On masculinity: My father's generation were better at being men

The Guardian ^ | May 17, 2013 | Ian Jack

[2ndDivisionVet]

According to Diane Abbott, Britain is facing a crisis of masculinity. In a speech made on Thursday under the auspices of the thinktank Demos, the shadow health minister warned of a generation of angry, inarticulate young men who had no idea of their role in society. Raised on a diet of pornography and consumerism, they were "caught between the stiff-upper-lip approach of previous generations" and the "pornified ideals" of a youth culture that featured Viagra as a party drug and promoted sexism and homophobia.More prone to depression and less well educated than young women, and perhaps jobless despite a degree, they often found themselves trapped in the parental home as long-term adolescents who increasingly resented family life. In Abbott's phrase, they were hyper-masculine – that is, aggressive and misogynistic – without any understanding of the many-sided nature of a man's life and no talent for self-expression.

The speech was contested even before it was delivered. The columnist and novelist Tony Parsons wrote that men have never been better – never as articulate about their emotions, or more involved with their children and partners. To remedy any remaining flaws, he wanted boxing lessons in every school and a return to the "manly virtues" that would oblige good men to protect women and children by punching bullies "in the cakehole". Here was a man joining in the debate, as so many women writers have recently invited us to, and finding part of the solution in how men behaved in the East End c1948, or at least as how Ealing studios imagined they did. A world in which a man lands a blow on an adulterer and says: "That'll larn ya"; a world without "nonces" or killers photographing their dead 12-year-old victims; a world where grooming still means "Don't overdo the Brylcreem, sonny....

[Redleg Duke]

When I was a Scoutmaster, I told the parents that my job was to provide their boys with a safe environment in which to fail, because we learn more from our failures than from successes. The Mothers would be up in arms, but the Dads would nod knowingly.

For too many parents, “BSA” stood for “Baby Sitters of America”. “Mind our kid while we self-actual ice!”

[Redleg Duke]

That is “self-actualize”

[tomkat]

The great taboo, the veritable mastodon in the room, is that whatever societal 'advances' Western women have made since the caves are the direct result of the chivalry and doting forbearance of men.

Spanning the gamut from angelic to loathsome, women can be the most captivatingly awesome of creatures, or they can be Hellary!, or any of the countless variants between.

In our eternally mysterious yearning for their company, and in deference to their infinite idiosyncrasies, men routinely supply and refresh the various clubs used to beat us into seeming PC impotence.

Wimyn seem to think they want to wage war on men and rule the world, when the reality, absent that chivalry and forbearance, is that they wouldn't last a day.

<flame>
</give a damn>

[Dartman]

The Boy Scouts is a premiere organization on helping groom a young boy into a man. Promoting the values and virtues necessary....

I'm glad you mentioned that. For several years here in Canada, the Boy Scouts have been integrated. Yes, girls are allowed to join Cubs and Scouts, and do. Of course, boys are not allowed to join Brownies and Girl Guides (hopefully none have ever thought of doing so). I have always held that boys need to have an outlet available to them to just be themselves, benefit from wholesome male bonding, without any feminine distractions. I was in the Scouting movement from the late 50's through the 60's and loved every minute of it. What I learned in Scouting still influences a lot of my actions and values today.

[elcid1970]

If a woman gives me grief, I employ “the worst insult you can inflict upon a woman”.

I silently turn my back and walk away without looking back.

Anyway, what drives me farshemelt are the TV ads with the clueless dork husband and his stylish, savvy, sassy wife. Guess that’s part of the chickification of the media.

Though I don’t mind saying that if my wife brings me something she can’t open, I make a mighty effort & when the lid pops, I say “Oof!! It’s not you, that was really on there tight!”

[Dartman]

re Post # 2

Excellent, well tempered rant !!
I wholeheartedly support everything you wrote.

[Jack Hydrazine]

The UK chose to have a welfare state after the conclusion of WWII and this is the result.

[Vide]

Somewhat rich; the Grauniad lecturing on masculinity.

The following article appeared in their Sunday advice column last week: "My boyfriend says my vagina is repulsive".

My advice would be to find a boyfriend who doesn't read the Grauniad.

[CenTex]

“A guy today is actually looked down on or discounted if he opens the door for a young woman. “

“Not true here. You need to move to the South”

I am of the elder generation and I do it quite often, usually get a ‘Thank You!’ in return, but this is in redneck Texas...

[Jack Hydrazine]

“If the women don’t find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.”
-Red Green (1991 - 2006)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Green_Show
http://www.youtube.com/user/RedGreenTV

[WashingtonSource]

Demos is an extreme left-wing think tank. So, anything they promote has got to be bad.

[Tupelo]

Compared to the “Greatest Generation”, there is no comparison. Though I hold out hope for the latest one.
I am not sure about the Brits, but I suspect their masculinity started on a downward spiral about the same time as ours did. Around 1960-1965.
I blame Lyndon Johnson and The Beetles. He sparked the birth of the “Great American Chicken” and they sparked the rise of the “boy bands” that sound like girl bands.

