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Obamanomics And The Jewish Deli Dilemma
Townhall.com ^ | February 24, 2013 | Austin Hill

Posted on 02/24/2013 4:01:18 AM PST by Kaslin

Did you hear the big news from the world of small business? Jewish delis are closing in both Los Angeles, and New York City.

The trend has been a long time in the making, especially in New York City where Jewish delis’s used to number in the thousands and now total less than one hundred. Yet the Los Angeles Times reported this “news” just this past week, and the details that the report included – and the details that were ignored– point to some far greater problems.

The article, written by Journalist Tiffany Hsu, notes that the decline of the L.A. area Jewish delis “seems to be accelerating partly because of health concerns over the schmaltz-spread fare...” This may very well be the case – certainly American adults are inclined to being more “health conscious” with their dietary choices, rather than less, and food categories of all types that are perceived to be un-healthy are probably headed for a declined in consumption.

From there, the article suggests that “skyrocketing” food costs have driven some delis out of business. That may be true, too, but what has caused that to happen? The article suggests that “mass exports” of food to Japan is the culprit on the price spike. The story also blames the decline of LA-area Jewish delis on “the recession,” “too much competition” from other restaurant sectors, and the notion that younger consumers “don’t understand delis and comfort food.”

It was only one small news story in the LA Times. But let’s think through some of the ideas in this news story – ideas reported as “facts” – and consider what they mean from an economic standpoint. Consider, for example, the notion of “too much competition.” What exactly does this mean?

Obviously the more competitive a marketplace is, the more difficult it is for any particular business entity to survive and thrive. But how do we know when the level of competition is appropriate, and when it is “too much?”

Americans are accustomed to fierce competition in other arenas – in sports, especially, and even in the arts and entertainment. Similarly, most of us would never say “my favorite team didn’t make it to the Super Bowl this year because there was too much competition in the NFL.”

But when it comes to local small businesses, we often succumb to this vague, un-defined notion that there is this magical amount of competition that’s “just right,” and if our favorite business can’t compete, then therefore there is “too much” competition.

Yet in our free market economic system, we understand that competition is a good thing. If competition means that certain business entities or entire business categories decline because of the competition, then so be it. It is fairer and more just to allow businesses to rise and fall according to the market demands of consumers, rather than imposing artificial “limits” on the number of people who are to be permitted to participate in an industry.

But what are we to make of this idea that the delis’ failure is because consumers “don’t understand?” If a consumer chooses to “not understand” any particular business, and therefore chooses not to patronize it, then that consumer has made their choice – haven’t they? We’re all better-off if, win or lose, we honor and respect the choices of consumers, rather than presuming that they are ignorant if they make a choice that we don’t like.

And guess what the LA Times article about the delis completely ignored? The impact of government policy on small businesses. Nowhere did it reference the expansive and onerous mandates placed upon business via Obamacare, the impact on business owners of the President’s payroll tax hike, or his income tax increases on “rich people.”

No, the LA Times apparently wasn’t interested in how the President’s income tax hikes have taken money away from what the I.R.S. designates as “Subchapter S Corporations” (sometimes abbreviated as “S-corps”), and how this has effectively taken money directly out of small corporations, many of which operate small businesses. Likewise, the article made no reference to the fact California voters approved an increase in state income tax rates for “rich people” (thus leading to even less revenue in Subchapter-S Corporations) on their ballot last November, nor did it acknowledge that California has for years been on a trajectory of higher and higher unemployment insurance and workers’ compensation mandates for businesses.

It is perhaps more comfortable to pretend that our current government policies are not problematic, and blame the struggling economy on “too much competition” and consumers who “don’t understand.”

But how many more delis must fail, before we get honest and acknowledge that government is our problem?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; US: California; US: New York
KEYWORDS: abortion; california; deathpanels; economy; newyork; obamacare; obamanomics; obamarecession; obamataxhike; smallbusiness; taxes; zerocare

1 posted on 02/24/2013 4:01:34 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
the notion that younger consumers “don’t understand delis and comfort food.

So many 'youngers' simply do not understand nutrition. Raised by parents who fed them the convenience of fast, processed foods or dinner from a box, and by mis-guided FDA guidelines that fat in food is bad, they have simply not developed an appreciation for the real pleasure of real foods.

