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The Obamacare Nightmare Comes True
Rush Limbaugh.com ^ | November 13, 2012 | Rush Limbaugh

Posted on 11/13/2012 1:39:42 PM PST by Kaslin

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: A bunch of CEOs are in Washington. These people are beside themselves. They're having to hire outside consultants to pore through the Obamacare legislation and advise them, tell them what they have to do to comply. And they are asking for some kind of relief.

You've got John Schnatter at Papa John's pizza, the Applebee's people and a number of other restaurant chains are saying, "We have no choice." If they're gonna keep our products priced where they are, which is the price they've all determined is the most sensible for profit stability and affordability for customers, they're gonna have to let some employees go or they're gonna have to convert them to part time, something, in order to stay status quo. And if they can't stay status quo, if their prices skyrocket, their businesses suffer. So there's no win-win here, and these CEOs are being harassed by extremist liberals via Twitter and Facebook and direct e-mail. They're being threatened because of their public statements of what changes they might have to make in the way they run their businesses.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. These major CEOs in town, they want to meet with Obama and they want to have a chat about this because they don't know what they're gonna have to do to comply. Nobody can understand the legislation. And Obama doesn't know what's in it, and the bottom line is he doesn't care what's in it. "Mr. Limbaugh, how in the world can you say that the president --" because he doesn't care about the details. All Obama is interested in is the following. That after a certain number of years of this mass confusion, the only solution will be single payer. Whatever hell happens between now and then is the price to pay for it. We are headed to single-payer health care, the government being the payer, the government being the determining factor in virtually everything.

Now, the states have to start setting up these exchanges, the federal exchanges. The states have to do it where people will go and buy their insurance or pay their fine for not doing so. The deadline was originally November 16th, but the regime has relaxed that. Some of these deadlines have been moved to next year, early next year, I think February because there's not enough time now and the regime wants to appear flexible. Now it's easy for me to say sitting here behind the Golden EIB Microphone, if I was a Republican governor, I would say no. I'm not setting up an exchange. I'm not gonna do it because the federal government cannot. It's a quirk in the law.

Now, they could go back and fix this I suppose, but as the law currently exists the federal government cannot set up the exchanges in the states. Somebody, some staff member, whoever wrote this thing, made an error. Believe me, there are errors in this thing that nobody even knows exist yet. It's 2,700 pages. One of the reasons it's 2,700 pages is that virtually every special interest group was given treatment. It is an absolute jigsaw puzzle nightmare. And where it's going to end up is single payer, by design. We didn't win the Senate, so there's no rolling this back. There could be some fun, there could be some delays if the governors refuse to set up the exchanges.

Now, as far as citizens are concerned, the exchange will be a federal office building somewhere with a phone number, and you'll call, and you'll find out what you have to do to be legal and have your insurance and how much it's gonna cost you and what the fine options are. Or you can go there and stand in line like you do at the DMV. I venture to say that over half the population has no idea what's in store for them. But there will be no recourse now. And so resulting confusion -- and don't think Obama's knows the details of this. He doesn't care. I mean, he was running around saying, (imitating Obama) "You'll be able to keep your doctor. If you like your doctor, keep your doctor. You didn't build that, and if you like your policy, you can keep your policy." You can't. None of that's true. He was either lying through his teeth about it or he doesn't know, doesn't matter which, but there's equal weight on the "he doesn't know."

Obama's not a roll up the sleeves detail guy. He says, "I want affordable health care for all Americans." Pelosi and Reid start writing the bill and whoever, that's it, Obama's done, goes plays golf. The intricate details don't matter, but these CEOs, the people that have to deal with it are hiring outside consultants to help them stay in compliance, to stay legal. They're also asking for a delay in eliminating current tax rates. Meanwhile, Bill Kristol on our side, "Go ahead, let's just raise taxes on the rich. Hell with it. Got all these liberal Democrats, Wall Street, Hollywood people, let's go and raise their taxes, supporting Democrats anyway." The bottom line is that hurts the country.

You can't take money out of the private sector and have the private sector grow. All that's gonna grow is government, Santa Claus. And a growing percentage of our population would just as soon vote itself a lifestyle it doesn't care to make the effort to earn. And Obama knows it and is willing to play off of it.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: The mayor of Realville. I want, with the assistance here of Betsy McCaughey, who is an expert, starting way back in the days of Hillarycare, she is a scholar and an expert in all of this. She has a piece in the New York Post today, and it's about Obamacare, and this is now Realville. We're not talking about the abstract any longer. It's the law of the land. This is Realville.

"President Obama’s re-election and Democratic gains in the US Senate end any possibility of repealing the Obama health law. It will roll out as written, imposing major changes soon on you and your family. If you are uninsured because you can’t afford it, help may be on the way. But if you are one of the 250 million Americans with coverage, there are big problems ahead. If you get your health insurance through a job, you might lose it as of Jan. 1, 2014. That’s when the new 'employer mandate' kicks in, requiring employers with 50 or more full-time workers to provide the government-designed health plan or pay a fine."

