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Impact of Open Homosexuality in Scouting (Pre-vote statement)
OnMyHonor.net ^ | May 2013 | John Stemberger

Posted on 05/25/2013 5:32:34 PM PDT by servo1969

(OnMyHonor.Net is the nationwide coalition of concerned parents, Scout Leaders, Scouting Donors, Eagle Scouts and other members of the Boy Scouts of America who are united in their support of Scouting’s current membership policies and their opposition to the proposed resolution which requires open homosexuality in the Boy Scouts.)

On May 9, 2013, pro-resolution BSA officials issued a document entitled “Membership Resolution Points of Clarification” which appears to be a direct response to OnMyHonor.Net’s “Ten Reasons Delegates Should Vote No”. This is a point-by-point response to the Points of Clarification written exclusively for voting BSA delegates.

First, the single most important thing that delegates should know which has never been mentioned by any the pro-resolution BSA materials is that even though the proposed resolution would not apply to adults immediately, legal experts estimate the new rule will also extend to everyone in the BSA, including adults, within only a couple of years because of lawsuits that will be brought by gay-rights activists under state non-discrimination clauses around the country once a gay Boy Scout turns 18 and is removed from the program. The resolution is the first step in a two-step process in the whole program. 

Second, there has been a lack of clarity regarding the nature of the actual words being amending to the current BSA policy, namely “open and avowed homosexuality”.

The essence of the difference between the old policy and the proposed new policy is that the old policy prohibits “open and avowed” homosexuality for both BSA youth and adult members but the new policy removes that prohibition for boys and requires every BSA unit to accept “open and avowed” homosexual youth up to 17 years old. Importantly, the current policy already allows for BSA members who have a same-sex attraction but do not act out openly or inappropriately to be in good standing and to earn Scouting’s highest rank of Eagle. This is a critical point that has been obscured by pro-resolution advocates but one which is irrefutable.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials Say:

1. “This proposal is in line with Scouting’s principles and virtues.” 

OnMyHonor.Net Says:

This statement seems close to a reversal of the BSA’s own values which were stated before the United States Supreme Court. The BSA’s official position and argument before the Court in the BSA vs. Dale case was:

“The Boy Scouts asserts that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the values embodied in the Scout Oath and Law, particularly those represented by the terms “morally straight” and “clean,” and that the organization does not want to promote homosexual conduct as a legitimate form of behavior.”

Further, in July 2012 last year, after an eleven member BSA committee studied the membership policy for two years they concluded that the prohibition on open and avowed homosexuality was “the absolute best policy” for the BSA according to the Associated Press. The sad reality of why the BSA did a complete reversal on this issue within a matter of months was the direct result of the relentless pressure and advocacy from gay-rights activists after the BSA affirmed their policy last year.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials say:

2. “This proposal is in line with the beliefs of most of Scouting’s major religious chartered organizations. We are unaware of any major religious chartered organization that believes a youth member simply stating he or she is attracted to the same sex, but not engaging in sexual activity, should make him or her unwelcome in their congregation.” 

OnMyHonor.Net says:

This statement is remarkably disingenuous and fails to recognize the reality of the “gay” culture in America. “Open and avowed” homosexuality or to identify oneself as “openly gay” in America consistently involves a flaunting of sexuality and the promotion of a left-leaning social political agenda. Things described as “gay” (e.g. gay movies, gay websites, gay magazines, gay parades etc…) almost uniformly involve images, speech, symbols and content which is blatantly sexual and utterly inappropriate for children. This hyper-sexualized behavior and conduct (apart from sexual acts themselves) are precisely what the proposed Resolution opens to door to when it proposes to allow open homosexuality in the BSA. It is pure naiveté to think that the behavioral standard words articulated in the resolution’s not legally binding “whereas” clauses will prevent the kind of inappropriate conversations, sexual innuendo, gay symbolism and emphasis on exhibiting sexuality that accompanies “open and avowed homosexuality”. Finally, while most of “Scouting’s major religious chartered” churches would welcome a teenager who merely has, or struggles with, same-sex attraction, those same churches would not allow membership to an openly gay teenager who is “loud and proud” bluntly promoting things considered by the church to be immoral and sinful. The current policy clearly already allows young people with a same-sex attraction so long as they do not engage in conduct and behavior that distracts from the mission of Scouting.