So they eat sugar, carbs, GM corn and trans-fats. PopTarts for breakfast, McDs for lunch and a nice box of Mac and Cheese for dinner. No wonder we have obesity and diabetes at record levels.

2 posted on 02/24/2013 4:15:11 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Kaslin

Kind of an idiotic article.

Government policies aren’t driving Jewish delis out of business, since such policies don’t have any specific aspects that target this category of restaurant vs. others.

IOW, if consumers are spending about as much money total at restaurants as last year, which is presumably true, then declining business at Jewish delis is the result of changing consumer preferences, not government policies, too much competition, or anything else.

I get very tired of these claims that taxation, etc. burdens small business and drives them out of business. Businesses primarily collect taxes, not pay them.

When a cost, such as a tax or regulation, goes up, a business raises prices to recoup the additional cost and maintain profit margins. Unless consumers refuse to pay the additional cost, or more often because competitive businesses are not subject to that cost for one reason or another, the business is unaffected.

Assume a state that had previously not had sales tax on groceries and puts it in. Suddenly the grocery’s cost goes up by 7%. Does it somehow absorb that cost or pay it out of profits? Of course not, it just goes onto the bill to the customer.

Unless people stop eating as much, which would be good for most of them, the grocery’s business and profits are unaffected. There are some marginal impacts, mostly to groceries near the state line, who will lose some business to stores across the border who still don’t charge sales tax. But they’re minor.


3 posted on 02/24/2013 4:17:34 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Kaslin

I’m still brooding about the lose of coffee shops in NYC - the kind that used to put up with Jackie Mason for hours on end. The Polish Tearoom seems to be the last of them...


4 posted on 02/24/2013 4:20:30 AM PST by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Kaslin

Well looks like a lot of the 18 -24 Jewish youths that voted for Obama have put their dads out of business.../s


5 posted on 02/24/2013 4:21:52 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: Kaslin; Yehuda
Obamanomics And The Jewish Deli Dilemma

Jewish delis are closing in both Los Angeles, and New York City.


6 posted on 02/24/2013 4:25:52 AM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: Kaslin

“...younger consumers “don’t understand delis and comfort food.”


To hell with nutrition.....has our younger generation completely forgot about how good deli foods taste?

I don’t see how my generation (66+) have lived so long on TASTY FOOD and actually enjoyed the trip and survived.

Sometimes I wake up at night (slobbering all over myself) and remember the dream I just had about eating a delicious Ruben sandwich at a Jewish deli. I’m not talking about a “chain” or large deli but about a small Ma & Pop deli.

Too bad we don’t have anything like that here in South Texas. I guess I’ll have to go up north again to experience the atmosphere while attacking the delicacy up there.


7 posted on 02/24/2013 4:28:24 AM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: Sherman Logan; FatherofFive; Kaslin
Good food or bad, just the cost of it is going up just like with fuel. The overall effect is of a narrowing our choices,i.e.,where and when we travel and what we eat. In a conspiratorial sense, its an attempt th herd us all into a human equivalent of a CAFO, Confined Animal Feeding Operation, for Agenda 21 purposes.

More people a getting interested in the local food option theese days which is a very good thing. It generally cost more but it is upfront pricing in that it isn't highly subsidized like corn an soy beans and it costs less from a health care standpoint because of its better nutritional value.

Controlling food is essential to controlling the people. And I believe that's what 's going on. It is the Gulag principle. We have the 2nd ammendment, but if we're too weak to pull the trigger, what use is it?

8 posted on 02/24/2013 4:30:05 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: tbpiper

Actually the food prices and everything else are going up in the stores because of the high gas prices. We need to get rid of Ethanol or at least the one made from corn


9 posted on 02/24/2013 4:50:08 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: tbpiper

I am curious why you think our choices are being restricted as to what we eat.

You can still eat a 1950s diet if you choose. What used to be called staples are still available at the store, though you have to look for them since their shelf space is WAY down. Just take the staples home and cook them up.