We've talked about this. You know about it in the abstract. You either pay to be covered or pay a fine. And you know, if you've been listening here, the fines in the first couple, three years are much cheaper than the policy. So you pay the fine and you're legal. You don't go to jail. You pay the fine, you're okay, you're in compliance.

What does that do? It takes more people out of the private insurance market, by design. Because what must happen here is the private insurance market must cease to exist for Obamacare to realize its ultimate dream. So January 1st, 2014, the employer mandate kicks in, and it requires bosses with 50 or more people full time, to provide the government-designed health plan or pay a fine. "The government plan is so expensive, it adds $1.79 per hour to the cost of a full-time employee."

Now, stop and think of this. "Rush, that doesn't sound like much." Well, you pay it. You have the business and $1.79 an hour per employee additional to be in compliance with federal law. That is how expensive the government plan is, $1.79 per hour to the cost of a full time employee. "That’s incidental if you're hiring neurosurgeons but a hefty increase for hiring busboys and sales clerks," and the like in small businesses. Currently, employers in retail and fast-food industries pay less than half that to cover their workers."
They're paying less than a buck eighty an hour to cover their people.

"To avoid the costly mandate, some employers will push workers into part-time status. Other employers will opt for the fine. Either way, workers lose their on-the-job coverage." You're either gonna be converted to part-time or you're not gonna be covered and your company will pay the fine because it's cheaper than insuring you. Even worse then that, they risk losing their jobs. Even the fine is 98 cents an hour to the cost of labor. So to insure every employee, a buck seventy nine an hour, to pay the fine, 98 cents an hour, and that's enough to make some employers cut back on their workforce.

In this economy, folks, you have to understand -- and a lot of people on the left don't. People on the left actually think there shouldn't be any profit. "Why should somebody make money treating the sick, Mr. Limbaugh? It's not fair. Why should there be profit in selling services that the American people need?" They really ask that. It's how they've been educated. Who needs profit? Why can't you get everything for what it costs? They don't understand that the producers will not get in the game for that. They don't understand the service providers won't get into business for that. They don't understand the business can't stay in business not making money. But education in this country has been so successful at demonizing profit, profit equals screwing people, profit equals taking advantage, profit equals the rich. This is the nature of leftist education for two or three generations, if not more.

So when this happens, you're gonna have all kinds of protests. I mean, you might have riots against these companies. You're already starting to see the beginnings of that with Papa John's and Applebee's, as they are announcing the effect in the changes in the way they do business because of the Obamacare law. Obama supporters, probably organized, are harassing them via e-mail and Twitter and getting everybody all lathered up. It's what's coming. That's Realville. There's no stopping this. There's no rolling this back.

"As many as a third of employers, according to research, are considering canceling coverage totally. This is the result of a survey done by McKinsey & Co., which is a management consultant group. They are hired by businesses to help run in a streamlined way, make corporate hires, executive hires, decisions, and so forth. Now, that doesn't mean that you'll be uninsured. You just won't have the choice. If your employer cancels coverage, you're out the window. When you file your taxes -- this is also part of Obamacare that is now Realville -- when you file your taxes, you're gonna have to show proof that you are enrolled in the one-size-fits-all plan approved by the federal government. It's mandatory starting January 1st, 2014.

I, El Rushbo, do not have health insurance. I'm a self-employed individual who chooses not to have it. I pay it as I go. I can't tell you how much money I've saved over the course of my life, by the way. See, I have been very fortunate. I have been able to not get caught up in the very real fear that everybody has that they're gonna die tomorrow and that somehow having health insurance is gonna prevent that or that they're gonna be broke tomorrow. So, to me it's like anything else, I pay for it as I need it. No longer. I will not be able to do that, nor will anybody else. I am going to have to go get an insurance policy, and it's gonna be the same policy that everybody else gets, starting January of 2014.

The freedom to decide what kind of health insurance you have or whether or not you want to roll the dice and have any -- you know who this is gonna affect? Young people are like me, "I don't need it. I'm not gonna get deathly sick tomorrow. I'm only 24 years old. Why the hell do I need it?" Sorry, pal, you don't have the option, you gotta have it. And if your employer doesn't provide it for you, that's no excuse. You are gonna have to have it or you are gonna pay a fine. And when you file your taxes, you will have to show proof that you're enrolled in one of these plans or pay the fine. And if you don't enroll in a health care plan, the IRS is empowered -- it's the law -- they can withhold your tax refund.

You know how many people plan on a huge tax refund and think that they're screwing the government in the process? That's another story. You know how many people plan on that? If you don't do what Obamacare mandates that you do January 1, 2014, if you don't have mandated insurance, they are going to withhold your tax refund. And there is a brand-new form that you have to fill out in addition to your 10-whatever just for this. If you have been going without insurance or if your employer drops coverage, your options will be enrolling in Medicaid if you're eligible or buying a government-approved health plan at your local state exchange.