Pro-Resolution BSA Advocates Say:

3. “This proposal remains true to the long-standing virtues of Scouting and allows all youth who sincerely want to be a part of Scouting the chance to experience this life-changing program…. While people have different opinions about this policy, kids are better off when they are in Scouting.” 

OnMyHonor.Net says:

The BSA cites the Voice of the Scout survey as the primary motive for the resolution, showing most BSA members indicated they would not want to deny a boy the Eagle Scout award because he tells the review Board for the first time that he is gay. This reflects the saying “Hard cases make bad law.” The rare hypothetical in the poll which most BSA members would see as unfair is no indication whatsoever of the Scouting family’s views on requiring all Scouting units to accept “openly gay” young people.

The question is not whether or not openly gay “kids are better off when they are in Scouting”. The question is whether the safety and security of boys in general are better off with the “open and avowed” homosexual boys living and sleeping with them in close quarters. Is the example and influence of a 16 year old, openly gay, high school activist really in the best interest of other boys in the program? Open and avowed homosexual kids are NOT “better off in Scouting” when their conduct and behavior is a distraction to the mission of Scouting and to the other boys in the program.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials Say:

4. “The BSA would never consider a proposal that increased risk to young people.” 

OnMyHonor.Net Says

Based upon personal and candid conversations with BSA officials at the highest levels, the BSA is fully aware that this proposed resolution will absolutely increase the risk of boy-on-boy sexual contact in Scouting and yet of there has been no discussion or risk analysis done on this topic in any of the resolution reports or presentations. It is just short of dishonest for pro-resolution BSA officials to suggest that there will be no “increased risk”. BSA’s own Youth Protection videos indicate that “70% of abuse to boys is by teenagers”. Two-deep leadership will have to be at least three-deep for units with homosexual youth. Openly gay Boy Scouts who will likely want to be treated like everyone else will instead need to be tented separately and thus singled out and treated differently. The complexity of sleeping arrangements will create a myriad of social and legal liability challenges. Sexual awareness and harassment training will be required in all Scouting units. The BSA leaders setting forth the proposed policy clearly did not have the safety and security of the boys as their paramount concern. Enacting this resolution will result in more ugly litigation and will further the public scandal to the BSA, not to mention the tragedy of countless boys who will experience sexual, physical and psychological abuse.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials Say

5. “Some have asserted that this proposal will unduly interject sexuality into the BSA and take away parents’ rights to discuss sexuality at the time and place of their choosing”. 

OnMyHonor.Net Says

The proposed Resolution robs parents of the sole authority to raise issues of sex and sexuality with their kids. Parents should have the exclusive right to raise issues about sex and sexuality with their children in their own time and in their own way, in the privacy of their homes; not brought up by other older boys around a campfire. Allowing open homosexuality would inject a sensitive and highly-charged political issue into the heart of the BSA, against the wishes of the vast majority of parents.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials Say:

6. “Boy Scouts of America membership is unequivocally unified about the value of Scouting. Some have asserted that if this proposal is adopted—or if the Boy Scouts does not amend its current policy—Scouting will see significant and unrecoverable losses in membership and monetary support.” 

OnMyHonor.Net Says:

While the Voice of the Scout survey does show Scouting is popular because it brings great value, if the proposal is enacted, the program will immediately become unpopular among hundreds of thousands of its own members. A policy change would devastate the program financially, socially and legally as the BSA membership and revenues will drop instantly and the decision will gut a major percentage of human capital in the BSA. The BSA’s own estimates are that a policy change would create a “significant membership loss 200,000 to 400,000 youth”. OnMyHonor.Net’s internal estimates show the losses will be much higher at 500,000 to 600,000 youth leaving over a three-year period as the negative effects of the policy become evident. These estimates do not even calculate the hundreds of thousands of adult volunteers and parents who will leave also.

The financial impact would be enormous. The BSA’s own estimates show revenue losses at $30 million if a change is made. Camps will close, executives will be let go, and properties will be sold off as a result of the vast loss of finances from major donors, private foundations, and declining membership. If there is no change in policy, the BSA estimates that membership losses will only gradually decline over time and financial losses will be minimal.