We have, as a people, chosen to go for fast, convenient options over inexpensive and healthy ones. That’s not a government plot to control us, it’s just our own poor choices. As a group, not individuals.

Food is often less expensive than ever before in history. You can buy 50 pounds of rice for <$20. You can easily eat for a month on 50 pounds of rice. Not particularly enjoyably, but it provides plenty of calories.

BTW, in the grocery yesterday I saw frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. LOL


10 posted on 02/24/2013 4:55:19 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Kaslin.
...guess what the LA Times article about the delis completely ignored? The impact of government policy on small businesses. Nowhere did it reference the expansive and onerous mandates placed upon business via Obamacare, the impact on business owners of the President's payroll tax hike, or his income tax increases on ”rich people.” No, the LA Times apparently wasn’t interested in how the President's income tax hikes have taken money away from what the I.R.S. designates as ”Subchapter S Corporations” (sometimes abbreviated as ”S-corps”), and how this has effectively taken money directly out of small corporations, many of which operate small businesses. Likewise, the article made no reference to the fact California voters approved an increase in state income tax rates for ”rich people” (thus leading to even less revenue in Subchapter-S Corporations) on their ballot last November, nor did it acknowledge that California has for years been on a trajectory of higher and higher unemployment insurance and workers' compensation mandates for businesses.

11 posted on 02/24/2013 5:02:37 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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The Obama Tax Hike

to go with

The Obama Recession


12 posted on 02/24/2013 5:19:02 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: tbpiper

After living in NY and NYC and in Europe and then in the South and beyond, my observation is that Americans do nopt care at all about good food.

In laws willl aften say, hey you New Yorkers, whenever you get together all you talk about is food.

True. And the obesity I find around those who eat just to eat and don’t know anything about good food, just quantity and fat an sugar, are the obese people, generally speaking, of course.

The fact that delis don’t exist in the South and beyond, says everything I need to know about appreciation for food.

I know a guy, gone now, who was a deli owner, whose son attended an Ivy league school and went on to become an amazing succes, as well.

Took care of his parents in their later years, as they took care of him in his younger years.

If delis go out of business, it’ll tell me more about confusion of family priorities and expectations of young people and vocational choices.

But delis are a staple of and a corner stone of soem micro cultures in this country.

German, Jewish, and Italian - see “Moonstruck”.

Like Buck says to Mularkey, in Band of Brothers, as he’s trying to create a stew, “what do you know about cooking? You’re Irish.”

Maybe not much, but we know about goood food and where to get it.

It is a thing often spoken about around here.


13 posted on 02/24/2013 5:24:27 AM PST by stanne
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To: Sherman Logan
“BTW, in the grocery yesterday I saw frozen peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.”

That is pathetic!

14 posted on 02/24/2013 5:24:27 AM PST by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

The acceptance of the premise that families can be raised and communities can thrive without mom being aroind (home) as a rule and not an exception, is the problem there.


15 posted on 02/24/2013 5:27:46 AM PST by stanne
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To: tbpiper
"We have the 2nd ammendment, but if we're too weak to pull the trigger, what use is it? "
16 posted on 02/24/2013 5:29:20 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: Kaslin

Why buy from a deli when you can get it at Walmart or Ingles?


17 posted on 02/24/2013 5:43:24 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....The fairest Deduction to be reduced is the Standard Deduction)
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To: Kaslin
11 states with more people on welfare than employed

Last month, the Senate Budget Committee reports that in fiscal year 2011, between food stamps, housing support, child care, Medicaid and other benefits, the average U.S. household below the poverty line received $168.00 a day in government support. What’s the problem with that much support? Well, the median household income in America is just over $50,000, which averages out to $137.13 a day. To put it another way, being on welfare now pays the equivalent of $30.00 an hour for a 40-hour week, while the average job pays $25.00 an hour.

http://www.michaelsavage.wnd.com/2013/02/11-states-with-more-people-on-welfare-than-employed/

18 posted on 02/24/2013 5:49:09 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: tbpiper; Sherman Logan
Ditto to #10. Calories are cheap, probably cheaper today than ever in history. Grocery store prices are high enough to induce sticker shock, but this is not a paradox. Some of the increase is inflation, but the basic driver is that people are not just buying calories. They are buying convenience, better taste, freshness, variety, even organics (often at huge premiums, which I refuse to pay because I don't like wasting money to subsidize a superstition).