Again, go through this: "When you file your taxes, you will have to show proof that you are enrolled in the one-size-fits-all plan approved by the federal government. It’s mandatory, starting Jan. 1, 2014," about 13 or 14 months from now. If you don't, "the IRS will withhold your refund," so the government gets paid your fine.

"If you’ve been going without insurance, or your employer drops coverage, your options will be enrolling in Medicaid (if you’re eligible)," and they're making that easier to qualify for, "or buying a government-approved health plan on your state health exchange. What’s an insurance exchange?"

I explained it earlier. Betsy McCaughey says, "It’s like a supermarket that only sells" one thing. "The exchange will sell only the government-designed plan." There will not be a smorgasbord in the exchange. You're not gonna have to Option A, Option B, Option C. There's gonna be one plan you can buy, and in January 2014 you are required by law to have it or they "withhold your refund. ...

"In most states, exchanges will be an 800 number, a Web site and a government office, like the DMV." But there's a little light at the end of the tunnel for some of you. "People with household incomes up to $92,200 will be eligible for a subsidy." Yes, your neighbors will pay part of your health insurance if you make $92,200 or less! (interruption) Of course it's welfare!

"Let me give you statistic. If you make $60,000 a year, you're in the top 10% of wage earners in this country. If you're at $60,000 or up, you're in the top 10%. Remember that the next time you hear 'em talk about the rich. So the $92,200 salary, how many of you aren't earning that but would like to? That's a lot of money, and yet it qualifies for a subsidy. If you make less than that, your neighbors will make up whatever you can't pay.

"If you’re a senior or a baby boomer," which means if you're aged or intending on becoming aged, "expect less care than in the past. Cuts to future Medicare funding pay for more than half the Obama health law." Obama cut $716 billion from Medicare. Romney and Ryan tried to explain this during the campaign: $716 billion has been cut from Medicare. Well, that's for the poor. That money's gone.

It's being used on younger, more productive, longer-living people.

Can you say "death panels"?

"Hospitals, for example, will have $247 billion less to care for same number of seniors than if the law had not passed. Hospitals will spread nurses thinner. California nurses already are striking over the increased workloads. When Medicare cuts led hospitals to reduce nursing care in the past, elderly patients had a lower chance of surviving their stay and death rates from heart attacks rose, according to a report last year by the National Bureau of Economic Research."

Well, they're taking treatment money away from the elderly and shifting it to the young. "For the first time in history, the federal government will control how doctors treat privately insured patients." For the first time in history. "Section 1311 of the law empowers the Secretary of Health and Human Services to standardize what doctors do." In this case, Kathleen Sebelius.

"Even if you have a private plan from Cigna or Aetna and you paid for it yourself, the federal government will have some say over your doctors’ decisions, with an eye toward reducing health-care consumption." The federal government wants fewer people going to the doctor or the hospital every day. (interruption) Now, Snerdley's yelling out, "How are they gonna blame the Republicans for this?" Oh, they'll find a way. They'll find a way.

I mean, they've been blaming Republicans for kicking the old people on Social Security out of their homes or cutting their Social Security for how many decades now? "If you sell your house..." Are you ready for this? Have you seen the stories about all these people asset dumping right now? People are selling their houses, selling their stocks, and you think, "Eh, that's just the rich. I don't have to worry."

Do you know why they're doing it? In part, here is why: "If you sell your house and make a profit, you’ll likely be paying a new 3.8% tax on the gain. The law includes about half a trillion dollars in tax hikes, including a new 3.8% tax on gains from selling any asset, including your home, small business, stocks or bonds, effective Jan. 1, 2013."

It's effective next January, not 2014. That's effective in two months. "That’s on top of capital-gains taxes and applies to any profit that pushes your income over $200,000." You pay an additional 3.8% over a capital gains tax that's already gonna go up as part of Taxmageddon from 15% to 20% and maybe to 25%. This is Realville now.

"Why didn't you tell us, Rush!"

We did.

Everything I've told you and more, we spent years telling people about.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: So, folks, the bottom line here is that this is as good as it gets on health care. This is it. Enjoy it. Your capital gains tax increase happens automatically on January 1. The rest of this stuff hits in January 2014. Up until then, it's as good as it gets. Now, the law is 2,572 pages, and there are many changes that nobody knows yet that will be imposed. You know why? Because the regulations haven't been written.

The law is open-ended.

New regulations can be written by new federal workers, and the regime "is adding federal workers at a rapid pace to churn out and enforce new rules." Have you seen the stories on the numbers of new regulations popping every week (not just in health care, but across the board) from this administration? "The government’s own projections say the cost of health-care administration -- bureaucrats telling doctors and patients what to do -- will soar from $29 billion when President Obama was first elected to $71 billion by 2020..."