Pro-Resolution BSA Officials Say:

7. The BSA is committed to listening to the Scouting family and engaging in open dialogue. 

OnMyHonor.Net Says:

If I ask my son to do his chores and he says “Dad, I am listening to you, I am not going to do my chores, but I am listening…” Is he really listening? No; he is merely hearing with his ears but mocking me with his actions or inaction. This is essentially what the pro-resolution BSA officials have done: ignored the vast majority of polling data showing the Scouting family clearly does not want this change and instead cited to polling on gay marriage and the moral acceptability of homosexuality in the wider culture. The authors of the resolution did listen to someone, but unfortunately it was not the Scouting family who overwhelming reject any change to the membership standards.

Closing:

To be as charitable to the authors of this resolution as possible, I believe the BSA leaders attempted in good faith to find a compromise “silver-bullet” solution to their dilemma of national controversy and pressure from traditionalists and pro-gay right advocates trying to hold the program together. They likely felt that they had a clever strategy that could stop the persistent tide of pressure and criticism from gay-rights activists while still controlling and possibly influencing openly gay Boy Scouts for good. The problem and the blind spots of the BSA officials are with their lack of understanding regarding the unintended legal consequences or how crafty and relentless their real opponents are in the gay-rights movement. This is especially true regarding the very serious lawsuits which would come almost immediately after this resolution is adopted. These legal challenges will blow the door of the new rule open to every member of the BSA, including adults. There has been no mention of this in any statements or documents made available to members.

Additionally, the pro-resolution BSA officials completely misunderstand what it means to be “openly gay” as defined and experienced by that culture in America. They also have lost sight of the true mission of the BSA by playing word games and basing moral and ethical choices on polling instead of on the “timeless values” of the Scout Oath and Scout Law. They lacked the moral courage to just do what was right and defend their policy and the values that support it. Finally, instead of doing what was clearly in the best interest of the boys, they were willing to compromise the safety and security of our young people by creating a policy designed to try to reduce the intense criticism the BSA has received under the false guise of “not denying scouting to any boy.” If the resolution passes, Scouting will eventually wither and become a much weaker movement that will fade into American history. In order for the Boy Scouts of America to continue as the robust jewel of American culture, its delegates must “Vote No” to the proposed resolution.

The author of this OnMyHonor.Net response is John Stemberger, an Eagle Scout, a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow, a former Scoutmaster, a Lifetime N.E.S.A. member and a father with two sons in Scouting. He is also an AV-rated Orlando lawyer who practices in civil and constitutional litigation. 

An Open Letter to BSA Delegates: 10 Reasons to “Vote No” on the Resolution

1) The proposed BSA resolution is logically incoherent and morally and ethically inconsistent. Under the proposed change in policy, open homosexuality would be officially consistent with the Scouting code throughout a Boy Scout’s life until the moment he turns 18, when it suddenly becomes a problem. Under the policy when a 16- or 17-year-old “open and avowed” homosexual becomes an Eagle before his 18th birthday, right after he turns 18 he is removed from Scouting.  No troop leader would want to put himself in the position of enforcing such an irrational rule.  A de facto change in the rule against openly homosexual adult leaders would also occur almost immediately. This inconsistency between the membership policy of youth and adults will provoke a “non-discrimination lawsuit by gay-rights activists groups against the BSA in which the association rights established by the Supreme Court will no longer be available. (See #7 infra.)

2) Opening the Boy Scouts to boys who openly proclaim being sexually attracted to other boys and/or openly identify themselves as “gay” will inevitably create an increase of boy-on-boy sexual contact which will result in further public scandal to the BSA, not to mention the tragedy of countless boys who will experience sexual, physical and psychological abuse. BSA’s own Youth Protection videos indicate that “70% of abuse to boys is by teenagers”. Two-deep leadership will have to be at least three-deep for units with homosexual youth. The complexity of sleeping arrangements will create a myriad of social and liability challenges. Sexual awareness and harassment training will be required in all Scouting units.  The leaders setting forth the proposed policy clearly did not have the safety and security of the boys in the BSA as their paramount concern.

3) The proposal forces and requires every chartered Scouting unit, regardless of religious convictions, to accept “open and avowed homosexual” boys in their program. The proposed resolution is much worse than the original idea for a local option where each troop would decide whether to allow open homosexuality in its unit. This proposal fails to respect or reverence the religious beliefs, values and theology of the vast majority of Christian churches which charter well over 70% of all Scouting units.

