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(NEED HELP!) Advice needed from the FR Banglist/Lawyer Community
Vanity

Posted on 07/19/2014 3:57:42 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA

Several years ago, we had a burglary and guns were stolen from our house. About a year ago, one of them turned up on a thug, who was reaching for it in his waistband and subsequently was tasered by the police before he was able to use it one them. In the end, the gun helped to put him away, but even with priors (including a shooting about 10 years back) he only received a sentence of 3 ½ to 7 years from our pathetic “justice” system.

Fast forward to the present. I was informed that I could get my gun (property) back one month after he was sentenced just in case he appealed the case. A month went by from the time he was sentenced, and I tried to get the gun. No help from the DA’s office or the police. In fact, I was informed by the police that before I would get my gun back, they were going to do a background check on ME! On the owner of the gun!!!!! WTF kind of system is this?

So I have been waiting now for approximately two months over the time when I was told I could get the gun back. He was sentenced in April, so I was told I could get the gun back June 1st. Apparently the officer who was involved in the case has to sign something to release the gun (not even sure why that should be required), but now that officer and the police are being sued by this thug and so the gun is not being released by their attorney (the attorney for the city)! It is my understanding that only the criminal case is what matters; whether the officer or the police are being sued in a civil case should have no bearing on the release of my gun.

Who should I contact to expedite this? I have sent too many emails and phone calls as it is. I am fed up. It is my property and they should not be able to keep it past the time they are supposed to. My local legislator is worthless as he is antigun and only got into office because he was unopposed.

If anyone has a contact number of someone at the NRA who could help, please Freepmail me, or if there are any attorneys with any ideas please let me know.

In my opinion, if you do not get your property back within one week of the time you should, there should be monetary penalties to those throwing up roadblocks. Luckily for me, it is not my only gun. Bu if that was all I could afford, these people would be leaving my family at the mercy of the vermin walking the streets. I cannot describe how I feel about the people involved in this process.

This is simply a criminal system.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: attorney; banglist; crime; guns; justicesystem; lawyerhelp; legaladvice; pa; vanity
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1 posted on 07/19/2014 3:57:42 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA

Forgot to ad, the gun only has an MSRP of $329, so hiring an attorney is out of the question.


2 posted on 07/19/2014 3:59:31 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You aren’t going to get that gun back FRiend. If you do it would be a miracle.


3 posted on 07/19/2014 4:01:10 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Red in Blue PA

THIS and all the dog shootings is people hate cops.

If you’re a cop, then please understand why I hate you, ok?

I mean that there are causes and effects.

When cops treat good people like criminals, then some and eventually all good people will treat cops like criminals.

Please understand why only cops will be your friends, ok cops?

Cuz you’re criminals.


5 posted on 07/19/2014 4:05:54 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Red in Blue PA
Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
6 posted on 07/19/2014 4:06:31 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Red in Blue PA

They have it, it was almost used against an boy in blue. It will be lost/fall through the cracks. I bet you anything they tell you it gets lost. It was used in a crime, they can keep it locked up forever. If they can give YOU A BACKGROUND check for YOUR PROPERTY. They can do whatever they want.

I would contact the NRA. For starters. If you’re really serious about getting it back.


7 posted on 07/19/2014 4:06:40 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

What PD is this?
I had a problem last year where a pistol of mine was taken by law enforcement (I’ll tell you about it privately if you wish). All I had to do was provide the original purchasing paperwork (”Application/Record of Sale” SP 4-113 (8-2007)) and they cracked the safe open and gave me the weapon right then and there, even the ammo. I do however have a CCP and rendered that when I showed up to pick up my weapon so maybe that helped?


8 posted on 07/19/2014 4:07:09 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If it ever does show up, it will be a rusted mess.


9 posted on 07/19/2014 4:09:56 PM PDT by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Send the cops and the DA a registered letter demanding the return of your property or a written statement giving their Statutory authority for refusing to do so. On the bottom of that letter put a cc: to a local attorney. Pick one out of the phone book or from a google search.

Don’t actually send a copy to the referenced attorney, just make the cops and the DA think you did.

