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Greatest Generation the Most Entitled
Townhall.com ^ | March 7, 2013 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 03/07/2013 5:44:14 AM PST by Kaslin

One thing nearly everybody agrees upon is that the "sequester" is a silly sideshow to the real challenge facing America: unsustainable spending on entitlements. Ironies abound. Democrats, with large support from young people, tend to believe that we must build on the legacy bequeathed to us by the New Deal and the Great Society. Republicans, who marshaled considerable support from older voters in their so-far losing battle against Obamacare, argue that we need to start fresh.

Perhaps it's time for both sides to consider an underappreciated fact of American life: The system we are trying to perpetuate was created for the explicit benefit of the so-called greatest generation, the most coddled and cared for cohort in American history.

I don't mean to belittle or demean the heroic efforts and sacrifices of those who served in World War II. But the idea that a whole generation deserves credit for what only some did is little more than an attempt to buy glory on the cheap. One of the egalitarian precepts that all Americans are supposed to subscribe to is the idea that one citizen isn't more worthy than another, simply by accident of birth. If you stormed the beaches of Normandy, you are due praise and honor. If you were simply born the same year as those who stormed the beaches, you're no more deserving of praise than someone born of any other generation.

Moreover, government was bending to the needs of the greatest generation -- for good and ill -- long before they did anything great. Historians William Strauss and Neil Howe made this argument in their famous 1991 opus "Generations." Before Tom Brokaw dubbed them the "greatest generation," Howe and Strauss called them the "GI Generation."

"The initials GI can stand for two things -- 'general issue' and 'government issue' -- and this generation's life cycle has stood squarely for both," they wrote. "The GI life cycle has shown an extraordinary association with the growth of modern government activity, much of it directed toward whatever phase of life they occupied."

When GIs were children, the White House held its first Conference on Children, and Congress created the first U.S. Children's Bureau and passed the first federal child labor law. They benefited from government-run schools in large numbers, and after the war from the aptly named GI Bill. And when the first wave of GIs approached old age, Howe and Strauss noted, the White House held its first Conference on Aging. Congress created the National Institute on Aging and passed the first federal age discrimination law.

"The entire modern growth in government spending has coincided with the duration of their adult life cycle," the authors noted.

Also, the GI Generation was deferential to authority long before anyone was asked to fight the Nazis. It was the most "uniformed generation" in U.S. history, the historians wrote. Nearly all the scouting organizations -- Boy Scouts (1910), Girl Scouts (1912), 4-H Clubs (1914) -- were launched to accommodate the GI.

Despite nostalgia for the New Deal, people forget how militaristic it was. President Franklin D. Roosevelt conceived of the New Deal as a "moral equivalent of war" effort and promised to use the tactics of World War I to fight the Depression. Nearly all the New Deal agencies were modeled on the war agencies of the Wilson administration. The Civilian Conservation Corps turned 3 million men into a paramilitary "tree army."

The National Recovery Administration, run by former general Hugh "Iron Pants" Johnson, aimed to organize the economy along the lines of war mobilization. On Sept. 13, 1933, he organized the largest parade New York had ever seen. Tens of thousands of workers marched in military fashion celebrating the mascot of the NRA, the "Blue Eagle." Similar militaristic pageants were held across the country.

FDR explained the purpose of the Blue Eagle in a fireside chat: "In war, in the gloom of night attack," he crooned, "soldiers wear a bright badge on their shoulders to be sure that comrades do not fire on comrades. On that principle, those who cooperate in this program must know each other at a glance. That is why we have provided a badge of honor for this purpose."

I have neither the space nor the inclination to pronounce on what was good or bad about all this. But as Washington grapples with the legacy costs of the "greatest generation" -- including the unsustainable burden of paying the retirement bills for the GIs' supremely entitled children, the Baby Boomers, perhaps it is at least worth recognizing that the government and the culture designed to benefit one generation has come at the cost of those that come after it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: entitlementprogs; greatestgeneration; socialsecurity; welfare
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1 posted on 03/07/2013 5:44:17 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

The greatest generation went to save Europe and lost America.


2 posted on 03/07/2013 5:57:52 AM PST by edcoil (Half of every class gratuates at the bottom, they are now politicians.)
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To: Kaslin

Interesting perspective.