4) If the proposal is enacted, it will gut a major percentage of human capital in the BSA and utterly devastate the program financially, socially and legally. Of the faith based Scouting units, the vast majority of them are Latter-day Saints, Methodists, Catholics or Southern Baptists. Despite what denominations may decide for political reasons, the majority of local churches that charter Scout units will not be able to embrace this policy without violating their religious convictions. The BSA’s own “Voice of the Scout” surveys provide solid evidence that tens- and possibly hundreds of thousands of parents and Scouts will leave the program if the proposal is adopted. The financial impact from such a significant membership loss would be enormous. Camps will close, executives will be let go and properties will be sold off as a result of the vast loss of finances from major donors, private foundations and declining membership.

5) The Resolution robs parents of the sole authority to raise issues of sex and sexuality with their kids. Parents should have the exclusive right to raise issues about sex and sexuality with their children in their own time and in their own way, in the privacy of their homes; not brought up by other older boys around a campfire. Allowing open homosexuality would inject a sensitive and highly-charged political issue into the heart of the BSA, against the wishes of the vast majority of parents. Under the longstanding current policy, boys who have a same-sex attraction are not banned or removed from the program unless they act out in a manner that distracts from the mission of the BSA.

6) The proposed policy directly contradicts the BSA’s comprehensive 2010-2012 study which unanimously concluded last summer that prohibiting “open and avowed homosexuality” was “the absolute best policy” for the Boy Scouts.  Only months after the BSA affirmed the policy that was clearly in the best interest of its boys, a handful of top BSA officials caved from the pressure and criticism they received from their own adult peers. What kind of message are we sending to young people when the adults trying to teach them to be “brave” cannot muster up the courage to stand up for the values that are clearly best for the BSA? Sadly, instead of looking out for what is best for the safety and security of the boys in the program, BSA’s top leadership was more concerned about what is popular in the polls taken outside the Scouting family. To try to undermine the results of the unanimous 2012 study, the 2013 Voice of the Scout national survey was a carefully crafted tool to persuade and “condition” those surveyed to the idea of openly gay BSA members.

7) The proposed resolution leaves Scouting units with no options or legal protection if they refuse to allow open homosexuality among the boys of their units. This proposed policy completely retreats from the principles hard-fought in the U.S. Supreme Court case BSA vs. Dale in 2000. The legal protection will be completely removed for both adults and youth members. Scout units which refuses to accept or abide by the new policy will either have their charter revoked by national BSA leadership or become fully exposed to legal attacks for alleged violations of nondiscrimination ordinances. Even though the proposed resolution would not apply to adults immediately, legal experts estimate the new rule will also extend to everyone in the BSA, including adults, within only a couple of years because of lawsuits that will be brought by gay-rights activists under state non-discrimination clauses around the country once a gay Boy Scout turns 18 and is removed from the program.   The resolution is the first step in a two-step process in the whole program.

8) The effect of the phrase “sexual preference” in the BSA resolution could be used by LGBT activists to push for transgendered girls in the BSA. If a biological girl “prefers” acting out as a transgendered boy, she must also be allowed into any Boy Scout troop. In October of 2011 the Girl Scouts admitted a 7-year-old boy named Bobby Montoya into their program who preferred to be treated as a girl. Because the vague and undefined phrase “sexual preference” is used in the resolution, it opens the door and requires Scout units to accept any sexual preference expressed.

9) The “whereas” clauses in the resolution are symbolic and not part of the actual proposed policy. While the Resolution includes some positive “Whereas” clauses designed to take the edge off of the new membership policy language by advocating for some type of moral purity, “Whereas” clauses have never been binding in contract law or in the legal construction of a resolution. The only words that will become part of the official membership policy are the 141 words after “NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT…”

10) Top BSA leaders completely ignored the collective wisdom of rank-and-file Scouting family members when they proposed this resolution. Nationwide the BSA’s official “Voice of the Scout” survey shows respondents support the current policy by a supermajority of 61% to 34%. This survey also showed:

The author of this open letter is John Stemberger, an Eagle Scout, a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow, a former Scoutmaster, a Lifetime N.E.S.A. member and a father with two sons in Scouting.  He is an AV-rated Orlando lawyer who practices in civil and constitutional litigation.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: boy; boyscouts; bsa; cub; gay; gender; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; onmyhonor; scouts
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After the vote OnMyHonor.net released the following statement:

“OnMyHonor.Net along with other likeminded organizations, parents and BSA members, are announcing a coalition meeting that will take place next month in Louisville, Kentucky. There we will discuss the creation of a new character development organization for boys. We will host and facilitate a national coalition meeting of former BSA parents and other youth leaders who wish to return to truly timeless values that once made the BSA great.