Folks, let me give you a number to put that in perspective. From $30 billion to $71 billioni, we're talking a $40 billion increase in bureaucratic expenses to administer health care. "That’s enough money to buy private health plans for fully half of all Americans who are now uninsured because they can’t afford it."

This law has never been about health insurance. It has never been about health care. This law is trillions in expenses and deficit spending, and it's ostensibly to cover the uninsured and to lower the costs for those who are. This is one of the biggest deceits that's ever been spread. For $80 million to $100 million we can insure everybody who's uninsured, versus trillions for this.

This is not about health care. It's not about insuring the uninsured. It is about the total control of a free people under the guise of health care. Once you're in charge of people's health... I mean, everything people do affects their health and therefore you, as the government, have the power to regulate it, which is what's on tap starting January 2014.

You say, "Well, is there something that can be done?"

I think so, but I'm not in the House of Representatives.

END TRANSCRIPT


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: 2012; communism; democrats; economy; govtabuse; healthcare; jobs; layoffs; obama; obamacare; socialisthealthcare; tyranny; waronliberty
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1 posted on 11/13/2012 1:39:45 PM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

There is simply no way these insurance exchanges can be up and running in little more than a year. Come 2014 many Americans will lose insurance from employers, find they cannot afford a private plan and make too much to qualify for Medicaid. With no exchange available they will be without health care coverage and then be faced with a fine as a result.


2 posted on 11/13/2012 1:52:02 PM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Kaslin

OBAMA-CARE IS CHIMP CHANGE..

The THEFT of a presidential election is NOT CHUMP CHANGE...
Obama-care, Bengazi even, a Marine Generals whoredom, are diversions from THE BIG STORY..

The BLOCKBUSTER.. a legendary poker “TELL”.. A heinous scandal.. The Conspiracy of Conspiracy’s...
The outright theft of a presidential election, in your face right out in the open.. OVERT..

Sedition and treason on a monumental scale.. Outrageous in it’s scope..
This scandal portends it’s been going on for years maybe decades..
Makes Obama-care disputes look like petty whining.. infantile grousing..

ALL media including Fox News is spiking it burying it(more or less)..
NOBODY wants to face the implications of it.. their faces turned(noses plugged) from the stink of it..

November 6th was the day VOTING DIED in the United States..
ALL OTHER STORYS are entertainment, mere dalliances, comedy relief..

OPEN YOUR NOSE TAKE A WHIFF OF IT... if you’ve the courage..


3 posted on 11/13/2012 2:09:19 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe

My FRiend, the noramlcy bias prevents folsk from admitting the truth which you so clearly exposed. We The People were the sovereigns, until the crimnal machine treasonously usurped the vote. Now we need only bide our time to see what comes after the American Republic. Obama is a feckless useful idiot hand puppet for something far more heinous than his diddling at rule.


4 posted on 11/13/2012 2:15:12 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Kaslin
my best friend owns a company here on Maui that employs 100 people. He told me a few days ago his company's days are numbered. His book keeping dept told him that soon when Obamacare kicks in this next year he will have to pay an additional $2500 per employee to stay legal. Do the math, that is $250,000 more cost to him next year and he said he has not made a profit in the last two to three years as it is. This will put him under and there will be 100 more people on the unemployment list here on Maui. If this happens all over the US (and it is already started) our whole system will go under. No more America as we knew it. Since Hawaii voted over 70% for Obmama I'm sure a lot of his employees voted TO TGERMINATE THEIR OWN JOBS!!
5 posted on 11/13/2012 2:22:08 PM PST by fish hawk
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To: The Great RJ

Yep! I am in that boat already. I lost my job (and group health) in 2009. I now work two jobs (without benefits) to avoid having to take welfare. I don’t. I have a mild pre-existing condition, and have endured several rejections from insurance companies, and so you would think I would embrace Obamacare, but no, I see it as the Socialist/Democrat power grab that it is. But, I was able to find affordable catastrophic insurance, which does not cover much but does stand between me and financial ruin. Now, catastrophic insurance will now be outlawed under Obamacare. I cannot afford the insurance options the exchanges will offer (I have looked into this). And I make above $41,600, the level at which a single individual can qualify for government assistnce. And so, I will have to go without healthcare and be labeled a “freeloader” and fined. I will REFUSE to pay the fine. They could keep back the amount of the fine in my refund, but I have already started withholding LESS from my paycheck so that I will never be due a refund, and I will then subtract the penalty amount from the check that I write to the IRS. If they come after me, well, I will at least die a free man.


6 posted on 11/13/2012 2:26:49 PM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: The Great RJ

This is a POOR country and becoming more POOR every day we fall headlong into communism.

“Let me give you statistic. If you make $60,000 a year, you’re in the top 10% of wage earners in this country. If you’re at $60,000 or up, you’re in the top 10%.

This wage wouldn’t pay my insurance bills.

BTW, $60k is also the TAX FREE amount of benefits I hear many of the takers are getting. What does that tell you about 90% of the chumps who are working?