3 posted on 03/07/2013 6:01:42 AM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: Kaslin

A guy who’s never put on his nation’s uniform is belittling the military service of men who risked their life and health for America. Nice. No wonder we can’t win elections any more.


4 posted on 03/07/2013 6:14:31 AM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Kaslin

” But as Washington grapples with the legacy costs of the “greatest generation” — including the unsustainable burden of paying the retirement bills for the GIs’ supremely entitled children, the Baby Boomers, perhaps it is at least worth recognizing that the government and the culture designed to benefit one generation has come at the cost of those that come after it.”

The above statement is spot on. Before I say what I’m going to say, let me say first; my dad was a decorated WWII combat veteran. Had one uncle KIA’ed in WWII. Had another uncle and an older cousin serve in the Big One. I am a Vietnam veteran. So, I have a great deal of admiration for those who served for sure. But, and here it is, the Greatest Generation, after WWII eventually took power in government and the private sector. Consequently, this generation shaped post war America into their vision of what they thought it should be. Because many of them served and many lost husbands, fathers, uncles, brothers, etc, designed the subsequent draft law so that their children (baby boomers/Vietnam generation) could easily evade it. There were several ways one could do so; marriage ( this one was eliminated about 1965 I think because just about anybody could take advantage of it, no power or political influence necessary) college, teacher, firemen, police, work for a co in defense industry, Peace Corp, Certain gov jobs such as congressional aides, Reserves or National Guard ( a very few technical and air units served in Vietnam but not many). So, those draft age kids whose ole man had some pull were able to quite easily avoid serving. This started the ball rolling for the baby boomer entitlement syndrome. In my way of thinking, this may have been the greatest disservice done to this country by the Greatest Generation. Sorry I was so long winded, my bad :)


5 posted on 03/07/2013 6:19:24 AM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: Kaslin

I respect Goldberg, but this is stretching it way too far.


6 posted on 03/07/2013 6:24:32 AM PST by expat2
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To: Kaslin

I first became aware of the “Gimme Generation” (long before Tome Brokaw came on the scene) when the lady who lived next door to my parents started going to the nearby church to get her freebies. She didn’t need them, didn’t even want them (to her credit, I suppose, she turned around & gave them away - like to my parents, who also didn’t need them.)
Nevertheless, she would go collect her butter, cheese & peanut butter. It opened my eyes. I started paying attention to “free stuff”. Anything that was being given away, they were all over it - again, whether they needed it or wanted it. Next time you’re at a trade show/expo, watch them. Reminds me of kids at an Easter egg hunt.
Isn’t this the same generation that understood (maybe even developed) the principle, “There’s no such thing as a free lunch”? I”m convinced there’s an underlying greediness that also makes them susceptible to something-for-nothing scams.


7 posted on 03/07/2013 6:50:09 AM PST by PA BOOKENDS
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To: Kaslin

The Greatest Generation reared lousy kids.


8 posted on 03/07/2013 6:52:29 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Try reading the article. It’s right there.


9 posted on 03/07/2013 7:15:41 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

No, he is quite expressly separating those out who risked their lives from those who simply were born in the same generation.

His larger point, though I’m not sure why he gets tangled in military and paramilitary weeds here, is that our old folks now are benefiting from a level of government largesse that is on average several times what the put into the system, bankrupting our country by the day, and not sustainable for those who follow.

A simple truth that that generation doesn’t like to hear or acknowledge.


10 posted on 03/07/2013 7:16:23 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: Kaslin

FU GENERATIONAL ENVY AND BLAME

whatever fault every generation before us here

They sure the ______ beat hell outta what i see around me today at age 55


11 posted on 03/07/2013 7:21:55 AM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Kaslin

Look at your paystub. SS and MC are deductions that are specific for those programs. Income tax is a different deduction.

SS and MC are supppppoooooosssed to have a separate Trust Fund, OAS/DI, where surplus contributions have always been kept. The funds in total have about $2.5 trillion in them.

Trouble is, it was “””””invested”””” (barf, barf, cough) in Treasury bonds.

If anyone can’t figure out what’s going on here, you need to really sit down, squeeze your brain, and think very hard.