“We grieve today, not because we are faced with leaving Scouting, but because the Boy Scouts of America has left us. Its leadership has turned its back on 103 years of abiding by a mission to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices. Instead, it is embarking on a pathway of social experimentation that we believe will place at risk the very youth the organization is entrusted to serve, while rendering as hollow the tenets of the Scout Oath. Many of us find that unacceptable, and we have a desire to explore how we might serve families and young people at the highest standard originally intended by Scouting’s founder, Robert Baden-Powell.

“While the meeting will be private, your voice is very important to us and will be represented there. We welcome your comments as we develop our plans. Please share your thoughts with us at Contact@OnMyHonor.Net.”

----------------------------------------------------

I’m pulling my boys out of the Cub Scouts.

I may have to put up with some things at work but I’ll be damned if I’m putting up with it at home with my children.

I have made a donation to OnMyHonor.net and I eagerly await the results of their meeting. I hope they can come up with something good. I really wanted my boys to learn all the other things the Boy Scouts had to offer.

One thing I do know is they will not be able to use the name Scouts. That's copyrighted by BSA.
1 posted on 05/25/2013 5:32:34 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: servo1969

The BSA are now Morally Bent.


2 posted on 05/25/2013 5:35:25 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

folk the gay agenda and the devil that brought it


3 posted on 05/25/2013 5:37:43 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: servo1969

Too bad that Scout is spoken for. God Scout would be a possibility and I’m not joking.

Boy Champions?


4 posted on 05/25/2013 5:38:05 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: yldstrk

That devil is heading for the roasting pit, but first the good Lord has to let the drama play out. What will each person choose?


5 posted on 05/25/2013 5:39:22 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: servo1969

Impact of Open Homosexuality in Scouting=Compaction=Reduction of Troop Movements


6 posted on 05/25/2013 5:39:26 PM PDT by bigheadfred ( barry your mouth is writing checks your ass cant cash)
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To: 17th Miss Regt; 1riot1ranger; 2001convSVT; 2banana; 3catsanadog; 50sDad; Abby4116; ...

To: Boy Scouts ping list.

Excellent arguments (completely ignored).


7 posted on 05/25/2013 5:39:48 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("There can be no dialogue with the prince of this world." -- Francis)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I’d be inclined to increase the emphasis on NA Indian culture and go with “Boy Warriors”.


8 posted on 05/25/2013 5:40:32 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Albion Wilde

Chicken Scouts.


9 posted on 05/25/2013 5:40:49 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Paladin2

I’d be real careful about Native American lore. Stuff about coping in the wilderness, fine. But no stuff about drumming up spirits or some nebulous “Great Spirit” in a pantheon.


10 posted on 05/25/2013 5:41:40 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: servo1969
My Son pulled himself out of scouts. He loved it, and it was good for him. He has worked very hard, and was well on his way to Eagle, had no doubt in my mind he was going to achieve his goal.

He said, "How can a Scout be 'morally strait' and be gay", he gets at 12 years old, what so many can not.

11 posted on 05/25/2013 5:41:50 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Paladin2

For the life of me, why the gay crap all over. There are other clubs for this, like Club Med or nude beaches or something. Why do they have to screw around with the rest?


12 posted on 05/25/2013 5:42:35 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: servo1969; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; UMCRevMom@aol.com; Finatic; fellowpatriot; ...

The BSA’s official position and argument before the Court in the BSA vs. Dale case was:

“The Boy Scouts asserts that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the values embodied in the Scout Oath and Law, particularly those represented by the terms “morally straight” and “clean,” and that the organization does not want to promote homosexual conduct as a legitimate form of behavior.”


13 posted on 05/25/2013 5:43:17 PM PDT by narses
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To: DYngbld

Technically it isn’t supposed to be implemented till 2014 so he could have pressed till the bitter end. But quite understandable how so many are disgusted with this caving, now.


14 posted on 05/25/2013 5:43:24 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: DYngbld

LOL, see #2.