7 posted on 11/13/2012 2:38:25 PM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Kaslin
....as far as citizens are concerned, the exchange will be a federal office building somewhere with a phone number, and you'll call, and you'll find out what you have to do to be legal and have your insurance and how much it's gonna cost you and what the fine options are. Or you can go there and stand in line like you do at the DMV. I venture to say that over half the population has no idea what's in store for them. But there will be no recourse now....

....So January 1st, 2014, the employer mandate kicks in, and it requires bosses with 50 or more people full time, to provide the government-designed health plan or pay a fine. "The government plan is so expensive, it adds $1.79 per hour to the cost of a full-time employee"....

....To avoid the costly mandate, some employers will push workers into part-time status. Other employers will opt for the fine. Either way, workers lose their on-the-job coverage." You're either gonna be converted to part-time or you're not gonna be covered and your company will pay the fine because it's cheaper than insuring you. Even worse then that, they risk losing their jobs. Even the fine is 98 cents an hour to the cost of labor. So to insure every employee, a buck seventy nine an hour, to pay the fine, 98 cents an hour, and that's enough to make some employers cut back on their workforce....

....As many as a third of employers, according to research, are considering canceling coverage totally. This is the result of a survey done by McKinsey & Co., which is a management consultant group. They are hired by businesses to help run in a streamlined way, make corporate hires, executive hires, decisions, and so forth. Now, that doesn't mean that you'll be uninsured. You just won't have the choice. If your employer cancels coverage, you're out the window. When you file your taxes -- this is also part of Obamacare that is now Realville -- when you file your taxes, you're gonna have to show proof that you are enrolled in the one-size-fits-all plan approved by the federal government. It's mandatory starting January 1st, 2014....

....If you don't do what Obamacare mandates that you do January 1, 2014, if you don't have mandated insurance, they are going to withhold your tax refund. And there is a brand-new form that you have to fill out in addition to your 10-whatever just for this. If you have been going without insurance or if your employer drops coverage, your options will be enrolling in Medicaid if you're eligible or buying a government-approved health plan at your local state exchange. Again, go through this: "When you file your taxes, you will have to show proof that you are enrolled in the one-size-fits-all plan approved by the federal government. It’s mandatory, starting Jan. 1, 2014," about 13 or 14 months from now. If you don't, "the IRS will withhold your refund," so the government gets paid your fine....

...."In most states, exchanges will be an 800 number, a Web site and a government office, like the DMV." But there's a little light at the end of the tunnel for some of you. "People with household incomes up to $92,200 will be eligible for a subsidy." Yes, your neighbors will pay part of your health insurance if you make $92,200 or less! (interruption) Of course it's welfare!

"Let me give you statistic. If you make $60,000 a year, you're in the top 10% of wage earners in this country. If you're at $60,000 or up, you're in the top 10%. Remember that the next time you hear 'em talk about the rich. So the $92,200 salary, how many of you aren't earning that but would like to? That's a lot of money, and yet it qualifies for a subsidy. If you make less than that, your neighbors will make up whatever you can't pay.

"If you’re a senior or a baby boomer," which means if you're aged or intending on becoming aged, "expect less care than in the past. Cuts to future Medicare funding pay for more than half the Obama health law." Obama cut $716 billion from Medicare. Romney and Ryan tried to explain this during the campaign: $716 billion has been cut from Medicare. Well, that's for the poor. That money's gone....

....Even if you have a private plan from Cigna or Aetna and you paid for it yourself, the federal government will have some say over your doctors’ decisions, with an eye toward reducing health-care consumption." The federal government wants fewer people going to the doctor or the hospital every day....

...."If you sell your house and make a profit, you’ll likely be paying a new 3.8% tax on the gain. The law includes about half a trillion dollars in tax hikes, including a new 3.8% tax on gains from selling any asset, including your home, small business, stocks or bonds, effective Jan. 1, 2013." It's effective next January, not 2014. That's effective in two months. "That’s on top of capital-gains taxes and applies to any profit that pushes your income over $200,000." You pay an additional 3.8% over a capital gains tax that's already gonna go up as part of Taxmageddon from 15% to 20% and maybe to 25%. This is Realville now.

Ping for analysis (and planning) later.

8 posted on 11/13/2012 3:19:45 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: fish hawk
His book keeping dept told him that soon when Obamacare kicks in this next year he will have to pay an additional $2500 per employee to stay legal

Is that because your friend's company does not provide healthcare to its employees?

9 posted on 11/13/2012 3:24:01 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (Jab her with a harpoon.....)
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To: Kaslin

Bump


10 posted on 11/13/2012 3:28:55 PM PST by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: Kaslin

Well, we had to pass the bill to read the bill. So I guess the next step is to implement the bill before we know how to implement it.


