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Nazi war criminal to get church funeral [from schismatic sect]
CNN ^ | October 15th, 2013 | Daniel Burke and Hada Messia

Posted on 10/15/2013 1:29:27 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows

ROME (CNN) - The Italian branch of schismatic Catholic sect with a history of anti-Semitism has agreed to hold a funeral for a convicted Nazi war criminal, despite protests from Jewish groups and the local mayor.

-snip-

But the conservative Society of St. Pius X, whose leaders were excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 for ordaining their own bishops without Vatican approval, agreed Tuesday to hold funeral rites for Priebke.

-snip-

The society also said that it "reaffirms our repudiation to any form of anti-semitism and racial hatred."

But the Society of St. Pius X has a long history of controversial statements toward Jews.

Its founder, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, sharply disagreed with the Roman Catholic Church's softened stance toward other faiths, including Judaism, after the Second Vatican Council in 1962-65.

According to the Anti-Defamation League, the Society of St. Pius X is "mired in anti-Semitism."

"Jews are described in SSPX documents as being cursed by God for the sin of deicide" (killing Jesus), the ADL says in an online report.

"Jews are accused of being in control of world financial and cultural institutions and of plotting to create a 'world empire' or obtain 'world dominion,'" the ADL report continues.

“The Society of St. Pius X never fails fail to shock," Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, said Tuesday. "First, they denied the Holocaust, and now they’re denying the acts of a perpetrator.”

Under Pope Benedict XVI, the Catholic Church tried to bring the ultra-conservative society back into the fold, lifting the excommunication of several bishops and allowing for wider celebration of the Mass in Latin, a favored practice of SSPX.

One of those bishops, Richard Williamson, was later found to have denied elements of the Holocaust, including its death toll of 6 million Jews.

(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany
KEYWORDS: erichpriebke; germany; italy; naziwarcriminal; priebke; sspx
I'm sure that our Catholic FReepers will appreciate that headline. Reminds me of Palestinian groups who cite Neturei Karta diatribes against Israel.
1 posted on 10/15/2013 1:29:27 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows
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To: Slings and Arrows

“Jews are described in SSPX documents as being cursed by God for the sin of deicide” (killing Jesus), the ADL says in an online report.

They are wrong, I submit that it was God’s plan to be sacrificed or else our salvation would not be attained. There is no blame Jews, Romans, and Judas were doing what they were foretold to do to ensure our life.


2 posted on 10/15/2013 1:35:31 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Slings and Arrows

That’s the Gibsons favorite catholic, isn’t it?


3 posted on 10/15/2013 1:40:25 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/nicolae-hussein-obama/)
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To: Hardraade
That’s the Gibsons favorite catholic, isn’t it?

Couldn't say. Mine is Pope Michael I.

[NOTE FOR THE HUMOR-IMPAIRED: This is not anti-Catholicism. A schismatic junk-store owner from Kansas declaring himself Pope is funny. Ask a friend.]

4 posted on 10/15/2013 1:46:18 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
Not so fast there Pilgrim.

Matthew 18:7 reads:
Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

I'm not anti-Semitic and I don't subscribe to the idea that Jews are cursed, but let's not overstate our case.

5 posted on 10/15/2013 1:48:10 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: Slings and Arrows

My only question is, did he repent of his sins?If so then he should be allowed a Christian burial.
If not, then let his sins be a testament against him.

There’s a difference between earthy and Heavenly judgements.
This applies to all of us sinners


6 posted on 10/15/2013 1:50:11 PM PDT by RedMonqey ("Gun-free zones" equal "Target-rich environment.")
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To: Slings and Arrows

The Jews didn’t kill Jesus. Syrian mercenaries in the Roman army pounded the nails and erected the cross.


7 posted on 10/15/2013 1:51:20 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: stormhill

Then omniscience and grace mean nothing. God knew what was coming long before it happened just like he knew each of us before we were born. He used the Jews and Romans to execute His plan.


8 posted on 10/15/2013 1:52:57 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Slings and Arrows

There is a baseball-card salesman who owns something like 30 antisemitic websites dedicated to Pius X. Needless to say, he doesn’t exactøy like normal Catholics :).