15 posted on 05/25/2013 5:43:36 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: narses

Let alone, in most world faiths, “reverent”... nothing changed except the Scout leadership just chickened out.


16 posted on 05/25/2013 5:44:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Anything to invoke spirits for one’s own material psychological benefit on Earth is indeed power misleadings of creatures of God against God, if one believes.


17 posted on 05/25/2013 5:45:09 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: servo1969

Why did this happen? I’m baffled.


18 posted on 05/25/2013 5:45:53 PM PDT by peggybac (My boss I respect, my father I revered. Chris Rock, Mr. Obama is NOT my boss or my father.)
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To: lavaroise
For the life of me, why the gay crap all over. There are other clubs for this, like Club Med or nude beaches or something. Why do they have to screw around with the rest? Excellent question, excellent.

The answer is, in part, because straight men/boys (who may be quite oblivious to it) are more potent idol material to homosexual men/boys than other homosexual men/boys are.

19 posted on 05/25/2013 5:45:58 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: servo1969

It might be time for Patriot Scouts, with emphasis on conservative values.


20 posted on 05/25/2013 5:47:41 PM PDT by Gator113 ( ~just keep livin~ I drink good wine, listen to good music and dream good dreams.)
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To: lavaroise

I know personally something of the dangers of fooling around with American Indian spirits.


21 posted on 05/25/2013 5:48:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"Congress, on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of the signing of the United States Constitution, "acknowledged the historical debt which this Republic of the United States of America owes to the Iroquois Confederacy and other Indian Nations for their demonstration of enlightened, democratic principles of government and their example of a free association of independent Indian Nations."

Here is the wording of H. Con. Res. 331:"

etc.

22 posted on 05/25/2013 5:48:36 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: HiTech RedNeck

BSA is going to go down the tube faster than J.C. Penney’s after their obstinate experiment with gay advertising.


23 posted on 05/25/2013 5:49:25 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("There can be no dialogue with the prince of this world." -- Francis)
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To: Paladin2

That’s fine as far as it goes. I’m not speaking of this but of “thick” (spiritual) stuff. We honor Greek developments of democracy too, but we don’t utter paeans to Greek gods as we do....


24 posted on 05/25/2013 5:50:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: peggybac
Why did this happen? I’m baffled.

BSA doesn't have the money for the endless law suits. It is about the money, IMO the BSA signed their own death warrant. Many Churches will not let them recharter next year, or flat out pull the charters they already have. I suspect my sons troop will cease to exist.

25 posted on 05/25/2013 5:52:21 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: DYngbld

I am not privy to how they were getting endless law suits after they won (barely) the USSC case. Not denying it, just saying I hadn’t heard about it. I’m curious what HAS been happening (on an earthly plane). I think it’s mostly “social engineering.”


26 posted on 05/25/2013 5:56:42 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: lavaroise

The Cultural Marxists are using the gays as their wedge/battering ram to destroy the civilizing institutions that stand in the way of their collectivist utopia.


27 posted on 05/25/2013 5:56:46 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Argus

It’s from hell. Literally....


28 posted on 05/25/2013 5:57:53 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: servo1969
They can use the word scouts. Many organizations already do. The Baden-Powel Scouts use it. Hell even Girl Scouts use it. It is a generic term and can not be copyrighted.

That is one law suit they will not initiate. They will already be in heap big do do in a couple years. Once they have nothing but Homosexuals and Lesbians who are willing to hold scout meetings, the normal fathers and mothers have a tendency to vote with their feet.

I am already fashioning a letter that will explain why this Eagle Scout will never allow his five sons to join a BSA sponsored organization and will have NO PROBLEM finding a Conservative alternative.

I suggest everyone do the same. Be respectful, but firm.

29 posted on 05/25/2013 6:02:46 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
The law suits haven't happened yet, but you know they were coming. That is how the homos work, litigate until you can no longer afford to fight. This is my opinion, and based on my perceptions. Take it for what it is worth.
30 posted on 05/25/2013 6:04:13 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Jim from C-Town

#29

Perhaps I am misinformed.
I would be very happy to find that your information is correct.


31 posted on 05/25/2013 6:04:26 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: Jim from C-Town

BP Scouts, huh. Will have to look into that. I’m wasting too much time here tonight, ciao folks, but will be back tomorrow I think.