11 posted on 11/13/2012 3:40:56 PM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: fish hawk; All
my best friend owns a company here on Maui that employs 100 people. He told me a few days ago his company's days are numbered. His book keeping dept told him that soon when Obamacare kicks in this next year he will have to pay an additional $2500 per employee to stay legal. Do the math, that is $250,000 more cost to him next year and he said he has not made a profit in the last two to three years as it is. This will put him under and there will be 100 more people on the unemployment list here on Maui. If this happens all over the US (and it is already started) our whole system will go under. No more America as we knew it. Since Hawaii voted over 70% for Obmama I'm sure a lot of his employees voted TO TGERMINATE THEIR OWN JOBS!!

I have been hearing from a CPA Gnome for the last 3 years how businesses are looking for solutions since they are having trouble being or no longer can be "going forward organizations". The potential solutions range from selling to competitors, selling to someone in a lower-cost state because there are no margins. Sadly, sometimes they close it down, and this is before Obamacare. Hold on to your asses, it is going to get much worse.

I need to start a CPA thread here on FR as to what Fr-er CPA / Tax Professionals are seeing, my guess is it isn't pretty....

12 posted on 11/13/2012 3:43:40 PM PST by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: fish hawk

Your friend has other options..

1 reduce the work force to less than 50 (I think this is still the case)

2 reduce the existing work force to part time.


13 posted on 11/13/2012 4:13:31 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Alex Murphy
"law includes about half a trillion dollars in tax hikes, including a new 3.8% tax on gains from selling any asset, including your home"

This new tax would not apply to all home sales, or to all of the profits from such sales. Like the Obamacare law in general it is complicated and a CPA's dream. The only thing for certain is that you will most likely want to hire a CPA in any year that you sell property.

In any case, it hasn't always been the case that the profits from selling a home were non-taxable. This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Personally I would be OK with getting rid of tax exemptions like this in favor of a simpler code. Tax exemptions like this only exist because of lobbying from realtors and extensions of benefits from those who need it (e.g. people selling their home to go into retirement) to everyone in the country.

14 posted on 11/13/2012 4:19:31 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: taildragger
If a business is owned by a couple, can they split the business in two so that each half has fewer than 50 employees?

That might be extreme, but it might stave off the tax man for a little longer.

If the family has kids they might be able to split it into smaller parts yet and go for a few more years exempted from Obamacare!

15 posted on 11/13/2012 4:23:02 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Thank you for explaining the 3.8%. I’ve tried to do that several times on FR but it keeps resurfacing. For those interested, here is a detailed explanation from the Natl Assoc of Realtors:

http://www.realtor.org/small_business_health_coverage.nsf/docfiles/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf/$FILE/government_affairs_invest_inc_tax_broch.pdf


16 posted on 11/13/2012 4:24:05 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: Alex Murphy

It’s astonishing how misguided and Draconian this law is, yet those fools in Washington blithely passed it.
It’s going to run roughshod through the economy like Godzilla through Tokyo and they’ll probably feign surprise or faux outrage while they blame “big business” or “wall street” for their own evil.


17 posted on 11/13/2012 4:27:39 PM PST by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: fish hawk
He needs to have a heart to heart with his employees and lay it all out.

It seems to me that there are three options to investigate before letting the presumed additional cost shut him down.

- Shift enough employees to part time to get under fifty full time employees. Ask for volunteers, some people will do so. If not enough people volunteer, then try to be as fair as possible, but do it.

- Look to see if putting certain employees on a 1099 contractual basis can be made to work. They're picky about it, don't provide office space, don't do anything for them that could be construed as their being de facto employees, you'll get nailed.

- Look into the cost of shifting employees onto another payroll. This can be an employment agency, a temp agency or another corporate entity with whom you contract for the labor. There are potential minefields here, too so do your due diligence or you'll find yourself in a mess.

Some combination of the above might be workable, too. I feel for him, it's an amazingly stupid situation not of his making, the proverbial rock and a hard place. I can see why a number of company owners would just say the heck with it. Too little reward, too many potential pitfalls.

-

18 posted on 11/13/2012 4:30:32 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: The Great RJ

This will cause people to change their withholding to where very is deducted by the Feds,and then they will not file their taxes at the end of the year. Within a year or two, the cost of conformance will be so high, that it will have to be repealed.


19 posted on 11/13/2012 4:45:48 PM PST by Delta Dawn (The whole truth.)
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To: Brett66
It’s astonishing how misguided and Draconian this law is, yet those fools in Washington blithely passed it. It’s going to run roughshod through the economy like Godzilla through Tokyo....

That's exactly why they passed it. It's a blatant power grab by anyone and everyone inside the beltway. It doesn't matter if you understand it or not - you WILL break some measure of it. It's so convoluted and so draconian, there's no way to avoid prosecution except for bribery or sexual favors (which makes you guilty of different crimes that they may choose to prosecute you for).

20 posted on 11/13/2012 4:50:31 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("If you are not firm in faith, you will not be firm at all" - Isaiah 7:9)
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To: RegulatorCountry

I’m not Atlas, but I’m ready to shrug.

I’ve had enough. F’em ... F’em all.