Ask for help if you need it.

Mr. Goldberg ably demonstrates that function of National Review, to frame the conservative argument on behalf of new world order.

A good place to start learning about new world order is to do some research on American International Corporation, founded in 1915.


12 posted on 03/07/2013 7:30:46 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Kaslin

The “greatest generation” term was brought into prominence by Tom Brokaw, in his book of the same title.

Tom Brokaw is on the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations, the unelected, invitation-only, Wall Street-founded, unmentioned in the wider news media, unmentioned in school textbooks, arm of new world order that has comprised the leadership of U.S. Foreign policy for about 90 years.

Can you think of a more deceptive and manipulative tactic, than to label that “generation”, one that was massively deceived like all others, as somehow “better” than others ? Just think of the swelling pride, jealousy, etc., that the label stirs up in the general public.

Think McFly, think !


13 posted on 03/07/2013 7:40:40 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Oops, prominance.


14 posted on 03/07/2013 7:41:36 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Kaslin

Conservative news media personnel, for the most part, are completely unaware that they are working in the interests of new world order.

They think they are working on behalf of “big business”, “Wall Street”, etc.

Since the history of wall street and its pursuit of new world order is never mentioned in schools or textbooks, it is effectively “not part of history”, so it is viewed as a wacky conspiracy theory.


15 posted on 03/07/2013 7:44:59 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Kaslin
I can't help but cringe when I read articles of this theme. Isn't it bad enough that our government relentlessly pitts one group of Americans against another? Conservatives have to do it as well?

Let's just admit that we trusted our government, who sold us a lie, and who now tries to foment us to blame the injustice they caused on each other, instead of on them, where it belongs.

Let's get rid of them, face reality, and try to rebuild our society without the idea that we can use governemnt to take money form each other. We all know this, deep in our hearts, and just because they have whispered the opposite to us for 80 years, is no reason to go on believing it.

16 posted on 03/07/2013 7:51:39 AM PST by Red Boots
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To: Kaslin

TOWNHALL.COM HACK ALERT!

“One thing nearly everybody agrees upon is that the “sequester” is a silly sideshow to the real challenge facing America: unsustainable spending on entitlements. Ironies abound.”

Like Dubya and a GOP Congress passing the 7 Trillion dollar Medicare Part D debacle? Odd how Jonah leaves that ironic part out.


17 posted on 03/07/2013 8:20:31 AM PST by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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To: snoringbear

I graduated from college in 1969 and joined the Marine Corps. My memory of those times is somewhat different from yours. Your college deferment reverted back to IA once you graduated and it was very difficult to get into the National Guard or the Reserves. Most of the baby boomers that I know do not have the “Baby Boomer Entitlement Syndrome.” We served our country in time of war; went to college and earned a marketable degree; got a good job; got married and raised a family; paid our taxes and voted; saved for our retirement and many, including myself, retired early.


18 posted on 03/07/2013 8:31:39 AM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: PA BOOKENDS

I see the same thing in an 88 year old client of mine. (I’m a Health Aide) This behavior “pads” the rolls of the needy, giving Gov. agencies ammo to claim that poverty, etc., is getting worse. It also, I believe, has to do with the Great Depression, as those who experienced it as children seemingly WILL NOT throw anything away.


19 posted on 03/07/2013 9:00:43 AM PST by Amberdawn
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To: snoringbear
Because many of them served and many lost husbands, fathers, uncles, brothers, etc, designed the subsequent draft law so that their children (baby boomers/Vietnam generation) could easily evade it. There were several ways one could do so; marriage ( this one was eliminated about 1965 I think because just about anybody could take advantage of it, no power or political influence necessary) college, teacher, firemen, police, work for a co in defense industry, Peace Corp, Certain gov jobs such as congressional aides, Reserves or National Guard ( a very few technical and air units served in Vietnam but not many). So, those draft age kids whose ole man had some pull were able to quite easily avoid serving. This started the ball rolling for the baby boomer entitlement syndrome. In my way of thinking, this may have been the greatest disservice done to this country by the Greatest Generation. Sorry I was so long winded, my bad :)

The boomers produces almost 9.5 million veterans, overwhelmingly volunteers, Vietnam was overwhelmingly volunteers, unlike WWII which was overwhelmingly draftee (the army was manned by 93% draftees, the Navy Coast Guard and Marines had large numbers of draftees).

