Posted on 10/26/2011 9:56:48 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Like I said, (specific) tax cuts for everyone and no specific spending cuts. YAY
The Ghost of Compassionate Conservatism Returns from the grave.
I think you just proved my point. School should be out soon, and then you can go home and watch cartoons.
Drug dealers pay nothing under Perry’s plan. Same for Newt’s plan.
Prostitutes keep 100% of their money under Perry’s plan. Same for Newt’s plan
Millions illegal immigrants pay nothing under Perry;s plan. Ditto on Newt’s plan.
You should try actually reading the plan. It isn't that hard to do.
By cutting non-defense discretionary spending by $100 billion and restoring it to 2008 levels
Consolidating Department of Education funding for all elementary and secondary programs, reducing it by 50 percent, and returning the rest of the money to the states would save $25 billion in the first year.
Reducing the portfolio of investments by government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would save $26.5 billion over ten years.
And repealing the Davis-Bacon Act and paying market-based wages would save $11.4 billion.
Freeze Federal Civilian Hiring and Salaries Until the Budget is Balanced
Two points:
1) Haha. I was really just using the same logic I see applied to Cain’s plan all the time. Specifically, few people want to argue the merits of the plan as written but instead want to talk about some random hypothetical like 12-12-12.
2) You have argued against the merits of a consumption tax. Kudos. I, however, disagree. I believe that a consumption tax is the only ETHICAL tax. Consider...
Property taxes - Truly unethical. It is basically reaffirming the notion that private citizens don’t really own anything. They are only allowed to keep possession of the property so long as they pay the tax. It’s modern day serfdom.
Income taxes - Unethical from the standpoint that the government assumes a part of your earnings. For a portion of each year, you are a slave to the government. So long as you earn wealth, the government gets a share.
Inheritance taxes - need I say more?
Corporate taxes - Unethical because it’s really just obfuscating a consumption tax. That is to say: corporations don’t really pay taxes - it’s an expense they pass on to their consumers when the consumer consumes their goods or services. It’s a way to HIDE taxes from the person who really ends up paying them.
Consumption taxes - The most ethical taxation system. Taxing commerce is open and honest. Individuals have more control over how they are taxed. An individual can attempt to establish a self-sufficient, off-grid lifestyle and TRULY be free (if there are no property taxes). Consumption is automatically a flat tax because consumption will change at various income levels. It does not kill investment. It allows earners to keep what they earn, give freely to others, and pass the fruits of their labor on to whoever they wish. Wealth becomes static until spent/utilized and does not bleed away just because the greedy government wants their cut. A man can be productive, yet control his level of taxation, savings, and charity.
So - I disagree. Cain’s plan eventually seeks to replace it all with the Fair Tax - a pure consumption tax system. As a pragmatist, he realizes that won’t happen in one fell swoop, so he takes a step in the right direction in order to prove the concept.
Affirmation and kind words are always appreciated.
I understand what you are saying. And yet, I understand that all I can do is my part to be someone whose words and manner are worth emulating. “Lead by example”, I suppose, but keep in mind that I may be the only one who considers what I have to say to be worthy of listening to and acting on.
The good Lord knows the uncountable sins and errors which He has chosen to forgive me of, and I am truly grateful!!! I want Him to consider that a good decision on His part, and be part of His way do doing things in the future.
I have to disagree with that one. I actually receive something in return for my property taxes. Schools, fire, police, roads. It is local and if you choose to live in an area with very little services you can have lower taxes.
One of the problems I have with adding a sales tax while keeping the income tax is it diminishes the visibility of the yearly impact of the federal government. At least filing that tax return people see a large chunk being taken of their earned dollars. Take a large portion of that away and I believe you would have less push back against additional government spending.
“One of the problems I have with adding a sales tax while keeping the income tax is it diminishes the visibility of the yearly impact of the federal government. At least filing that tax return people see a large chunk being taken of their earned dollars. Take a large portion of that away and I believe you would have less push back against additional government spending.”
An interesting perspective, BUT...
What was the exact income tax rate you paid last year? The year before that? How about in 2002?
The vast majority of people CANNOT answer this question.
So, the flip side to your argument is that a sales tax is actually extremely visible - every time you buy something, you see it. So if the government ever tried to increase it, people would know *exactly* what was about to happen and be able to fight it. With income taxes, they hide it in tax tables, deductions, and exemptions. People often have no idea how a specific tax bill actually affected their overall taxes without really crunching the numbers.
“I have to disagree with that one. I actually receive something in return for my property taxes. Schools, fire, police, roads. It is local and if you choose to live in an area with very little services you can have lower taxes.”
You can get those government services from other revenue generating methods - such as a consumption tax - that are more ethical. But, OK, I understand that many municipalities are not going to be able to provide those services under a consumption tax. Fine. Fees are more ethical than property taxes.
Any tax that says “just because I own property, I must pay the government or risk a tax lien and eventual government ownership of said property” is unethical, imo.
From my perspective, I've seen greater push back against taking a portion of the earnings.
My 2¢, your mileage may vary.
Fees are more ethical than property taxes.
A rose (or manure) by any other name, would smell just as sweet.
If Herman Cain does go down in the polls, where will his support go? Back to Bachman or Perry, or to Newt? Could Santorum be the recipient? I highly doubt his support would go to Romney.
Thank you both for being a voice of reason on this thread. I’ve appreciated what you both have posted. It’s much more informative to read mature posts than it is to read posts whose only motive appears to be character assassination of Governor Perry and his wife.
Another factor is that many (myself included) look on him as "Bush III". That may not be true, but it "is" a real perception.
It WOULDN’T get implemented. These are essentially position papers, the way the candidate would like to do things if it were entirely up to him. But it is NOT entirely up to him, and I believe that there are two chances of getting a flat tax through at this time: slim and none.
From this Texan's perspective, it is far from true.
I have seen plenty of Texans complain about Perry, myself at times included.
But I have not seen the opinion from the people here that he is another Bush.
What actions of his do you see the same as Bush?
My grammar is not the issue, “facts” are the issue. Typical liberal response trying to change the subject, and divert attention. You would work well in the Obama admin.
You are exactly right. I have been preparing our taxes for 40 years without a single IRS audit, so I must be good at it, yet I can’t tell you what percentage tax I paid in ANY year.
But I and my wife can tell you exactly what the sales tax is on everything we buy. As a matter of fact it is printed on every sales receipt from every store. Sales tax is so much more visible. And therefore much harder to increase.
How many people know our social security tax rates have been adjusted (upwards of course) 23 times?
Thank you. Push information like this if you want your candidate to win. I like ANY plan that makes the leeches of this country pay their fair share and takes the burn off the middle class that foots virtually all of the bills while the leeches suck our blood without end.
As long as comparisons with Cain are based in fact and are openly and fairly done, I have no problem in reconsidering Perry despite his drastic faux pas re: tuition.
LOL...touchy, touchy! Your facts are a pipe dream. 9-9-9 doesn;t exist anymore...now it’s 9-0-9 for the ‘deserving poor’ and 9-9-9 for the rest until it’s 19-19-19. This is not a real tax plan. It’s a fad.
I have not made up my mind yet (undoubtedly, the future and the votes each candidate receives will have something to do with it!).
However, I like your openness to reason, with your caveat that the argument being presented is grounded in facts and principle. Wish there were more of that mind-set around!!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.