The last time I looked up the number, the farmgate price of the raw commodities amounted to fourteen cents on the dollar on the typical American's grocery bill. AND Americans are paying less than seven percent of disposable income on food prepared at home. About 40 percent of our food dollars are spent eating out, but the combined total is still less than ten percent of disposable income, the lowest figure in the world. These percentages have been trending downwards for years, except for the proportion of food eaten away from home, which has risen over time. Again, convenience, and food as a service.

Food is an incredible bargain.

The biggest cost driver in your grocery bill is labor. I have no problem with this; grocery stores are labor intensive, but they give me 24/7 access to an astonishing global food chain, and I am happy to pay for this. Plus, I have many alternatives if I want to eat cheaper, so the market functions. The second biggest cost factor in food is energy. Team Obama hasn't yet demanded that farmers run combines with windmills, but at the rate we're going, that'll come in the next four years.

19 posted on 02/24/2013 5:51:44 AM PST by sphinx
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To: stanne
After living in NY and NYC and in Europe and then in the South and beyond, my observation is that Americans do nopt care at all about good food.

If Americans DID care about good food, franchises like Old Country Buffet would never exist. I shudder when I think about the food at those places.

20 posted on 02/24/2013 5:52:20 AM PST by randita
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To: Kaslin

Jewish Deli Dilemma? Free ham.


21 posted on 02/24/2013 5:56:20 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Sherman Logan
When a cost, such as a tax or regulation, goes up, a business raises prices to recoup the additional cost and maintain profit margins.

Then the government entities that raise the tax or instituted the regulation turn around and call the businesses "greedy" when they raise prices. And people swallow that lie.

Every time the price of gas goes up, Democrats are out there squealing about the greedy oil companies. It's gotten to the point that everyone thinks oil companies are Satan personified. People refuse to acknowledge that market principles are at work. I make the point that if oil companies are truly greedy, then why does the cost of gas go up and down? Why doesn't the cost always stay high?

22 posted on 02/24/2013 5:58:49 AM PST by randita
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To: Kaslin
food prices and everything else are going up in the stores because of the high gas prices

The average 'mileage' for a morsel of food on your plate is about 1500. A lot of fuel is expended just to get food from it's source to your plate. Making fuel cheaper won't make the food any better.

Buy local if you can. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck so to speak. Ethanol fuel is a very expensive dog-and-pony show that we could all do without. Trading food for fuel is nonsensical.

23 posted on 02/24/2013 6:00:44 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: sphinx

AND Americans are paying less than seven percent of disposable income on food prepared at home.


Huh? When all four of us are at home, we can spend over $1K a month on grocery bills. That’s a lot more than 7% of my disposable income.


24 posted on 02/24/2013 6:03:08 AM PST by rbg81
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To: Sherman Logan
I want to cover two of your comments:

I am curious why you think our choices are being restricted as to what we eat.
And
Food is often less expensive than ever before in history.

Ok, first, try to buy something that doesn't have corn in it and corn that's not geneticly modified. If you're successful in that, try the same with soy beans.

Some folks may point to a grand conspiracy but the reason, I think, is more related to your comment about the price of food. That would be because both soy beans and especially corn are highly subsidiezed. So what you don't pay at the grocery is made up in taxes.

I can go to a local convience store and get a 44 oz soda for 69 cents. Why? It's because high frutose corn syrup is un-naturally cheap.

What we'er ending up with is an industrial food system that cranks out more empty calories and less nutrition than ever before.

And as far a choices go, where do you get your raw dairy products?

25 posted on 02/24/2013 6:20:47 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: Kaslin

Delis’s?


26 posted on 02/24/2013 6:21:27 AM PST by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: sphinx
Food is an incredible bargain.

There can be some discussion today about what is actually "food". I'm not so sure it is such a bargain given the food related disease rates we have today. A lot of that is related to behavior in that people tend to go for the 'cheap calories'. That's why we have kids today that are both obese and malnourished.