Give them 30 days to respond. If they don’t sue them in small claims court for the value of the gun. Make sure you save a copy of the letter and the receipt from both the cops and the DA to show the judge.

That may make them cough it up. If they don’t you’ll at least get your money.

L


10 posted on 07/19/2014 4:10:54 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I don’t know your state, but here’s a sample statute.

“Art. 47.01a. RESTORATION WHEN NO TRIAL IS PENDING. (a) If a criminal action relating to allegedly stolen property is not pending, a district judge, county court judge, statutory county court judge, or justice of the peace having jurisdiction as a magistrate in the county in which the property is held or a municipal judge having jurisdiction as a magistrate in the municipality in which the property is being held may hold a hearing to determine the right to possession of the property, upon the petition of an interested person, a county, a city, or the state. Jurisdiction under this section is based solely on jurisdiction as a criminal magistrate under this code and not jurisdiction as a civil court. The court shall:
(1) order the property delivered to whoever has the superior right to possession, without conditions; or
(2) on the filing of a written motion before trial by an attorney representing the state, order the property delivered to whoever has the superior right to possession, subject to the condition that the property be made available to the prosecuting authority should it be needed in future prosecutions; or
(3) order the property awarded to the custody of the peace officer, pending resolution of criminal investigations regarding the property.
(b) If it is shown in a hearing that probable cause exists to believe that the property was acquired by theft or by another manner that makes its acquisition an offense and that the identity of the actual owner of the property cannot be determined, the court shall order the peace officer to:
(1) deliver the property to a government agency for official purposes;
(2) deliver the property to a person authorized by Article 18.17 of this code to receive and dispose of the property; or
(3) destroy the property.
(c) At a hearing under Subsection (a) of this article, any interested person may present evidence showing that the property was not acquired by theft or another offense or that the person is entitled to possess the property. At the hearing, hearsay evidence is admissible.
(d) Venue for a hearing under this article is in any justice, county, statutory county, or district court in the county in which the property is seized or in any municipal court in any municipality in which the property is seized, except that the court may transfer venue to a court in another county on the motion of any interested party.”

Call your Justice Center or whatever it’s called and nicely ask/plead with a deputy clerk in a circuit/district court to see if they can give you a push/help you get started with a pro se (one prepared w/o a lawyer) petition. Your county may have a web site with sample forms. Maybe you can cobble something together and get a judge to order return of the gun to you.


11 posted on 07/19/2014 4:11:15 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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Bookmarking for home.


12 posted on 07/19/2014 4:12:23 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Uninstall Fascist Firefox. Get Pale Moon.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If the perp is suing the cops, the gun might be evidence in the civil case. Most likely the Civil Case will be put on hold until the perp gets out of prison. That could be a very long time.

Just write it off as a tax deduction and buy a new gun. Either that or put it in your will and let your grand children deal with it.


13 posted on 07/19/2014 4:12:57 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Who informed you that you could get the gun back? Was this in writting?

I had had a similar issue, but nothing in writting. I bugged them regularly for 18 months and eventually did get the gun back.


14 posted on 07/19/2014 4:12:59 PM PDT by umgud (I couldn't understand why the ball kept getting bigger......... then it hit me.)
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To: FreedomStar3028
It will be lost/fall through the cracks.

Hate to break it to you but I have a Property Item ID # for the gun. If they lose it, they owe me money.
15 posted on 07/19/2014 4:13:06 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: umgud

I have a Property Item ID # from the police and the DA’s office informed me I would be getting the gun back, as did the police department.


16 posted on 07/19/2014 4:14:46 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I had a Colt revolver stolen from my pickup in Norfolk, VA. I had NRA insurance and collected the value of the gun.

Maybe 5 years later I was living in Kansas and my old supervisor phoned and told me the cops in Norfolk had recovered my gun. I phoned them and within a week I had it back. They shipped it to the local Garden City, KS PD and they simply gave it to me when they got it.

I guess all cops aren’t bad.


17 posted on 07/19/2014 4:15:34 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You wont get the gun back without a court order, which will take a lawyer.