Those old leaders lost Vietnam while the boomers were winning every battle.

The boomers are just now finishing up military service with these last couple of wars of the last decade, but boomers were the last great warrior generation, and a very sizable percentage of the men of that generation served.

While the old leaders made the political decision to keep a low profile by not calling up the Reserves and Guard in a big way, they still accounted for more than 10% of our dead in Vietnam.

20 posted on 03/07/2013 9:13:08 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: expat2

Agreed. These WWII vets are the guys who supported blacklisting Communists in the fifties, and produced a great post-war America. They are why JFK had to spout rhetoric which sounds more Conservative now than our Conservatives today.

It is mindboggling how the intellectual wing of the Conservative movement wants to tie Liberalism to everything, even military service in WWII.

Liberalism is just a natural psychological adaptation to resource availability. Reproduce as fast as possible thorugh free mating, be selfish, and avoid danger. Some humans are genetically designed to be more prone to adopt the r-selected reproductive strategy which is Liberalism than others, but in the end, statistics blur it all out. Give a population free resources, as occurs when successful, and the overall psychology will trend towards an r-strategy, until the total effect is to crash the system - just like how mice will breed up until all food is consumed, and mass mortality sets in.

Th more I see of r/K Selection Theory, the more grossly ignorant our intellectuals look, and the more clueless their writings appear. Even bright guys like Goldberg just look like they are embarrassing themselves, trying to explain something they don’t begin to understand.


21 posted on 03/07/2013 9:59:55 AM PST by AnonymousConservative (Why did Liberals evolve within our species? www.anonymousconservative.com)
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To: KantianBurke
GO SEE A SHRINK THAT WILL HELP YOU TO GET OVER YOUR BDS.

What does this article have to do with President Bush and the GOP congress passing the medicare part D.

Do you even know who the greatest Generation was?

22 posted on 03/07/2013 10:08:29 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: PieterCasparzen

I am a retired senior citizen who receives social security, I still have to pay medicare taxes, otherwise my ss checks would be more then I get. So don’t tell me we don’t deserve medicare, since we paid in when we were working and still pay in


23 posted on 03/07/2013 10:18:39 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: SVTCobra03

“I graduated from college in 1969 and joined the Marine Corps. My memory of those times is somewhat different from yours. Your college deferment reverted back to IA once you graduated and it was very difficult to get into the National Guard or the Reserves. Most of the baby boomers that I know do not have the “Baby Boomer Entitlement Syndrome.”

Perhaps but maybe not so different. I am referring to those boomers who did not serve and avoided doing so primarily due to influence of their parents. Your comment about the Guard and Reserves is a good case in point. Towards the latter years of the war one had to “know somebody” to get in a unit. Perhaps one reason that our memories may differ is because it appears you and I went about college and serving opposite of each other. After serving three years in the Army of which one was in Vietnam I enrolled in college in the fall of 1969 and graduated in spring of 1972. So, I was on campus during the apex of the anti-war movement. And, I spent a lot of time listening to guys talk about various ways they were going attempt to beat the draft once they graduated and flipped to 1-A. The trick was to have one of the jobs or professions mentioned earlier lined up so that upon graduation they became employed quickly. Of course, if one knew somebody with some pull back home getting in the Guard or Reserves was a good ticket too.


24 posted on 03/07/2013 10:24:00 AM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: Kaslin

“What does this article have to do with President Bush and the GOP congress passing the medicare part D.”

Uh cause the subject of the article prattled on about the entitlement crisis which Medicare Part D, put into place by a GOP Congress & signed by Dubya, plays a big role in it. The townhall hack author conveniently left that out.

The day they stop with the selective memory nonsense and reject and repeal Dubya’s legacy I’ll cease fire.


25 posted on 03/07/2013 10:25:13 AM PST by KantianBurke (Where was the Tea Party when Dubya was spending like a drunken sailor?)
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To: Kaslin

I didn’t say that MC is not deserved; I was pointing out why it is.

It is fund that, yes, you and everyone gets deductions from the paycheck from to pay into.