27 posted on 02/24/2013 6:29:32 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: Kaslin
LA Times apparently wasn’t interested in how the President’s income tax hikes have taken money away from what the I.R.S. designates as “Subchapter S Corporations” (sometimes abbreviated as “S-corps”), and how this has effectively taken money directly out of small corporations, many of which operate small businesses. Likewise, the article made no reference to the fact California voters approved an increase in state income tax rates for “rich people” (thus leading to even less revenue in Subchapter-S Corporations) on their ballot last November, nor did it acknowledge that California has for years been on a trajectory of higher and higher unemployment insurance and workers’ compensation mandates for businesses.

Read that paragraph to a regular man or woman on the street and ask them how they feel about it. Most likely, they won't even understand the paragraph, and they'll just look at you with a blank stare, and respond with "What?".

That's where the problem lies, with the majority of the people not knowing what's being done to them, and most not even understanding the issues.

Since liberals can count on the ignorance of most voters, they feel they can get away with almost anything, and they have, and that's why we end up with an Obama and democrats in control of such large states as California and Illinois and New York and Massachussetts and others.

People deserve what they get, but they always end up blaming the wrong people for their situations, and thus, we end up with more of the same, which means that, this country is doomed.
28 posted on 02/24/2013 6:35:07 AM PST by adorno (Y)
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To: DH

We’re close in age and appetite! On a recent visit to my local deli, I found the price of my favorite, the Brisket Combo (with the obligatory pickle spear)surpassed $10 after taxes.

That’s what’s killing delis. Food cost & overhead.


29 posted on 02/24/2013 6:37:23 AM PST by pingman (Trust a lib? Surely you jest!)
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To: DH

Well, if you dreamed of a Reuben (cheese/corned beef/sauerkraut) it wasn’t a Jewish deli because the combo of meat and cheese is not Kosher.

Since Passover is approaching, a grocery store I frequent had gefilte fish in the *International* section. This is a rare occurrence. I bought two jars, along with a bottle of borscht, for a few indulgent lunches in the coming weeks. Wish I could have also found a jar of pickled green tomatoes.

I can make all these foods myself, but no one else in my family will eat them and they all take time and some take ingredients not easily found out here. I have lived w/o real Jewish delis for decades, so I had to learn how to cook like Bubbeh.

This weekend, I am having guests and will serve a real potato kugel made with schmaltz and gribbens (which I made last week). I have served this before and everyone loves it, but I always make 2x the amount needed so I have the leftovers.

This is real Jewish soul food. I can find a Reuben and even decent corned beef at many restaurants. Chopped liver, gefilte fish and borscht however, is non-existent out here unless I make it. Then I have to eat it all by myself because everyone else is grossed out by it.

Years ago, one of the supermarket delis had real pastrami. My husband bought some and when I went back to purchase more, I couldn’t find it. I asked the deli manager who responded:”Oh, it is over here. We just cut off all that pepper because people wouldn’t eat it.”

All this food was once cooked at home from simple ingredients by people who considered it everyday food for poor people. Search out the recipes, stockpile the ingredients, which are not always common any more, and they can all be homemade.


30 posted on 02/24/2013 6:51:02 AM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Kaslin

Labor cost and associated government costs are what is killing delis.


31 posted on 02/24/2013 6:57:10 AM PST by batterycommander (a little more rubble, a lot less trouble)
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To: Kaslin

It’s Mayor Bloomberg’s restrictions on salt, butter, soda, and anything that’s good in yer comfort food.


32 posted on 02/24/2013 7:05:07 AM PST by batterycommander (a little more rubble, a lot less trouble)
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To: tbpiper

Modern technology has also probably made us two-thirds less active than we were. The 1950s diet was still horrendous health-wise, with twice many eggs, tons of sugar, cooking fat, butter and oil and less nutritious meat like chicken than we use today. The stay at home housewife not only took in many less calories but burned actually burned them the hard way, through her domesticated lifestyle: three hours a day doing the housework, an hour walking to and from the shops downtown an hour on the shopping itself, another hour making dinner, play with the kids etc. Not a routine I would trade for the world but it does go to show the importance of exercise in the battle to maintain a healthy balance


33 posted on 02/24/2013 7:11:39 AM PST by erlayman
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To: Kaslin

The story misses the mark.