[driftless2]

learn from our failures"

One of the huge differences between conservatism and liberalism is that conservatives know failure is a part of life and cannot be avoided for 99% of the population at some point in their lives. Liberals wish to create a world by which failure is impossible. Which is an impossible task in the first place and does a person no good by shielding the person from learning experiences. Like growing up in a perfectly insulated house. But when the person leaves the house, they are much more vulnerable to disease. Which is why I guess many you libs don't want to leave the cocoon.

[MissMagnolia]

Personally, I’ll take ‘handy’ (which implies a good dose of common sense, IMO) over ‘handsome’ any day! :-)

[MuttTheHoople]

Baby Boomers, Generation X, Generation Y and the Millennials have handled a severe depression, dust bowls, 40% unemployment, starvation and want?

Baby boomers killed a million communists in Vietnam...that war was lost by World War II and Korean War-generation leftists who were loyal to American Leftism and the Soviet Union. Gen X, Gen Y, and Millenials conquered Iraq in 3 weeks, captured Fallujah with only a couple hundred casualties (a city similar to Hue in Vietnam), drove out the Taliban in Afghanistan, came close to establishing a stable Government in Iraq.....and these will probably be undone by Leftist Baby Boomers still upset that Eastern Europe was liberated from their hero-nation The Soviet Union.

The point is, you give Americans an obstacle we still have enough Americans who can overcome it.

[MikeSteelBe]

“Compared to the “Greatest Generation”, there is no comparison.”

The “Greatest Generation” took out their racist trash at Nuremburg, while this generation’s racist trash are still ruling America.

[Travis McGee]

We’ll find out soon, when we face challenges as significant as those we faced from the 30s through WW2.

[RedMonqey]

She complained to management

This your answer

[meadsjn]

Could the Baby Boomers, Generation X, Generation Y and the Millennials have handled a severe depression, dust bowls, 40% unemployment, starvation and want? Could they have won World War II against three implacable foes who meant to destroy or enslave us? We'll never know, I suppose.

Some of us may not ever know, but this Crisis Era is already in full swing. Crisis Eras are defined as a major economic upheaval and a major war, usually in that order.

If history cycles as it has previously done, this Crisis Era will run from approximately 2005 to 2025, give or take a few years on each end.

Gen-x and the older Gen-y are already experiencing more than 40% unemployment.

Gen-x and Gen-y most likely will experience their "great war", likely already underway, likely against a commie/muslim alliance, likely against more and greater enemies than the Axis alliance, likely to heavily involve the mainland USA. If we do not win, there will likely come a New Dark Age.

Generations	Age in 2008 (max)	Age in 2008 (min)	Age in 2012 (max)	Age in 2012 (min)	Age in 2016 (max)	Age in 2016 (min)	Years Born	to	Came of age (20)	to	Enter Middle Age (40)	to	Became Elder (60)	to	Die-off (80+)	to
Hero (WW-II)	103	83	107	87	111	91	1905	1925	1925	1945	1945	1965	1965	1985	1985	2005
Silent (post Hero)	83	63	87	67	91	71	1925	1945	1945	1965	1965	1985	1985	2005	2005	2025
Boomer	63	43	67	47	71	51	1945	1965	1965	1985	1985	2005	2005	2025	2025	2045
Gen-x (Survivor)	43	23	47	27	51	31	1965	1985	1985	2005	2005	2025	2025	2045	2045	2065
Gen-y (Mellennial - next Hero)	23	3	27	7	31	11	1985	2005	2005	2025	2025	2045	2045	2065	2065	2085
Gen-z (next Silent)	3	-17	7	-13	11	-9	2005	2025	2025	2045	2045	2065	2065	2085	2085	2105

[RedMonqey]

The point is, you give Americans an obstacle we still have enough Americans who can overcome it.

I agree with you.

Although it looks hopeless, there is something in men that has been ingrained in them for millennium that cannot be suppressed in a few short years by nagging feminists.

Case in point my cousin's first born boy, from the beginning, was made to play with the gender neutral, non competitive games and toys.

Well, she divorced and her kids were babysit by our mom(this is in the seventies) Although us boys were older, and didn't want to hang around a four year old, sometimes we allowed him to "play' with us, whether it was baseball, tag or just roughhousing. And of course we have plenty of old plastic toy guns, plastic toy soldiers and old GI Joes, which he took to like a duck to water

And this boy who was never allowed to play with toy guns,or watch "violent" shows or even Bugs Bunny cartoons, went home and started "shooting" everything(with his finger gun)

His mom was surprised at his aggressiveness, never suspected us older boys would hang around her boy.

When he went to school and meet little boys his own age, she finally gave up her attempt to tame her little boy.

Today's boys' natural masculinity has not disappeared, just misdirected into video games and earlier sexual activity.

Just need good ole fashion male role models.