1945:

By "nationalism" I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled "good" or "bad." But secondly -- and this is much more important -- I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests. Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By "patriotism" I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseperable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
(source: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html)
7 posted on 08/19/2015 7:20:13 AM PDT by tenger (Trump vs. Sanders would certainly be entertaining)
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To: Kaslin

Jonah is the son of Lucianne Goldberg....gossip was her thing in life...and she was classy at it and good....however Jonah doesn’t have the class that his mother has, he’s just plain stupid....so there-in are his articles...


8 posted on 08/19/2015 7:22:46 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 ("It's the hard working, tax paying citizens of the United States that are suffering...")
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To: HarleyLady27

I know that he is the son of Lucianne Goldberg, who btw used to be a Freeper, but he writes opinions and has a right to his opinions, just as you and I have a right to ours


9 posted on 08/19/2015 7:36:43 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: tenger

Orwell hits it out of the park again! Patriotism is soft, nationalism is hard and controlling.


10 posted on 08/19/2015 7:40:48 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: I'd like to drive away not only the Turks (moslims) but all my foes.")
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To: Kaslin
and his opinions stinks....
11 posted on 08/19/2015 7:47:36 AM PDT by HarleyLady27 ("It's the hard working, tax paying citizens of the United States that are suffering...")
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To: Kaslin

Holy Crap Batman! Jonah has gone over the deep end.


12 posted on 08/19/2015 8:15:35 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: HarleyLady27
...he’s just plain stupid....so there-in are his articles...

Have you read his book Liberal Fascism?

Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t gonna resign.




13 posted on 08/19/2015 8:38:23 AM PDT by rdb3 (What did you dream? It's alright, we told you what to dream!)
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To: Kaslin
Well, they're both populists and there's very little difference between a left-wing populist and a right-wing one, although I'm not sure I'd call Trump right wing or conservative in any way. What a populist does is deflect the populace from the real issues, pick a symbolic villain that they know is unpopular (China in the case of Sanders, Mexico in the case of Trump) and rev up the crowd by promising to be the only ones who will strike a mortal blow to this new enemy, regardless of the legality or even possibility of doing so.

Hitler did the same thing: the Jews were responsible for all of Germany's problems, and he was the only one who was going to deal with the "Jewish problem." Stalin blamed the kulaks, that is, tradesman peasants who constituted the middle class, and he was the only one who could deal with them.

Neither Trump nor Sanders has that potential because, for one thing, neither of them has a political party behind them, but they're certainly distracting in a big way, thanks to the media and push polling, from candidates on the right who are offering real solutions to real problems, and also are distracting from Hillary's very serious situation and the fact that, other than nutty Bernie, the Dem party has no candidates.

14 posted on 08/19/2015 8:44:32 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius
not sure I'd call Trump right wing or conservative in any way

That is the question of the day!

What is inside? Is there a there, there?

15 posted on 08/19/2015 9:35:13 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (BINGO!)
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To: dirtboy
Which is why the establishment in both parties are fighting against it so hard.

Keeping in mind what David Horowitz once said about the establishments of both the Wall Street wing of the GOP and the left wing of the Democratic Party:

"It all comes together at the top."

16 posted on 08/19/2015 11:58:49 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("If America was a house , the Left would root for the termites." - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: All

By adopting the tactic of the left in using the term ‘immigration’ as if there is no difference between legal and illegal entry into the US, Goldberg lost what little credibility he had with me.


17 posted on 08/19/2015 12:24:07 PM PDT by pluvmantelo (My hope for America died 11-06-12.)
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