The gun will sit in the back room for a while and then either be sold, melted down, or taken home by a cop.


18 posted on 07/19/2014 4:15:44 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I wouldn’t even want it back... You don’t know how many people were murdered with it.


19 posted on 07/19/2014 4:22:15 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: driftdiver
You wont get the gun back without a court order, which will take a lawyer. The gun will sit in the back room for a while and then either be sold, melted down, or taken home by a cop.

I asked for advice on getting it back, not inane statements that all is lost. People get guns back every day. Why is mine going to disappear in the ether?
20 posted on 07/19/2014 4:22:50 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: babygene
I wouldn’t even want it back... You don’t know how many people were murdered with it.

Using that logic, never buy a used car again. After all, you don't know how many people were killed with it by drunk drivers.
21 posted on 07/19/2014 4:23:44 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

File suit against the crook for all the emotional trauma you had to deal with from having your gun stolen.


22 posted on 07/19/2014 4:26:58 PM PDT by aimhigh (1 John 3:23)
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To: aimhigh

Yeah, because hiring a lawyer is free, and the crook surely has deep pockets to hit/s


23 posted on 07/19/2014 4:29:27 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

“Using that logic, never buy a used car again. After all, you don’t know how many people were killed with it by drunk drivers.”

That’s a little different don’t you think? I would think that most cars involved in drunk driver situations are never returned, and are scrapped...


24 posted on 07/19/2014 4:29:57 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Do the registered letter thing, then if nothing happens start criminal proceedings:
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
and
18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
And possibly 18 U.S. Code § 241.
25 posted on 07/19/2014 4:30:34 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: driftdiver

To: Red in Blue PA

You wont get the gun back without a court order, which will take a lawyer.

The gun will sit in the back room for a while and then either be sold, melted down, or taken home by a cop.

DON’T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ,
our stolen gun used in a PA murder was returned, just go introduce yourself to person in charge, i.e. Sheriff, Chief and let them know your situation.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 4:30:37 PM PDT by conservativesister
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To: babygene
That’s a little different don’t you think?

Not at all. The gun didn't murder anyone. The perp did.

If you don't understand this simple concept, I am surprised you are here at FR.
27 posted on 07/19/2014 4:31:15 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: conservativesister
just go introduce yourself to person in charge, i.e. Sheriff, Chief and let them know your situation.

I am working full time and going for my MBA at nights. Time is a resource I have little of at the moment.
28 posted on 07/19/2014 4:32:10 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

“Not at all. The gun didn’t murder anyone. The perp did.”

I understand that, but I still wouldn’t want it in my collection.

A new crime come’s up, and it is traced to my gun... I wouldn’t want to deal with this.

Nor would I want a chain saw in my tool shed that had been used for chain saw killings.


29 posted on 07/19/2014 4:41:16 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene

My guns are always welcome home. Always. End of story.


30 posted on 07/19/2014 4:42:34 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Well good luck.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 4:43:05 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I’m just telling you that they’ll probably give you some type of excuse or something. I mean you’ve even said they haven’t given it back when they told you they would. They are holding it. That’s the first sign they aren’t going to give it back, second is they are giving you different excuses to why they aren’t giving it back. The cops/gov is not your friend. Third will be they will not return your phone calls, or refuse to do anything about it, or answer questions. Or has that already happened?

They could just as easily say that because it got stolen that you aren’t fit to own it, they can say or do whatever they want, and no one is going to hold them accountable.

If I had a nickel for every time the cops and local gov screwed a victim over, I would be a very wealthy man.

I’m sorry this happened, you need to do a few things though.

1.) consult with a lawyer
2.) contact the NRA
3.) contact your state reps
4.) call the DA

Why wasn’t the gun locked up, by the way?


32 posted on 07/19/2014 4:44:18 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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To: FreedomStar3028
Why wasn’t the gun locked up, by the way?

Because it was in MY house.
33 posted on 07/19/2014 4:45:56 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

You are right to be upset, but I would just let it go, you shouldn’t want to have a gun used in a crime, even if technically you have full right to get it back. You never know whether it might become a problem later on, or even if it won’t.