32 posted on 05/25/2013 6:04:35 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: DYngbld

Sounds like a rather nebulous danger with the USSC (for now) standing for where they were. They have put themselves in worse jeopardy now for the gay scout okay gay scoutmaster not ok position.


33 posted on 05/25/2013 6:06:04 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: lavaroise
They are a degenerate Evil people. They are in leagues with the Dark Forces of the World. Satan is a lover of the base nature of man. It is through Homosexual disordered acts that he brings society to evil.

Any Civilization that allows the destruction of it's unborn quickly turns to the most base form of sexual outlets. Pornography, fornication and especially homosexual acts become not only tolerated but glorified. Look at the ancient Greeks or Romans. The debauchery and immorality brought down these societies from within long before the Barbarians kicked in the rotting gates. It took the better part of two millennia for Western Civilization to recover from the moral and physical downfall of Rome. How long will we suffer when the American Experiment collapses from the same moral failings of men?

34 posted on 05/25/2013 6:11:48 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town
I suggest everyone do the same. Be respectful, but firm.

I have a letter already written that I will include with ever piece of mail sent to us from the BSA, asking for donations, opinions, feedback, etc..

I hate to leave a program that has been so good for my son. I hope we can find something else for him to do, he loves camping.

35 posted on 05/25/2013 6:12:24 PM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: servo1969

“The BSA would never consider a proposal that increased risk to young people.”

Everyone would be comfortable with 17 year old straight boys in charge of younger girls in the girl scouts. Everyone knows that isn’t looking for trouble because in 2013 US the sex drive of boys doesn’t kick in until 25 or so. Of course.

Freegards


36 posted on 05/25/2013 6:17:35 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: servo1969

“To do my duty, to God and my Country...” GONE!

“Morally straight” GONE!


37 posted on 05/25/2013 6:19:37 PM PDT by G Larry (Darkness Hates the Light)
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To: DYngbld

They won the law suits. They didn’t have to answer any more suites do to the fact that they got a SCOTUS ruling a decade ago.

The militant Homo’s worked on the corporate sponsors. They brow beet the major corporate sponsors. Instead of using their own power to out the Homo’s in a well directed and educational add campaign, the acquiesced to the pressure exerted by their corporate sponsors, who felt it from Homo Lobby.

They where cowards. They where not Trustworthy, They where not Loyal, they where not Helpful,, Thrifty, Brave, Clean or Reverent. They showed their true rainbow colors. They are poor leaders and even poorer men.

I have a sneaky suspicion that they will be very unhappy in four years when the SCOTUS tells them that under equality of law they will be required to allow gay scout masters that only days before where openly gay scout youths continue to ‘service’ the community of prepubescent and pubescent boys that are members of the scouts.

At that time those few Roman Catholic and Mormon churches that still have troops will be forced by their bishops to close those troops.


38 posted on 05/25/2013 6:20:55 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Albion Wilde

I dug out my Eagle Certificate, wrote my note, addressed and sealed the envelope. On Tuesday morning, once I go to the Post Office, it will be on it’s way to Irving, TX 75015. I’m done with them, told them so and now ask to be removed from the BSA ping list. I thank you for keeping me abreast of things Scouting.......but I’m done.


39 posted on 05/25/2013 6:25:28 PM PDT by Roccus
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To: Jim from C-Town

#38

We are living in a time ruled by lesser men.


40 posted on 05/25/2013 6:26:53 PM PDT by servo1969
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To: Albion Wilde

Indeed they are excellent. I guess that now that openly gay scouts will be allowed to join the other scouts will welcome them with open arms. And blanket parties on campouts.


41 posted on 05/25/2013 6:27:16 PM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I like God Scouts....it can have a division for boys and it can have a division for girls...easier to craft and model the programs in a moral and spiritual fashion for both genders with a single organization running the show.


42 posted on 05/25/2013 6:27:41 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (What if the DHS tried to provoke conservatives to revolt and no one came?)
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To: Jim from C-Town

Indeed, they talk of being discriminated in the past US military, when we all forget the US military was founded against gay like tyranny discrimination of the aristocrates in England. They got the whole history of the story wrong. It turns them into liars and persecutors with a false cloth of true abused dissidents. I believe some call this sociopaths.

The story of Soddom is true, imo, they would even seek to dominate angels in their perversities against all living things and beings, not leaving Lot and the visiting angels alone. It is obvious they live an antiharmoneous sexuality of domination and persecution of their targets, turning them through lies and pleas as being deemed of receiving punishment.