21 posted on 11/13/2012 5:00:26 PM PST by ThE_RiPpEr.
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To: Kaslin

If the moose-limbs get a pass then everyone else should get one too.

equal protection. (reah, right...)


22 posted on 11/13/2012 5:22:28 PM PST by bitt (The buck rolls downhill.)
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To: Kaslin

Obama is going to buy healthcare for his young brown voters and keep them alive while he lets the old white conservatives die off without medical care. Demographics my butt, we are screwed.


23 posted on 11/13/2012 5:31:28 PM PST by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: Kaslin

So, a person buys insurance on April 14th. He has proof he bought it. He cancels the day he gets his refund.

It’s really scary that people who are so stupid can vote. I guess their next protest will be against everyone who eats at Papa John’s Pizza. They will protest people not willing to pay the higher prices. That’s how little they understand simple math.

Finally, if people are out of work, and there will be more and more, and don’t have insurance, how does the government collect the fine?


24 posted on 11/13/2012 5:37:16 PM PST by Terry Mross (I haven't watched the news since the election. Someone ping me if anything big happens.)
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To: Brett66

Every democrat voted for this. Are they that stupid? Or are they afraid of “something”?


25 posted on 11/13/2012 5:46:08 PM PST by Terry Mross (I haven't watched the news since the election. Someone ping me if anything big happens.)
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To: Delta Dawn
the cost of conformance will be so high, that it will have to be repealed.

Doesn't the bill include 15,000 new eager beaver IRS agents for enforcement? (aka attorney guaranteed employment plan)

26 posted on 11/13/2012 5:46:28 PM PST by nascarnation (Baraq's bankruptcy: 2016)
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To: nascarnation
Doesn't the bill include 15,000 new eager beaver IRS agents for enforcement?

It was 14,000 new IRS agents.

It was a separate bill.

Indeed, all told, about two dozen separate bills contained some authorization and appropriation integral to Obamacare.

There is a lot more than 2700 pages to Obamacare. And a lot more than one bill.

And that's intentional.

27 posted on 11/13/2012 5:55:32 PM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: Terry Mross

Following one another right into the drink.


28 posted on 11/13/2012 5:57:01 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (How long before all this "fairness" kills everybody, even the poor it was supposed to help???)
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To: Kaslin

Michael Savage has identified several loop holes.
1. One option is to become Amish, Mennonite, Christian Scientist or Muslim - get membership in a religious group that doesn’t believe in medical insurance, and you have an out.
2. Be too poor to pay the fine - they cannot penalize you if you qualify for programs for the very poor. Then don’t buy the insurance, even if offered a subsidy.
3. Join a Christian medical bill sharing ministry, which is considered insurance in the US though Tennessee recently ruled it is not. Medishare is one.


29 posted on 11/13/2012 6:29:52 PM PST by tbw2
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To: tbw2

Bookmark


30 posted on 11/13/2012 7:31:19 PM PST by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; DKNY; ...

God help us all...


31 posted on 11/13/2012 11:14:50 PM PST by nutmeg
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; DKNY; ...

God help us all...


32 posted on 11/13/2012 11:15:20 PM PST by nutmeg
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To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; DKNY; ...

God help us all...


33 posted on 11/13/2012 11:16:19 PM PST by nutmeg
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To: Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson; John Robinson
There seems to be a problem now on FR where posts with multiple names pasted into the "To:" box are posted in duplicate and triplicate (see posts 31, 32 and 33 above).

I'm positive I only hit "Post" once (above).

I've also been on the receiving end of several of these multiple posts, as I'm on some ping lists.

Can this be fixed? Thanks...

34 posted on 11/13/2012 11:22:55 PM PST by nutmeg
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To: Kaslin
I wonder what clever euphemism they'll come up with for
"obamacare genocide," as was done in the same spirit as the
expression "affordable healthcare act."
35 posted on 11/14/2012 1:06:25 AM PST by clearcarbon
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To: The Great RJ
Come 2014 many Americans will lose insurance from employers, find they cannot afford a private plan and make too much to qualify for Medicaid. With no exchange available they will be without health care coverage and then be faced with a fine as a result.

You're missing the point... People who are frightened they might be forced to live in pain for years become easy to control. ObamaCare has nothing to do with health care - it has to do with revenge. If there had been ONE person in the United States who was forced to do without medical care (before ObamaCare) the New York Times and other suck-up members of the MSM - would have run stories about that person on the front page and on nightly news every night.

NO ONE was doing without medical care. That's going to change. People will suffer - people will do without - and the effing MSM won't care. Because their boys won... and they're looking for revenge too. But that's another story.