Be glad the guy is sitting in jail.

Just get another one, nice, brand new one.


34 posted on 07/19/2014 4:47:06 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: FreedomStar3028
They could just as easily say that because it got stolen that you aren’t fit to own it

Show me where that had happened even one time. Just once. With a real live linky.

You are spouting BS, making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
35 posted on 07/19/2014 4:47:53 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: gaijin

Don’t blame the police on this one.


36 posted on 07/19/2014 4:47:55 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative
you shouldn’t want to have a gun used in a crime, even if technically you have full right to get it back.

That is your opinion, which I do not care about.
37 posted on 07/19/2014 4:48:51 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Ghost of SVR4

But this gun was used in a crime... almost shooting or attempting to shoot a police man.

It IS evidence.


38 posted on 07/19/2014 4:48:59 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative
Don’t blame the police on this one.

Huh?

They are the ones holding it after the DA's office released it.
39 posted on 07/19/2014 4:49:30 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Innovative
But this gun was used in a crime... almost shooting or attempting to shoot a police man.

The criminal case is OVER. He is in jail. What don't you comprehend?
40 posted on 07/19/2014 4:50:08 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Stop emailing and phoning and use registered mail, which gives you PROOF of delivery/acceptance of your demand to have your stolen property returned.

They can ignore phone calls and emails till the cows come home because obtaining proof of those will be just as hard to obtain as the gun. But the USPS will provide you with a handy dandy return receipt/proof of delivery (with signature!) that is in your possession rather than theirs.

Seems stupid, but snail mail creates a paper trail they can’t control or expunge. Which means they are more likely to pay attention and deal with it appropriately.


41 posted on 07/19/2014 4:53:10 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Why would they require a background check for your property?

Next they will ask for a psych exam.

Look, they obviously don’t want to give the gun back.

Cops do whatever they want, to whomever they want every day.

I can look up and find hundreds and hundreds of links and articles that support that statement. Cops can say and do whatever they want.

I’m telling you what to do, and you’re getting all defensive about it. Get a lawyer, contact your state reps, contact the NRA, contact the DA. Continue going into the station/courthouse every day and telling them you want your gun back.

They are already giving you a hard time, when they should have returned your property. You’re dealing with the POLICE who get away with murder on an almost daily basis. If you really want your gun back then you’re going to have to put some time and effort into it, since they haven’t given it back already.


42 posted on 07/19/2014 4:53:17 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

I understand how you feel, but put this in perspective, which you seem to have lost, being so focused on getting your gun back.

You yourself said it wasn’t expensive, you are upset because things aren’t the way you want them to be — well, that happens a lot in life.

Be glad they caught the perp and your gun helped put them away — so it accomplished a good thing.

Just move on, instead of wasting your energy on this.


43 posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:32 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: FreedomStar3028
I can look up and find hundreds and hundreds of links and articles that support that statement.

I asked for ONE. You say you can provide one for what you claim, and still do not. Bug off.
44 posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:51 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Valpal1

Sensible advice. Thanks.


45 posted on 07/19/2014 4:55:47 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA

If this is the way you are treating the police who won’t give your gun back, I can see why they are jerking you around.


46 posted on 07/19/2014 4:56:06 PM PDT by FreedomStar3028 (Evil must be punished.)
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To: Innovative
Just move on, instead of wasting your energy on this.

Where in my header did I say that was even an option? It is my property and I am getting it back.
47 posted on 07/19/2014 4:56:43 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Red in Blue PA; FreedomStar3028; babygene
Why wasn’t the gun locked up, by the way?

I wouldn’t even want it back... You don’t know how many people were murdered with it.

Red, I've landed in Bizarro Land. I hope you get your gun back.

48 posted on 07/19/2014 4:58:23 PM PDT by sockmonkey (Of course I didn't read the article. After all, this is Free Republic.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Good luck!

You can let us know if and when you get your gun back.

Don’t be surprised if you start getting audited by the IRS...


49 posted on 07/19/2014 4:58:31 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: sockmonkey

Seriously. Is this FR or is it DU?


50 posted on 07/19/2014 4:59:08 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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