9 posted on 10/15/2013 1:53:44 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/nicolae-hussein-obama/)
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To: Hardraade

He can go drinking with Fred Phelps.


10 posted on 10/15/2013 1:57:35 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: muir_redwoods

We killed Jesus - your sins and mine.


11 posted on 10/15/2013 1:59:12 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Resolute Conservative
With that reasoning, Satan should be held guiltless.
Sorry FRiend, that's flawed logic.
12 posted on 10/15/2013 2:00:08 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: muir_redwoods

Ah. Romans!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc


13 posted on 10/15/2013 2:00:40 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/nicolae-hussein-obama/)
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To: Slings and Arrows

“A Christian who has been baptized and who has received the sacraments of the Confession and the Eucharist, regardless of what have been his crimes and sins, as he dies reconciling with God and with the Church has the right to have a Holy Mass celebrated at his funeral,” the group said in a statement.

I agree with the SSPX here. If he reconciled with God and the Church, then he has a RIGHT to the funeral.


14 posted on 10/15/2013 2:02:06 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Slings and Arrows

The ADL from time to time identifies some real stinkers, like this one. Unfortunately it has the value of crying wolf because it can be pretty thin skinned. That group is a caution about what Catholicism looks like when you take the Christianity out of it.


15 posted on 10/15/2013 2:02:43 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: vladimir998

did the main Catholic church refuse to accept him for confession or what?


16 posted on 10/15/2013 2:07:55 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Shame on you. You have absolutely no idea who the SSPX are or what they actually stand for, which is Christian tradition.

The SSPX has just about single-handedly saved the traditional Latin Mass, which a cabal of Masons and Communists who wrote the Vatican II documents tried to destroy with the insipid “Mass of Paul VI” in 1969.


17 posted on 10/15/2013 2:11:11 PM PDT by nd76
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To: stormhill

So He is either omniscient or not, which is it?


18 posted on 10/15/2013 2:12:06 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative
Of course God is omniscient.
That doesn't expiate the sinners who commit the sins He foresaw!
19 posted on 10/15/2013 2:14:02 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: stormhill

Well yes, because he sins and all sin results in woe. That might be a specific hint about the rebel disciple, Judas, who preferred to kill himself rather than begging God for forgiveness (which if it had hypothetically happened would have been granted).


20 posted on 10/15/2013 2:15:17 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: nd76

And they are said to carry along a load of utter, narrowly vindictive baloney about the Jewish people... is that a false assertion?

You sound like an addict to an ism, not to Christ.


21 posted on 10/15/2013 2:16:34 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

That I will agree with but without those sins would His sacrifice be necessary? No, so to lay blame by some is flawed, is my only point here. They can settle blame assignment when/if they go home and ask Him themselves who was to blame? They might be surprised at the answer, which I suspect is all of us.


22 posted on 10/15/2013 2:17:48 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

Ultimately it was a voluntary sacrifice. The Lord always had the right to tell all to go to hell as the devil’s slaves, but His own love forbade Him.


23 posted on 10/15/2013 2:20:02 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

And I mean, what did Christ beg on that cross?

For these “pious Pius” folks to carry on like that (unless they don’t, and if they don’t then wonderful) would bespeak, at best, an extremely dilute Christ-ianity (and I hyphenate the word for emphasis).


24 posted on 10/15/2013 2:21:34 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Resolute Conservative
I couldn't even begin to disagree with you.

I know without shadow of doubt that my own personal sins drove the nails into Christ's feet and pushed the spear into His side. Without His redemptive work, my fate is hell.

My only point is that I, and every other sinner is GUILTY! To say we are not guilty because God knew what we were going to do is simply wrong.

25 posted on 10/15/2013 2:25:38 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: Resolute Conservative

And anyhow. If whatever Christian group bid him farewell to eternity had any class, they’d do what Christ did. Pray for the forgiveness of all sinners.