Jewish delis were usually kosher at one time. Once they became ‘kosher-style’(non-kosher), their days were numbered. Any Eastern European food just isn’t that popular with Americanized tastes.

Still plenty of kosher food available around Jewish communities. It’s just more centered around grocery stores, supermarkets or caterers. And they still have traditional dishes. And a lot of American Jews have learned to prefer Middle Eastern/Israeli food.

The ubiquitous Lubavitch movement always has access to kosher meat and milk products.


34 posted on 02/24/2013 7:12:35 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Sherman Logan
I get very tired of these claims that taxation, etc. burdens small business and drives them out of business. Businesses primarily collect taxes, not pay them.

Taxation burdens our customers and drives them out of our stores - especially when it is coupled with the climate of economic fear this Administration is cultivating. Probably doesn't effect Walmart or grocery stores quite as much, but anything remotely discretionary is taking a big hit right now.

In the past we might have chalked this up to traditional American "fiscal prudence", but that isn't really the driving force behind the recessionary spiral we are re-entering.

35 posted on 02/24/2013 7:32:25 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: reformedliberal

When you said “Reuben” you reminded me of my favorite deli in town only it’s now the ONLY deli in town. Important to`Support Your Local Deli’, so I’ll go there for lunch this week.

I remember their pastrami was to die for and last time I ate there I was tempted, just tempted, to smuggle some pastrami in my coat pocket, order a sandwich, add the extra pastrami so the sandwich stood half a foot high, and when the owner came by I would point to it & marvel, “What a wonderful sandwich! My compliments to the cooks.” But I demurred.

This actually happened at Lindy’s in New York. When Lindy saw the monster sandwich, he screamed, loped into the kitchen & began throwing plates.

Anyway, too much processed/frozen/microwaveable food, and not enough staples & home cooking. What’s not to understand?


36 posted on 02/24/2013 7:32:35 AM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: erlayman

Let me throw in another element and that is the actual act of eating. Except for going out to eat and holiday feasting, daily easting has pretty much devolved into something you do while doing something else considered more important, like driving, TV,video games, etc. The once normal gathering around the table for dinner with Mom, Dad, and the kids has become the exception, I think, rather than the rule. Much to society’s dissadvantage.


37 posted on 02/24/2013 8:20:06 AM PST by tbpiper
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To: tbpiper
try to buy something that doesn't have corn in it

Potatoes. Rice. Flour. Beans. Carrots. Peppers. Meat. Fish.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get my point.

You are quite right about processed foods, which was pretty much my original point. If you are willing to prepare your own food from staples, as (non-rich) people all used to do, then you can avoid corn and soy.

If you want the convenience of prepared foods, you will take what the market assembles.

The price of corn went up a bunch a couple of years back due to the idiotic policy of making auto fuel out of food. Resulted in a bunch of pissing and moaning by liberals about how poor people around the world were being starved by greedy American agro-corporations. Then the price went down, and the same liberals pissed and moaned about poor Mexican farmers being driven off their land by cheap American corn.

38 posted on 02/24/2013 9:36:43 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: elcid1970

Anyway, too much processed/frozen/microwaveable food, and not enough staples & home cooking. What’s not to understand?


True, dat.

A couple times a year, my husband goes off w/his buddies, so I don’t have to think about cooking for anyone except me and the dog. Several times, I just stocked up on microwave food from the grocery. YUCK! None of it was worth eating.

I think I am going to get a brisket and make corned beef and pastrami. It’s been years since I did it myself, but it was so worth it.


39 posted on 02/24/2013 1:52:10 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal

I stand corrected.

Us South Texans think of a deli in the north as a kosher place but since extremely few exist in our area we are ignorant of the facts you present.

The same applies to Yankees who even dare to think what real Mexican food consists of. Northern Mexican food does taste like the real thing down here. For those who think Mexican food is HOT, you are sadly, just plain wrong.

Different cultures/different locations in the United States.


40 posted on 02/24/2013 1:55:20 PM PST by DH (Once the tainted finger of government touches anything the rot begins)
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To: DH

So true.

