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Nazi war criminal to get church funeral [from schismatic sect]
CNN ^ | October 15th, 2013 | Daniel Burke and Hada Messia

Posted on 10/15/2013 1:29:27 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows

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To: nd76

And they are said to carry along a load of utter, narrowly vindictive baloney about the Jewish people... is that a false assertion?

You sound like an addict to an ism, not to Christ.


21 posted on 10/15/2013 2:16:34 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

That I will agree with but without those sins would His sacrifice be necessary? No, so to lay blame by some is flawed, is my only point here. They can settle blame assignment when/if they go home and ask Him themselves who was to blame? They might be surprised at the answer, which I suspect is all of us.


22 posted on 10/15/2013 2:17:48 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

Ultimately it was a voluntary sacrifice. The Lord always had the right to tell all to go to hell as the devil’s slaves, but His own love forbade Him.


23 posted on 10/15/2013 2:20:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

And I mean, what did Christ beg on that cross?

For these “pious Pius” folks to carry on like that (unless they don’t, and if they don’t then wonderful) would bespeak, at best, an extremely dilute Christ-ianity (and I hyphenate the word for emphasis).


24 posted on 10/15/2013 2:21:34 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
I couldn't even begin to disagree with you.

I know without shadow of doubt that my own personal sins drove the nails into Christ's feet and pushed the spear into His side. Without His redemptive work, my fate is hell.

My only point is that I, and every other sinner is GUILTY! To say we are not guilty because God knew what we were going to do is simply wrong.

25 posted on 10/15/2013 2:25:38 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: Resolute Conservative

And anyhow. If whatever Christian group bid him farewell to eternity had any class, they’d do what Christ did. Pray for the forgiveness of all sinners.


26 posted on 10/15/2013 2:25:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

This is an knotty philosophical issue. All I can suggest is that in the Lord’s creation, issues of causation are not necessarily tied down to the time line that we know in this mortal coil. When we humans think of the scene, we virtually always tend to think in terms of “keep one factor constant but vary the rest.” One result of this kind of assumption is the classic tussle between Calvinism and Arminianism depending on what the invariant factor is held to be. However an omnipotent Lord has the capability of varying EVERYTHING without skipping a beat, to get a glorious integrated whole.


27 posted on 10/15/2013 2:30:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Love the way your mind works.

When we talk about the fact you can't limit God, we may be underestimating Him.

28 posted on 10/15/2013 2:34:20 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: vladimir998
If he reconciled with God and the Church, then he has a RIGHT to the funeral.

No one but God knows what was in his heart at the moment of his death, but after he died, his lawyer released a statement he had written on his deathbed which continued to deny his guilt and also denied the Holocaust (he claimed the ovens at Auschwitz were actually kitchens to feed the prisoners). So, IMHO (and speaking as a non-Catholic), the Pope was right to deny him a church funeral.

29 posted on 10/15/2013 2:35:32 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Slings and Arrows

I seem to recall, that there was a massacre in retaliation for an ambush in a city street by Italian Communist Guerrillas? The Nazi’s were known for their retaliation due to guerrilla activities. Italy was occupied by the Germans after the Italians surrendered. There were still Italian forces in Italy that supported the Germans. The Germans didn’t see the Italians as an enemy. The Italian Communists wanted to play soldiers, and the end result was they were rounded up. The Hague convention wasn’t vague on the treatment of Guerrillas. Like any war, no one wants to see their soldiers in their command killed by enemy partisans, lose a couple of buddies through partisan actions and bad things come out of it. My Lai was a good American example. War is truly hell, and not everyone is able to come out of it with clean hands.


30 posted on 10/15/2013 3:23:55 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Remember Ty Woods? Glenn Doherty ? Forgot already?)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Under Pope Benedict XVI, the Catholic Church tried to bring the ultra-conservative society back into the fold, lifting the excommunication of several bishops

One of Benedict's few mistakes -- he should have stood firm rather than made wishy-washy concessions.

31 posted on 10/15/2013 3:28:47 PM PDT by Guttlekraw
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To: Bringbackthedraft

The Fosse Ardeatine massacre of 1943.


32 posted on 10/15/2013 3:40:05 PM PDT by research99
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To: HiTech RedNeck

No, the Church authorities said he should have a private funeral in his home. They were not against him having a funeral. They just wanted it done simply and quietly.


33 posted on 10/15/2013 4:01:51 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Lurking Libertarian

If what you say is true, then that’s good enough for me.


34 posted on 10/15/2013 4:09:31 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
If what you say is true

I got it from this article on FR.

35 posted on 10/15/2013 4:16:41 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Would SSPX have given Ted Kennedy a Catholic funeral? Serious question. I think highly of the SSPX and what they have done to preserve the Faith.


36 posted on 10/15/2013 5:00:52 PM PDT by informavoracious (Of course I want people to have healthcare, I just didn't know I was the one who would be paying...)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Praying for the forgiveness of sin doesn't entail holding a funeral ceremony for a war criminal.

During the Middle Ages, the Church promulgated the concept that, even in war, there were rules of decent behavior that had to be followed. The Church generally didn't have the power to directly enforce such rules, but they did have ways of exerting pressure -- such as denying particularly flagrant violators the privileges of funeral rites and burial in consecrated ground.

Undermining this precedent is a serious offense by these schismatics.

37 posted on 10/15/2013 6:55:09 PM PDT by Guttlekraw
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To: Guttlekraw

I think we’re talking about two different issues here. The snotty attitude towards Jews doesn’t belong, in the first place. A “hardening in part” has come to Israel and that’s as far as we have any basis to speak of curses. We cannot prejudge what part. We don’t know for exactly what current Jewish nonbelievers Christ has effectually begged, and proper humility would tell us that a “damn those Jews” attitude just doesn’t fit. Also gentiles are partly hardened too. It’s not like God is frowning only at some Jews.

As for a funeral, since when did freedom of religion go away. One can express hopes the man has repented if it is unknown. To deem it a priori impossible for Christ to forgive that hideous murderer and pay for his sins demeans Christ who is infinite, not just a little figure on a cross.


38 posted on 10/15/2013 11:35:00 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

Well, what I was thinking of is what remained after I had to toss out the impossibilities. I am left to lean not on Calvinism or Arminianism or any other ism, but on biblical promises... and we get to keep the one about “No one shall snatch them out of my hand.” I assert the biblical promise is that salvation is permanent once genuinely accepted. Without needing to go with all the rest of Calvinism, like “do you feel lucky punk.” God can line His ducks up just fine to keep that promise in every single solitary case. As for potential freedom of choice to believe... at the worst we have not been given any means by which to know who positively won’t accept the gospel. So I preach to all “like an Arminian.”


39 posted on 10/15/2013 11:41:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: informavoracious

They have kept good “moral” appearances in many case.

But even good moral appearances mean nothing without Christ in love in the heart. Without that, all we are left with is a “good” proud show.


40 posted on 10/15/2013 11:47:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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