26 posted on 10/15/2013 2:25:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

This is an knotty philosophical issue. All I can suggest is that in the Lord’s creation, issues of causation are not necessarily tied down to the time line that we know in this mortal coil. When we humans think of the scene, we virtually always tend to think in terms of “keep one factor constant but vary the rest.” One result of this kind of assumption is the classic tussle between Calvinism and Arminianism depending on what the invariant factor is held to be. However an omnipotent Lord has the capability of varying EVERYTHING without skipping a beat, to get a glorious integrated whole.


27 posted on 10/15/2013 2:30:20 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Love the way your mind works.

When we talk about the fact you can't limit God, we may be underestimating Him.

28 posted on 10/15/2013 2:34:20 PM PDT by stormhill (Guns Save Lives!)
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To: vladimir998
If he reconciled with God and the Church, then he has a RIGHT to the funeral.

No one but God knows what was in his heart at the moment of his death, but after he died, his lawyer released a statement he had written on his deathbed which continued to deny his guilt and also denied the Holocaust (he claimed the ovens at Auschwitz were actually kitchens to feed the prisoners). So, IMHO (and speaking as a non-Catholic), the Pope was right to deny him a church funeral.

29 posted on 10/15/2013 2:35:32 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Slings and Arrows

I seem to recall, that there was a massacre in retaliation for an ambush in a city street by Italian Communist Guerrillas? The Nazi’s were known for their retaliation due to guerrilla activities. Italy was occupied by the Germans after the Italians surrendered. There were still Italian forces in Italy that supported the Germans. The Germans didn’t see the Italians as an enemy. The Italian Communists wanted to play soldiers, and the end result was they were rounded up. The Hague convention wasn’t vague on the treatment of Guerrillas. Like any war, no one wants to see their soldiers in their command killed by enemy partisans, lose a couple of buddies through partisan actions and bad things come out of it. My Lai was a good American example. War is truly hell, and not everyone is able to come out of it with clean hands.


30 posted on 10/15/2013 3:23:55 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Remember Ty Woods? Glenn Doherty ? Forgot already?)
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To: Slings and Arrows
Under Pope Benedict XVI, the Catholic Church tried to bring the ultra-conservative society back into the fold, lifting the excommunication of several bishops

One of Benedict's few mistakes -- he should have stood firm rather than made wishy-washy concessions.

31 posted on 10/15/2013 3:28:47 PM PDT by Guttlekraw
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To: Bringbackthedraft

The Fosse Ardeatine massacre of 1943.


32 posted on 10/15/2013 3:40:05 PM PDT by research99
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To: HiTech RedNeck

No, the Church authorities said he should have a private funeral in his home. They were not against him having a funeral. They just wanted it done simply and quietly.


33 posted on 10/15/2013 4:01:51 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Lurking Libertarian

If what you say is true, then that’s good enough for me.


34 posted on 10/15/2013 4:09:31 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
If what you say is true

I got it from this article on FR.

35 posted on 10/15/2013 4:16:41 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Slings and Arrows

Would SSPX have given Ted Kennedy a Catholic funeral? Serious question. I think highly of the SSPX and what they have done to preserve the Faith.


36 posted on 10/15/2013 5:00:52 PM PDT by informavoracious (Of course I want people to have healthcare, I just didn't know I was the one who would be paying...)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Praying for the forgiveness of sin doesn't entail holding a funeral ceremony for a war criminal.

During the Middle Ages, the Church promulgated the concept that, even in war, there were rules of decent behavior that had to be followed. The Church generally didn't have the power to directly enforce such rules, but they did have ways of exerting pressure -- such as denying particularly flagrant violators the privileges of funeral rites and burial in consecrated ground.

Undermining this precedent is a serious offense by these schismatics.

37 posted on 10/15/2013 6:55:09 PM PDT by Guttlekraw
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To: Guttlekraw

I think we’re talking about two different issues here. The snotty attitude towards Jews doesn’t belong, in the first place. A “hardening in part” has come to Israel and that’s as far as we have any basis to speak of curses. We cannot prejudge what part. We don’t know for exactly what current Jewish nonbelievers Christ has effectually begged, and proper humility would tell us that a “damn those Jews” attitude just doesn’t fit. Also gentiles are partly hardened too. It’s not like God is frowning only at some Jews.