That’s me point - gubmint will TAKE your money for a specific “program”, no problem. It’s the PAYING the benefits where gubmint has a problem.

If you pay me premiums under a “plan” for 30 years, then when I have to pay benefits under the “plan”, I keep cutting how much I pay... a kid could figure out that it’s really a scam.

The OASDI Trust fund had a surplus lo these many years.

Instead of leaving the cash in a big pile, the gave the cash to Congress in exchange for Treasury bonds.

That’s how we were all ripped off. Congress spent the cash. Now, OASDI has “bonds” ($2.5 trillion) that it should be able to sell a few billion of for cash if it needs it.

But that would mean Congress needs to GIVE cash to OASDI instead of GETTING cash from them. Congress hates that.

If government never made the promise, and let the private sector take care of its own healthcare and retirement, there would be no promise to break.

But they promised, and everyone was forced to participate.

IMHO, no how, no way, should people retired or near retirement be squeezed financially - but that’s the game that’s being played, as much as “the powers that be” can get away with. They see people only as slaves to be profited from, from the moment they’re born until the moment they die.


26 posted on 03/07/2013 10:38:56 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: AnonymousConservative

That was a truly great post!


27 posted on 03/07/2013 10:51:20 AM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: KantianBurke

It’s hard for conservatives/Republicans to be critical of long-held beliefs. I was like that. Republican=good, Democrat=bad.

I had no clue about the big money behind the scenes; it’s at the core of both parties. If Republicans think back and do some homework, they will find the “power behind the throne” is behind Ds and Rs. Hard to admit.

The Republican public image is “business”, so the part they play is to openly support business (but this is exclusively big business). Part D was a fat moneymaker handed to the insurance/medical industry.

Democrats help the same big businesses, they just do so quietly.


28 posted on 03/07/2013 10:53:27 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Kaslin

They’re old, and they earned it. Except for actually initiating our balance of payment deficits (”free trade”), our Baby Boomer generation gave the most support to the pathologies leading to economic decline and default (expensive behavioral modifications, police state, drug abuse fads, sexual confusions, anti-Second-Amendment domestic violence hysteria, regulations against new, small manufacturing shops, etc.).


29 posted on 03/07/2013 11:06:14 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: Kaslin

Shut up, Jonah. They earned every penny, and gave you your First Amendment rights all over again.

Spoiled rotten sissy punk Momma’s Boy!


30 posted on 03/07/2013 11:12:48 AM PST by miserare
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To: miserare

He isn’t the only one who thinks they haven’t earned every penny if you read some of the posts here


31 posted on 03/07/2013 11:18:42 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: KantianBurke
I repeat again: GO SEE A SHRINK
32 posted on 03/07/2013 11:20:44 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

“the so-called greatest generation, the most coddled and cared for cohort in American history.”

Let’s contrast the hardships of Jonah Goldberg with those of my 93 year old father.

Dad grew up during the Depression when people actually worried about getting their next meal.

Jonah has to worry about getting too fat.

Dad grew up before air conditioning, antibiotics and most vaccines. You sweltered in the summer, an infection could kill you, and polio was real fear.

Jonah has to worry about the A/C going out and whether he might catch a cold.

Dad graduated college right before Pearl Harbor. He spent several years moving his tent every other day with the German army shooting at him.

Jonah graduated college, he spent several years moving from apartment to apartment, and has to worry about being killed while playing Call Of Duty on his Xbox.


33 posted on 03/07/2013 11:21:47 AM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: snoringbear

Did you read post 20?

Did you know that more than 10% of the dead from Vietnam were Reserves and Guard?

Did you know that while the under 30 year olds were the strongest supporters of the Vietnam war in America, that by the time you were in college the public was pretty aware that the greatest generation leaders were not doing anything constructive in Vietnam or trying to win, the war was unpopular and support had dried up.

Personally I found the conduct of American leaders baffling, and was mystified by the incompetence they displayed both in civilian and military leadership, it wasn’t surprising that those jokers were not finding universal support from young men.

