Posted on 09/09/2014 9:52:55 AM PDT by Kaslin
Look Thackney, doubling up shifts means you pay guys on the second and third shift the same money, and the job gets done faster. You get people who need a job and agree to those terms.
Who would pay for it? The same people that would pay for it anyway, if the job took three times longer.
Because the oil/gas industry has no lack of qualified people at this time? You don't understand how difficult it has been for a couple years to get enough qualified people for any large project.
You also are assuming that there is no change in cost. That is false. I've worked a couple 24/7 emergency rebuilds. It does not get done on a one to one scale any more than three pregnant women can have one baby in three months.
You are assuming fabrication, delivery of materials and engineered equipment all can happen three times as fast.
Again, if it could be done without cost, it would already be done. These companies don't spend billions of dollars waiting years for a single dollar in return for no reason at all. Do you really believe all of us people who run projects are stupid?
By the way, just to show we want the same thing, I’m all in favor of speeding up the overdone environmental review and public comment period for these projects. Way over done...
If I may, to give some example of the scale of the LNG export projects:
On February 23rd, 2011, Freeport LNG held an open house meeting at its terminal administration building, and the following day, another meeting was held in Lake Jackson at the Cherotel to introduce the public and stakeholders to the proposed liquefaction project. The open house meetings were well attended by landowners, residents and other interested parties.
http://www.freeportlng.com/Open_House_Meetings.asp
This was after they had done significant amount of work, conceptual engineering to decide they wanted to proceed with the project.
Construction is beginning this year. The process units are divided into three sections with staggered start/completion dates. The first unit will not be operational until 2018, the last should be completed during the following year.
http://www.freeportlng.com/Project_Status.asp
Thackney, the industry doesn’t normally run three shifts, so don’t come at me with the idiotic comment that if more shifts would be done if it could be. That’s nonsense and we both know it.
When we had our earthquakes out here in the 90s, we had many overpasses collapse. It was stated that we couldn’t get the job done for years. They went on triple shifts and the jobs did get done. The jobs were done by bid, and the jobs didn’t cost us an arm and a leg to get done. And guess what, people who hadn’t worked in the industry before, did a great job.
In the oil industry, not every person has to be a former or current worker in the industry. Those that have experience can supervise the rest. Those terminals have a lot of grunt work that needs to be done too.
Why don’t you be a little more realistic with your responses? You flat out refusal to admit shifts could be added and the job completed sooner is transparent.
Shipments can be increased. Supplies can be delivered it the daytime to be used on the other shifts.
All it takes is a matter of planning and follow through.
Yes, there are probably things that I don’t understand and you do. I still think we live in the land of ingenuity, and when a big need comes up, we can surprise ourselves.
I simply do not believe nothing could be done to speed up the process.
I’m sure they are. And in this instance, the agencies involved should contribute to expediting the process and making sure the job gets done as quickly as possible.
This may in fact help you guys, if you bought into the process. Some red tape could be rushed through under the proper circumstances.
Thank you for the links.
My point is I'm willing to cede Putin anything where he'll stop ISIS from spreading. And Europe should be, too. The EU has a horrific problem with Jihadists doing Europe. I just don't get why they wouldn't want Putin there to protect the eastern flank.
It isn't normally done because there is significant cost to do so. I have been part of projects that run that way due to emergencies. It is not that it cannot be done, it is not done because of the expense.
They went on triple shifts and the jobs did get done. The jobs were done by bid, and the jobs didn’t cost us an arm and a leg to get done.
If you think there wasn't completion time bonus that paid the expense, you are uninformed.
In the oil industry, not every person has to be a former or current worker in the industry.
But if you are going to weld on pressurized piping systems or work any of dozens of other specific skill required jobs, you are going to need to be experienced. We don't have a real shortage of the guys using shovels. But have 3 times those but not the welders doesn't really help.
Why don’t you be a little more realistic with your responses?
My response are based upon real work for a couple decades in the industry. Not just wishful thinking.
Shipments can be increased.
Yes, on several projects I've had to pay for expedited delivery. It had a cost.
All it takes is a matter of planning and follow through.
Yeah, we never do that. Those refinery turn-arounds where we work 24/7 for weeks or months just happen.
when a big need comes up, we can surprise ourselves.
Absolutely. We can and we do. But the expectation that additional effort, bigger crews, more leadership all happen for free is silly.
Do you honestly believe we don't want to speed the process up, regardless of what is happening in Russia and Europe?
You complete the job one year earlier than you had projected. You pay a lot more to do so.
Guess what happens that first year. That first year you make a lot of income you wouldn’t have made if you didn’t spend more.
At the end of the first functioning year, you could easily have recouped most of your added expenses.
Perhaps I’m dead wrong. There’s no way to cut the time needed to become operational. I’m not buying it.
You company has already hired every qualified welder in the nation? Really?
Just since you brought up the comparison:
Less than three months after the Northridge earthquake knocked down two sections of the world’s busiest thoroughfare, Gov. Pete Wilson announced Tuesday that the Santa Monica Freeway will reopen next week, ending frustrating delays and bottlenecks for thousands of commuters.
State officials hope the final cleanup of construction work can be completed early April 12 in time to let rush-hour traffic inaugurate the two new freeway bridges at La Cienega and Washington boulevards.
Spurred by the promise of an extra $200,000 a day for every day work was completed ahead of schedule, the contractor, C. C. Myers Inc., will finish the project 74 days before a June 24 deadline and rack up a $14.5-million bonus for the company.
The high-speed construction was made possible by crews working around the clock, seven days a week, and by state officials cutting through red tape.
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-04-06/news/mn-42778_1_santa-monica-freeway
April 06, 1994
the acceleration did not come without cost. With the bonuses given to C. C. Myers, the price tag on the project rose from the original bid of $14.9 million to nearly $30 million.
False.
Again, we work projects already paying overtime. To think we are ignorant and don't value time and early cash flow is insulting.
There’s no way to cut the time needed to become operational.
I have not claimed that. I have claimed it isn't free.
You company has already hired every qualified welder in the nation? Really?
What do you suppose would happen to the wage rate if one company tried to hire every qualified welder in the nation for a couple years?
I’m sure it never dawned on you that his bid would not have been as low, without those incentives.
It’s comical to watch you squirm here.
His bid would have been closer to the amount he actually received.
You didn’t know that right? Good grief.
You certainly have your “CAN’T” in high gear don’t you.
You are dreaming if you believe that was a $30 million dollar project on normal schedules. Wishful thinking doesn’t change reality.
Nobody said you were ignorant. I simply stated where there is a will to do something, it can be done. You evidently don’t agree. So be it.
Yes you have claimed it isn’t free. And yet you have also said you couldn’t recoup most of your costs in the first year.
What do you suppose would happen if you hired men to do the extra shifts that had been out of work, and would gladly do the job for less than normal wages?
You don’t know do you.
Multiple times I have said we can and we do. But it isn't free. It has cost to accelerate schedules. Thinking otherwise is just wanting free bubble-up and rainbow stew.
Again, the industry is already paying inflated wages for those people and still cannot get enough people that can actually do the work.
Seriously. You deliver product a year or more earlier, and you can see no ability to defray some of the costs to do it.
Trying to discuss this with you, is pointless. You even ignore the basic concepts of doing business in these types of economic times.
Every welder with that special knowledge has been hired already, and not apprentice program could bring other welders up to speed in a few months?
LOL
And here I thought the regulatory folks were the problem.
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