Posted on 12/23/2013 5:42:10 AM PST by Kaslin
At the risk of having at least some of what I am about to share misunderstood, I venture a few thoughts on the current Phil Robertson-Duck Dynasty -A&E story.
First, it strikes me that framing it primarily as a freedom of speech issue falls short of what is really happening. The censoring of Phil Robertson is more than an attack on any man’s right to speak his mind—it is a matter of religious discrimination. It is part of a broad-brush attempt by some to delegitimize opinions and values rooted in a traditional view of scripture—the historical-grammatical method of interpreting and applying what the Bible says.
Second, it is important for us to understand the difference between sinful behavior and criminal behavior. For a person to be drunk and then operate a motor vehicle would be a crime. For that same person to be drunk at home would just be bad behavior—not a crime. However, Bible-oriented Christians would certainly mark even solitary intoxication, with no potential for anyone else to get hurt, as sinful.
Many things can be categorized as sins that are not necessarily illegal. Conservative Christians believe premarital and extramarital heterosexual sex is sinful, but it’s not criminal behavior. Serious Christians believe it is a sin to neglect prayer and Bible reading, but would never want those activities to be mandated as the law of the land.
My point is that it is wrong to ask a person his personal religious views and then make the leap to suggest that holding certain views means he wants all sin to be outlawed. Christians may want to see basic moral values held and practiced as a healthy part of our social contract, but I doubt there are many who want to replace the Constitution with the Bible. That’s more of an Islamist-Sharia thing than a Christ-follower thing.
Third, there are numerous New Testament precepts that are related to God’s call for His people to live godly, even holy, lives. These directives are not really designed for the world at large, because they are only possible when the heart has been transformed by God’s love and power. It’s not a double standard, but it is a different one—a higher one. It would be wrong for Christians to try to impose those “insider” standards on the larger culture. And it wouldn’t work.
This is not to say that God’s absolute and righteous law has nothing to do with the world at large. In fact, history bears witness that the Judeo-Christian ethic informs the kind of morality needed for a free society to function.
Beyond that, Christians have a responsibility to proclaim the righteous standards of God to the world as part of the presentation of the Gospel. The idea is that people need to understand what sin is before they can grasp and appreciate grace. But the proclamation of the law of God by followers of Christ is not about trying to reform the world, it’s about holding up a standard designed to convince people of their need of a Savior.
Fourth, and finally, while I support Mr. Robertson’s right to say what he said, and I abhor the kind of politically correct blackballing we are currently witnessing, I do have a reservation.
Phil Robertson’s particular grouping of the sins he listed along with homosexuality in the GQ article was drawn from St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter six. That is clear and unambiguous. But there is another scripture he needs to review before he gets drawn in to such a public discussion again.
That one is found in St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, chapter five, verses eleven and twelve: “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.” (New International Version)
In other words, there is no need to go into graphic detail. And I suspect that if Mr. Robertson had avoided a few of his more “colorful” characterizations, he could have made his larger point without some (though probably not all) of the subsequent polarization.
Ephesians 5
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Whatever David. Phil has done nothing wrong.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Sometimes there is. In this case, we need to combat the deception - particularly being foisted on children - that being "gay" is about costume parties when it's really about anal sex.
It's funny how squeamish all these "pundits" are. It's almost as if they'd prefer that we all keep pretending. Maybe we could, if people's lives and souls weren't at stake.
FROM THE LINKED ARTICLE:
“...Fourth, and finally, while I support Mr. Robertson’s right to say what he said, and I abhor the kind of politically correct blackballing we are currently witnessing, I do have a reservation.
Phil Robertson’s particular grouping of the sins he listed along with homosexuality in the GQ article was drawn from St. Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians, chapter six.
That is clear and unambiguous. But there is another scripture he needs to review before he gets drawn in to such a public discussion again.
That one is found in St. Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, chapter five, verses eleven and twelve: “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.” (New International Version)...”
******************************************************************
“what the disobedient do in secret”? Nah, it’s NOT done in secret, they are very public and very proud of their sin. It’s not secret, it’s “flaming”.
I guess the author just HAD to find something for which to criticize Robinson.