There was no one making any explanations or coherent defense of our strategy or goals there, the only thing driving enlistments was those of us who just felt the traditional patriotic drive to serve a hitch, or to have a military career, most of us had to find a way to overcome our revulsion at the leaders we would be serving, before we could enlist. I believed that every man should attempt to serve in uniform, but I understood that Vietnam became difficult to explain once we realized that the leaders weren’t interested in doing the work they needed to do to make the battlefield fighting pay off, they didn’t care, and people came to feel that and recognize it.


34 posted on 03/07/2013 11:28:46 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: familyop
anti-Second-Amendment

The boomers restored the second amendment that the 1960s greatest generation had taken away.

Compare gun the second amendment of the 1960s to today.

35 posted on 03/07/2013 11:34:17 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Pelham

Excellent post!

Too bad my 19 year old brother never got back from the South Pacific to whine and complain like Jonah.

My brother gave his life carrying the wounded back from the front lines in the Battle of Saipan.


36 posted on 03/07/2013 11:40:33 AM PST by miserare
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To: AnonymousConservative

The most destructive period in American history and the one which killed us forever, is the time from roughly the early 1930s to the late 1970s, the people running the country then killed America forever, today we live in the ashes of that legislation and the court decisions, and we know how short our days are.

It wasn’t just the socialism from America’s first, ‘El Presidente for Life’, the death blow came from the Kennedy election.

From unionizing government, to Vietnam, to the 1965 Immigration Act, JFK was the end of us.

“However, if there is one man who can take the most credit for the 1965 act, it is John F. Kennedy. Kennedy seems to have inherited the resentment his father Joseph felt as an outsider in Boston’s WASP aristocracy. He voted against the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952, and supported various refugee acts throughout the 1950s. In 1958 he wrote a book, A Nation of Immigrants, which attacked the quota system as illogical and without purpose, and the book served as Kennedy’s blueprint for immigration reform after he became president in 1960. In the summer of 1963, Kennedy sent Congress a proposal calling for the elimination of the national origins quota system. He wanted immigrants admitted on the basis of family reunification and needed skills, without regard to national origin. After his assassination in November, his brother Robert took up the cause of immigration reform, calling it JFK’s legacy. In the forward to a revised edition of A Nation of Immigrants, issued in 1964 to gain support for the new law, he wrote, “I know of no cause which President Kennedy championed more warmly than the improvement of our immigration policies.” Sold as a memorial to JFK, there was very little opposition to what became known as the Immigration Act of 1965.”


37 posted on 03/07/2013 11:46:38 AM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Pelham
Dad grew up before air conditioning, antibiotics and most vaccines. You sweltered in the summer, an infection could kill you, and polio was real fear.

Air conditioning came pretty late for most people for instance my boomer brother who didn't live in an air conditioned house in Houston Texas, until his teens, that was after he had Polio. Houston schools without AC was really something.

A lot of people don't realize how primitive life was for many boomers of the 1940s, and 1950s, and even the 1960s, many people were still waiting for indoor plumbing in 1960.

38 posted on 03/07/2013 12:00:14 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

Agree with all you said. I do question your source (not you) about the 10%. Based upon my unscientific observation (I was there 65/66) there were nowhere close to enough Guard and Reserve troops over there to achieve that kind of KIA number. But hey, that was just my experience. Can you kindly point me to your source?


39 posted on 03/07/2013 12:23:01 PM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: snoringbear

National Archives, Statistical Information about Fatal Casualties of the Vietnam War, scroll down to DCAS Vietnam Conflict Extract File record counts by MEMBER COMPONENT CODE ( Service Component) (as of April 29, 2008 )

A point of trivia, you may not know that a National Guard, Airborne Ranger Unit served with distinction in Vietnam.

http://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics.html#branch


40 posted on 03/07/2013 12:30:32 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

“A point of trivia, you may not know that a National Guard, Airborne Ranger Unit served with distinction in Vietnam.”

You got me on that one. What unit was it?