As for a funeral, since when did freedom of religion go away. One can express hopes the man has repented if it is unknown. To deem it a priori impossible for Christ to forgive that hideous murderer and pay for his sins demeans Christ who is infinite, not just a little figure on a cross.


38 posted on 10/15/2013 11:35:00 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: stormhill

Well, what I was thinking of is what remained after I had to toss out the impossibilities. I am left to lean not on Calvinism or Arminianism or any other ism, but on biblical promises... and we get to keep the one about “No one shall snatch them out of my hand.” I assert the biblical promise is that salvation is permanent once genuinely accepted. Without needing to go with all the rest of Calvinism, like “do you feel lucky punk.” God can line His ducks up just fine to keep that promise in every single solitary case. As for potential freedom of choice to believe... at the worst we have not been given any means by which to know who positively won’t accept the gospel. So I preach to all “like an Arminian.”


39 posted on 10/15/2013 11:41:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: informavoracious

They have kept good “moral” appearances in many case.

But even good moral appearances mean nothing without Christ in love in the heart. Without that, all we are left with is a “good” proud show.


40 posted on 10/15/2013 11:47:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: informavoracious

And what’s the motive for pride you might ask? A lot, as long as Christianity and the bible are honored in the world. Without a Christ, what would an anti-Christ (fake Christ, but one of hate and not of love) ever have to imitate? Love chastens, but love does not keep a frown permanently glued on!


41 posted on 10/15/2013 11:49:36 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

This sure doesn’t look too optimistic, though as you said who knows what happened between then and the time he actually did leave this mortal coil (also, was this lawyer putting the muscle on him at the time?)

ADL would show more character if they said they firmly disagreed with honoring a man with a sanctuary funeral under such circumstances, and then left it. After you’ve said what God would presumably have to say, what else is there to say? ADL has unfortunately gotten whiny in many cases and that’s a shame. It undermines their credibility.


42 posted on 10/16/2013 12:02:18 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Another thread which discusses the Vatican's position and refusal.

Rome debates funeral for Nazi war criminal (Roman Vicariate says "No")

As to those suggesting or questioning whether he repented, both his statements during life and his release after death, the proper question would be what sins. He did nothing wrong, just followed orders, and the Holocaust is largely a myth anyway. The ovens were kitchens as we all know. I can see how this would be a problem for the Vatican.

43 posted on 10/16/2013 12:58:26 PM PDT by SJackson (As a black man, you know, Barack could get shot going to the gas station, Michelle on Chicago)
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To: Slings and Arrows

I won’t begrudge any man, even a Nazi, hope of reconciling his actions here on Earth with G-d.


44 posted on 10/16/2013 1:27:09 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Resolute Conservative; Slings and Arrows; stormhill; muir_redwoods
The SSPX people are heretical and schismatic. From a canonical point of view, the only part you can take seriously is the "X".

As for the Catholic view of Jesus' death: in the Nicene Creed, recited by all Catholics at every Sunday Mass since 325 AD, the only human implicated by name is the Roman governor ("...suffered under Pontius Pilate...")

From a theological point of view, the whole human race is responsible for His death, since our sins (individually and collectively) required so great a Savior. In a sense, the Jews --- as always --- represent the whole world as a kind of microcosm:

"He came unto His own, and His own received Him not."

That's all of us.

45 posted on 10/16/2013 1:51:54 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Acquire the Holy Spirit, and then thousands around you will be saved. " - St. Seraphim of Sarov)
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To: Slings and Arrows; Hardraade
"He can go drinking with Fred Phelps."

Or he could start a white slavery operation in an Italian Catholic community in the Midwest.


46 posted on 10/16/2013 2:50:20 PM PDT by familyop
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To: familyop
Or he could start a white slavery operation in an Italian Catholic community in the Midwest.

I'd want to see a business plan before buying in to that one.

47 posted on 10/16/2013 3:46:53 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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