I often think that perhaps some of these sympathisers should be made to watch a “gay” video...
“Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."
It is shameful. It's disgusting. We don't want to talk about it, and that lets them get away with it. You don't cure an infection by wrapping it up in bandages and pretending you don't smell the pus.
(The video suggestion is really heavy artillery!)
I've also found that surprising since Phil only used the anatomically/medically correct names for what is involved in homosexual acts. If these scribes cannot have that accuracy put into print, perhaps that exposes how badly they've been overlooking the reality and they have been taken in by the PC movement, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Does his reservation have a casino?
I agree. “La-la-la I didn’t hear you say that la-la-la.”
Speaking politely about the issue is just dancing around it. Sometimes, you have the stick the dog’s noes in it before he gets the point.
No kidding!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/obamas-safe-schools-czar-tied-lewd-readings/
With kids being exposed to this mess, why shouldn’t somebody mention how absurd it is to chose to swim in a septic tank as opposed to a swimming pool? One is not meant for recreation for good reason.
No, there's no need of graphic detail but that's really isn't the problem. While modesty and good taste are always proper and necessary in our speech the homosexual lobby and its ever so supportive apologists are offended that anyone should be so bold, particularly some Bible believer, as to criticize their conduct and do so without the liberal perfume of hypocrisy.
It doesn't matter one tiny bit to the homosexuals and their paramours whether Phil used graphic language or the broadest and most general euphisms, only acceptance and approval are to be tolerated by the perverse logic of the amoral.
In other words, there is no need to go into graphic detail. And I suspect that if Mr. Robertson had avoided a few of his more “colorful” characterizations, he could have made his larger point without some (though probably not all) of the subsequent polarization.
People are a product of their cultural millieu and express themselves as such. Robertson’s rhetoric is a product of who is he is and I have no problem with it. As a matter of fact, I LIKE it. Its plain-speak.
agree
what is the difference society is now supposed to embrace and celebrate anyway? If anal sex defines a protected class, then why be squeamish. the love that dare not speak its name has insisted on standing in the public square with a megaphone.
Leftists really hate it when you “go into graphic detail” over what they support.
Leaving aside homosexual behavior, we can simply go into their social welfare programs...
“you mean that you support granting authority to the government to steal, through the threat of deadly force, a gun in the face, the earnings of one person to give to another because you deem the receiver to be worthy?”
: a feeling of doubt or uncertainty about something
not this
: an area of land in the U.S. that is kept separate as a place for Native Americans to live the author means this
When I read Eph 5:11 all I can think of is how there are 85 million fundies of whom only HALF are registered voters of whom only HALF actually vote (per Sean Hannity of late).
How about the guy who tried to get a million write-in votes for “Jesus” this last election? How about the oft cited million + drop in fundie voting 2012 (from 2008) that might well have put Obozo back in (along with rampant voter fraud among the dems-mostly students if you asked me)?
The Evangelicals by and large know nothing on ‘lesser of two evils’.
I have a few siblings of the ‘Sola Scriptura’ stripe who claim to be “conservative” but ya’d never know it except for their ‘scripture six-shooting’ once a visit. They think buying Girl Scout cookies is just fine and any Catholic (or a what, Cessationist non-Millenialist fundie?) who tells them otherwise is a, ya know, Pharisee.
I keep pointing then to Eph 5:11 and might as well be talking to walls. They probably think by avoiding Catholicism they’ve already fulfilled it.
Thank the Justification Heresy.
No I’m not addressing any replies - got things to do.
Its not a “shame” (see Douay Rheims version) to point out exactly what sodomy is. Certain things simply shouldn’t be mentioned in ‘polite society’ under certain formats (such children might see).
There are “unspeakable” things but this is more along lines of what Alister Crowley advocated. Even then “Churchmen” would have to chronicle in writing, keep evidence in closed chambers for juridical reference (yes these things once did got to court ya know), something as Vatican archives had to keep condemned pornographic materials under lock and key while the condemned reading lists were issued. Those would be things Jack Chick would tell you are a reason the Vatican has the biggest prono collection in the world (unless it was Samie Davis’), but Chick didn’t point that out.
Have a nice day.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.