41 posted on 03/07/2013 1:27:27 PM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: snoringbear

“Company D (Rangers) 151st Infantry went to Vietnam to perform reconnaissance and intelligence gathering missions. Once again, the 151st distinguished itself in battle achieving an impressive combat record. On May 13, 1968, 12,234 Army National Guardsmen in 20 units from 17 states were mobilized for service during the Vietnam War. Eight units deployed to Vietnam and over 7,000 Army Guardsmen served in the war zone. Company D (Ranger), 151st Infantry, Indiana Army National Guard arrived in Vietnam in December 1968. As part of the II Field Force, the Indiana Rangers were assigned reconnaissance and intelligence gathering missions. Operating deep in enemy territory, Ranger patrols engaged enemy units while conducting raids, ambushes and surveillance missions. “Delta Company” achieved an impressive combat record during its tour in Vietnam; unit members were awarded 510 medals for valor and service.”

“On 20 November 1969, Co D (Ranger), 151st Infantry (Airborne) ‘Stood Down’. Mission accomplished, job well done!
The operations were turned over to Company D (Ranger), 75th Infantry, just as smoothly as they had been turned over from Company F, 51st Infantry (LRP) on 26 December 1968. What is so significant about this change of designation is that Company D (Ranger), 151st Infantry (Airborne) was a National Guard unit from Indiana.”

“Six members of the unit made the supreme sacrifice on Ranger missions. They, and lots of other members were decorated for Valor and Duty. In all, 19 Silver Stars, 175 Bronze Stars, 86 Army Commendation Medals, 120 Air Medals, 110 Purple hearts, 19 Indiana Distinguished Service Crosses, and 204 Indiana Commendation Medals were awarded.”


42 posted on 03/07/2013 1:49:55 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

Yep, I found it

http://www.ranger151.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

I’ve been thinking about your 10% KIA number. I’m guessing that good portion of the 10% was made up of junior officers as most of these guys had reserve commisions and not regular Army commissions. Can’t speak to the marines or Air Force but they probably had a similar setup. Being that you were in the Marines maybe you ccan answer that question? There just weren’t enough Guard and Reserve guys that served over there, especially in combat units to achieve such a high KIA rate.


43 posted on 03/07/2013 2:03:29 PM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: snoringbear

I showed that almost 5900 Reservists and Guard were killed, that sounds like a lot of Reservists to me, it is more than 10% of the total losses, as far as who they were attached to when they died I don’t know.

I was Army, not Marine.


44 posted on 03/07/2013 2:15:24 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: ansel12

Some people think modernity similar to today suddenly appeared in America after WWII and that boomers were born into a world of door to door carpeting and microwave ovens, hot tubs and Jimi Hendrix, Ford Mustangs and central heating, college dorms and computer games.

In 1960, 4 years before the last year of the boomer births, (boomer Sarah Palin was born in 1964), here is how close to the old days many Americans still lived.

1960 life in America (not 1940, or even 1950):

17 percent of 1960 homes had no interior bathroom.

In 1960, 12.8 percent didn’t have hot water.

7.1 percent of homes in 1960 had no interior running water of any kind.

40.8 percent of households owned automatic washing machines

17.1 percent of households owned dryers.

Air conditioners were only found in 12 percent of homes in 1960, while 92 percent of 2009 homes are air-equipped.

The average 1960 home had only two bedrooms.


45 posted on 03/07/2013 2:37:41 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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To: Kaslin

My brother, who is a bit jaded, said the WWII generation sold the family farm, squandered the money, and allowed TV to raise the baby boomer generation (the only generation more entitled and spoiled than themselves), collected government benefits all along the way, got a reverse mortgage on any property they owned - and made sure to leave NOTHING to their own family, and nothing but debt and the burden of an overarching all powerful federal government to their posterity.


46 posted on 03/07/2013 2:46:40 PM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: ansel12

” that the greatest generation leaders were not doing anything constructive in Vietnam or trying to win,”

Lyndon Johnson and his administration were a generation older than the greatest generation. The soldiers of WWII were mid level officers, they were not the politicians setting policy during Vietnam.

“There was no one making any explanations or coherent defense of our strategy or goals there,”

It’s what happens when politicians blunder their way into a war and then let mission creep take over.

1955-60, President Eisenhower warned against sending American combat troops into an an Asian land war and sent only materiel and advisors.

1960-63 President Kennedy ramped up our military presence to 16,000 advisors. But he found South Vietnam President Ngo Dinh Diem difficult and Kennedy managed to get Diem assassinated on November 2, 1963. Twenty days later President Kennedy himself was assassinated and a leaderless Vietnam became Lyndon Johnson’s problem.