36 posted on 11/14/2012 5:25:28 AM PST by GOPJ (Petraeus confession: like something from a 'Soviet purge trial'....)
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To: nutmeg
IF YOU HAVE A BAD REACTION TO A DRUG, DO NOT CALL THE FDA BAD DRUG HOT LINE! THERE ARE NO HUMANS TO ANSWER THE PHONE! ONLY A FEW DOZEN BUTTONS TO PUSH. AND IF YOU ARE A NON COMPUTER SENIOR YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK, CALL YOUR SENATOR INSTEAD! DEMAND HUMANS AT THE BAD DRUG HOT LINE, WE HAVE PLENTY OF $30-50K PAPER SHUFFLERS WHO COULD DO THIS AND REALLY EARN THEIR PAY CHECKS INSTEAD OF SHUFFLING PAPERS FROM ONE DESK TO ANOTHER.

FUSTRATION DELUXE! never got to speak to a HUMAN BEING to report bad FLU drug shot, and more senior women are having issues with it than men! CDC decided you as a senior needed a quadruple dose of the flu shot vs what a 40 year old would get, and you are NOT told in advance.

37 posted on 11/14/2012 5:28:20 AM PST by GailA (IF U will not keep your promises to the Military, U won't keep them to the public)
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To: taildragger

fire all the people who have obama stickers on their cars and hire only republicans, reduce to 49 employees puts you under the 50 number.


38 posted on 11/14/2012 5:32:26 AM PST by GailA (IF U will not keep your promises to the Military, U won't keep them to the public)
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To: hosepipe; nutmeg

November 6th was the day VOTING DIED in the United States..
ALL OTHER STORYS are entertainment, mere dalliances, comedy relief..

&&&
Exactly what I have been saying. I keep seeing commentary here about what we need to do for 2016, as though there really will be a true election then. Our republic, this Grand Experiment, is over.

And I am sure that Limbaugh, as politically astute as he is, realizes this. Why is he not covering it? I suppose he has chosen to just continue to ride his large wave of popularity until Obamugabe shuts down his operation along with those of other dissenting voices.

No, Mr. Franklin, we were not able to keep it, and you would be ashamed of us to see how easily it was taken from us.


39 posted on 11/14/2012 6:10:49 AM PST by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: nutmeg; justiceseeker93; Doogle; Foolsgold; unkus; gonzo; libertyhoundusnr; bevperl; ...

There is no one to rescue us from the coming Liberal’s Holocaust like America’s Greatest Generation liberated Auschwitz and the other camps from the Nazis. We are on our own in a world where many hate us thanks to Bam and the current Regime aided by the Liberal feces and gonadless Republicans in the US Congress.


40 posted on 11/14/2012 6:11:52 AM PST by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Kaslin

for later


41 posted on 11/14/2012 9:29:19 AM PST by Qwackertoo (Going into Politic Free Zone Momma Grizzly hibernation for a while after this week, maybe forever.)
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To: tbw2

I have heard that Unions are exempt. So lets start a Christian Union with a $1 per month dues to pay for one person to handle the enrollment / web page.

/sarc


42 posted on 11/14/2012 11:01:06 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: Kaslin

Yes. They wanted it to be chaos. They wanted to make things so bad and so complicated that people demand government run healthcare.


43 posted on 11/14/2012 11:02:33 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: hosepipe
The Conspiracy of Conspiracy’s...

Death to all misplaced apostrophes!!!

(it's conspiracies...)

44 posted on 11/14/2012 11:14:19 AM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Delta Dawn
This will cause people to change their withholding to where very is deducted by the Feds,and then they will not file their taxes at the end of the year. Within a year or two, the cost of conformance will be so high, that it will have to be repealed

That is not a bug, that was the feature point. They want an excuse for nationalization.

45 posted on 11/14/2012 11:19:58 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: ez

The old whitey AARP endorsed this crap, killin off their own members.


46 posted on 11/14/2012 11:21:02 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Bigg Red

bump!


47 posted on 11/14/2012 11:24:47 AM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Windflier

I get stupid when I get excited.. I’m not perfect..
But I am cute and deadly.. and not needy..


48 posted on 11/14/2012 11:41:11 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Bigg Red

[ And I am sure that Limbaugh, as politically astute as he is, realizes this. Why is he not covering it? ]

Answer; Because you can prove little of it if anything.. Voter fraud has been perfected by the democrats over many years.. They have a phalanx of people in charge that know how to protect it.. most of it.. Most of it being in democrat districts, not all but most..

Amazing really.. brilliant even.. the amount of people involved in it must be huge.. No doubt many accidents and suicides will develop to keep the lid on..

After all Obama controls.. the FBI, CIA, NSA, BATF, Secret Service, several military security services.. and THE UNIONS...... which includes the Police, Firefighters, Teachers and most all media and entertainment Unions..

AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE..


49 posted on 11/14/2012 12:02:03 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Kaslin
The Left is quivering with excitement that they are about to be able to kill off everybody older than 75, the sick and handicapped. Not to mention that it is very freeing for the sex addicts to be able to indulge themselves and force contraceptives and abortions on the women. That whole contraception/abortion thing is for the sex trade, not for “women's health.”
50 posted on 11/14/2012 1:57:31 PM PST by Missouri gal
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