The communist liberal socialists are politically deep in that game of arrogance and spin, and they are all tainted by the arts and allures of the gay approach to the courts of opinion and deceit. They all are dependent on it.


43 posted on 05/25/2013 6:28:36 PM PDT by lavaroise
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To: DYngbld

My son bridged four years ago and decided to drop out. It just didn’t fit him anymore. My pocketbook was glad. They wanted a donation of $320 for him to continue.

Maybe our area was weird, but there were more goofy-looking adults in the uniform at potlucks than there were kids by 2 to 1. Living out their glory days or what? I found it somewhat creepy.


44 posted on 05/25/2013 6:31:49 PM PDT by mplsconservative (Barack Hussein 0bama has American blood on HIS hands!)
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To: Roccus

I admire you and applaud your action.

Never was a Scout myself. I wanted to be one desperately for a while. My grandfather got me a second-hand 1959-edition handbook, and used to carry that thing around, and read it cover-to-cover. Had every intention of joining the Scouts, but my father got transferred right at that time, and there was no chapter available. Time marched on.

Already have a letter in the mail, telling them to not even think about approaching me for solicitations or food-drives or whatnot. They are a disgrace to everything they once stood for. A disgrace to God and country. Their caving to deviancy has branded them as pathetic cowards. I have such utter contempt for them, I can hardly express it.

Cowardice and sodomy. That’s what the Scout uniform now stands for. Damn them, damn them, damn them. I spit in their faces.


45 posted on 05/25/2013 6:36:35 PM PDT by greene66
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To: DYngbld

“....he gets at 12 years old, what so many can not.”

.
Most do get it but their PC attitude doesn’t allow them to choose between right and wrong.

‘Who are we to judge?’, and ‘all culture are alike’, and ‘we should not be prejudiced toward those of differing views’ and ‘who are we to say what is right or wrong?’.

The road to hell (am I allowed to use that word on FR?) is paved with all kinds of bullsh*t, double talk and seemingly good intentions.


46 posted on 05/25/2013 6:54:32 PM PDT by 353FMG ( I do not say whether I am serious or sarcastic -- I respect FReepers too much.)
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To: servo1969

47 posted on 05/25/2013 7:06:22 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: lavaroise

“.............There are other clubs for this, like Club Med or nude beaches or something. Why do they have to screw around with the rest?”

The BSA is just a stepping stone towards another goal. Typical of the Marxists. The BSA, GSA, any organization with Christian mores is a target. Their ultimate goal is the demise of Christianity.

The United States of America must be humbled, reduced to a harmless blubbering mess incapable of defending itself much less defending other liberty loving allied Nations for the Marxist global goal to succeed.

The United States of America was founded in Christian belief. The Christian faith must be destroyed for the Marxists to succeed, thus any Christian organization must be poisoned to make irrelevant, or eliminate the Christian faith (or any other faith for that matter, but primarily the Christian faith, because of its huge following. Islam is a temporary alliance of useful idiots in the minds of the Marxists) for Marxism to succeed.

There can be no GOD to compete with Marxism for Marxism to succeed.


48 posted on 05/25/2013 7:45:25 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Proud contributer to the Free Republic Q-2 Freepathon.)
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To: lavaroise

The homos are Marxist tools:

http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”


49 posted on 05/25/2013 7:53:10 PM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: servo1969; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; GOPsterinMA; ...
RE :”The essence of the difference between the old policy and the proposed new policy is that the old policy prohibits “open and avowed” homosexuality for both BSA youth and adult members but the new policy removes that prohibition for boys and requires every BSA unit to accept “open and avowed” homosexual youth up to 17 years old. Importantly, the current policy already allows for BSA members who have a same-sex attraction but do not act out openly or inappropriately to be in good standing and to earn Scouting’s highest rank of Eagle. This is a critical point that has been obscured by pro-resolution advocates but one which is irrefutable.”

That is why I donated to the Boy Scouts for about 10 years in a row and are sad to lose them.
This has been standard conservative principle for decades.
We dont discriminate against anyone FOR WHO THEY ARE but we need to for WHAT THEY DO and promote.

Their new policy is simply caving to the Homo-rights movement. Really sad.

50 posted on 05/25/2013 8:24:34 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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