1963-68 President Johnson committed American combat troops to Vietnam, ignoring wiser heads. He also ignored the uniformed military and let civilians like Robert McNamara and Clark Clifford run the war from the White House.

Not wanting to endanger the funding for his Great Society welfare state Johnson employed a half-assed defensive strategy that allowed the Communist North to set the tempo of the war. The title of Admiral U.S. Grant Sharp’s 1986 book said it all: ‘Strategy for Defeat: Vietnam in Retrospect’. Admiral Grant commanded the air war over North Vietnam from 1964-68 and no one was in a better position to see how bad the LBJ strategy was.

Nixon had the opportunity to change all that when he won the Presidency in 1968. But he waited 4 years to implement Operation Linebacker, the B-52 campaign, and he never advocated the invasion of North Vietnam and the destruction of its government.


47 posted on 03/07/2013 2:57:37 PM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: ansel12

I grew up outside Washington DC in the 50s and 60s. Air conditioning was for movie theaters and restaurants and not average homes. July and August meant the temperature and humidity both sitting in the 90s. Not as rough as Houston, but bad enough.

“A lot of people don’t realize how primitive life was for many boomers of the 1940s, and 1950s, and even the 1960s, many people were still waiting for indoor plumbing in 1960.”

If you wandered over the Blue Ridge you could certainly find situations like that. Probably still can in some of the mountain hollows.


48 posted on 03/07/2013 3:07:53 PM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: ansel12

“the 1965 Immigration Act, JFK was the end of us”

Truer words were never spoken. You have to have a few grey hairs to remember what America was like.


49 posted on 03/07/2013 3:24:06 PM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio, for amnesty, Spanish, and the Karl Rove machine.)
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To: Pelham
Lyndon Johnson and his administration were a generation older than the greatest generation.The soldiers of WWII were mid level officers, they were not the politicians setting policy during Vietnam.

The "greatest generation" doesn't really match up with any single generation, it is really a vague and undefined creation of the left that they find useful, Silver Star awarded Lyndon Johnson was a sailor during WWII as were the other Vietnam Presidents, Kennedy and Nixon and Ford, all Navy WWII vets.

Here is a list of the leaders of the Vietnam War, Presidents and civilians (political), and the military, ALL OF THEM were WWII vets except for Schlesinger.

United States of America Political:
Dwight D. Eisenhower was the 34th President of the United States from 1953 to 1961.
John F. Kennedy was the 35th President of the United States from 1961 until his death in 1963.
Lyndon B. Johnson was the 36th President of the United States from 1963 to 1969.
Richard Nixon was the 37th President of the United States from 1969 until he resigned in 1974.
Gerald Ford was the 38th President of the United States from 1974 to 1977.
Robert McNamara was the 8th Secretary of Defense, serving under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson from 1961 to 1968.
Clark Clifford was the 9th Secretary of Defense, serving under President Lyndon B. Johnson from 1968 to 1969.
Melvin R. Laird was the 10th Secretary of Defense, serving under President Richard Nixon from 1969 to 1973.
James R. Schlesinger was the 12th Secretary of Defense, serving under President Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford from 1973 to 1975.
Henry Kissinger was the 8th National Security Advisor and the 56th Secretary of State, serving under Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford from 1969 to 1977.

Military:
Earle Wheeler was a United States Army General who served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1964 to 1970.
Thomas Hinman Moorer was a U.S. admiral who served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1970 to 1974.
William Westmoreland was an American General who commanded American military operations in the Vietnam War from 1964 to 1968.
Creighton Abrams was an American General who commanded American military operations in the Vietnam War from 1968 to 1972.
Frederick C. Weyand was a U.S. Army General who was the last commander of American military operations in the Vietnam War from 1972 to 1973.
Elmo Zumwalt was an American naval officer and commander of American naval forces in Vietnam.
William W. Momyer was commander of the U.S. Air Force Tactical Air Command and the commander of the 7th Air Force.
John S. McCain, Jr. was an American admiral and Commander-in-Chief of the Pacific Command.

50 posted on 03/07/2013 3:31:33 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is a longtime supporter of homosexualizing the Boy Scouts (and the military).)
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