I have tasted real Mexican home cooking and it isn’t 10-alarm, just subtle and interesting with the blending of so many flavors.

A Mexican friend once told me that every woman in Mexico has her own family recipe for mole. Mine has coffee and dark bitter chocolate and pineapple, among other flavors. It never comes out the same twice, though.

I am a Yankee, though: I do put beans in my chili. So, no one is perfect.


41 posted on 02/24/2013 2:01:37 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: DH

So true.

I have tasted real Mexican home cooking and it isn’t 10-alarm, just subtle and interesting with the blending of so many flavors.

A Mexican friend once told me that every woman in Mexico has her own family recipe for mole. Mine has coffee and dark bitter chocolate and pineapple, among other flavors. It never comes out the same twice, though.

I am a Yankee, though: I do put beans in my chili. So, no one is perfect.


42 posted on 02/24/2013 2:04:30 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal

Used to be that brisket & flanken were inexpensive substitutes for T-bone & porterhouse. Marinate, grill, slice thin across the grain. Not cheap any more.

I remember corned beef & cabbage as a kid. Nowadays I wonder if those packaged corned briskets are any good.

Cooking something, anything on the stove is ALWAYS better than nuking convenience food. The microwave is for emergency use only.


43 posted on 02/24/2013 2:17:54 PM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: elcid1970

Yeah, I had sticker shock last time I looked at a brisket. Even the whole muscle in cryovac is still over $3/lb.

I confess to buying the packaged corned beef at times.Not too bad. I prefer the flat to the point and I add more pickling spice to the cooking water. Then, I will trim the excess fat using a meat slicer to get thin slices. The packaged ones do shrink alot.

Still, if I recall, it only takes a few days in brine in the fridge to make your own. I have to go find a recipe, because I don’t really remember. It seems to me it was juicier, more tender and shrank less than the pre-corned ones. Ok, I checked: it takes a week in the brine and I remember using Quick Cure.

I steam the cabbage separately and serve w/boiled new potatoes w/sour cream. We prefer the cabbage still a bit crispy. This discussion is making me hungry.


44 posted on 02/24/2013 2:31:55 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: reformedliberal

Steamed cabbage...instead of boiled to a fare-thee-well. Have to try that, the rice steamer works well with veggies.

New potatoes w/corned beef & cabbage - that’s not a calorie disaster. Good working fare - the kind my grandmother made and my coal miner grandfather liked.


45 posted on 02/24/2013 5:03:50 PM PST by elcid1970 ("The Second Amendment is more important than Islam.")
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To: Sherman Logan; Ezekiel; reformedliberal
" You can buy 50 pounds of rice for <$20." ≤ .40/b Not in NYC. In my semi-low end local supermarket on the border of upscale meets barrio-going gentrified, I just bought a 20 lb. bag of Carolina white rice on sale for $10... got it home with $3 delivery charge + tip for 4 flights of stairs)... = .50/lb. (the delivery admittedly included other food...) Of course the wife then reminded me she prefers BROWN rice...it was on sale for 5 lb. for $4... = .80/lb Cheapest fresh greens are collards at 0.99/lb., EVERYTHING else is $1.99 and up... romaine lettuce this week is $3.49/HEAD... Broccoli - $2.49 / lb... Of course NYC is a very captive market.... I can't speak for others but imho the main reason delis are closing is cost + rent + health...J Jews, observant or not who are the main consumers (a) are much more diet conscious especially for processed meats and simply won't spend that money as often as before on food they don't view as healthy when eaten regularly. Non- jews love deli too but without regular customers coming in every week, no deli can afford stay open long. I LOVE good deli food, but even if I could afford it I wouldn't eat it more than 1x/ month, whereas decades ago I was eating deli 1-2x WEEK... PS - KOSHER BRISKET in a manhattan kosher butcher or kosher SUPERMARKET is 8.99-9.99 / lb, AND UP.... if you're lucky you can get it on sale for 6.99 at kosher butcher in the Holy City of Brooklyn... /s
46 posted on 02/24/2013 9:28:49 PM PST by Yehuda
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

47 posted on 02/25/2013 5:22:20 AM PST by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do !)
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