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Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment
Nationa Review Online ^ | November 10, 2010 | Todd Zywicki

Posted on 11/10/2010 7:26:53 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Joe Miller, Alaska’s Republican nominee for the United States Senate, recently expressed support for an idea that is rapidly gaining steam in Tea Party circles: the repeal of the Seventeenth Amendment. Miller subsequently backtracked from his statement, but he shouldn’t have: Repealing the Seventeenth Amendment would go a long way toward restoring federalism and frustrating special-interest influence over Washington.

Ratified in 1913, the Seventeenth Amendment replaced the election of U.S. senators by state legislators with the current system of direct election by the people. By securing the Seventeenth Amendment’s ratification, progressives dealt a blow to the Framers’ vision of the Constitution from which we have yet to recover.

The Constitution did not create a direct democracy; it established a constitutional republic. Its goal was to preserve liberty, not to maximize popular sovereignty. To this end, the Framers provided that the power of various political actors would derive from different sources. While House members were to be elected directly by the people, the president would be elected by the Electoral College. The people would have no direct influence on the selection of judges, who would be nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate to serve for life or “during good behavior.” And senators would be elected by state legislatures.

Empowering state legislatures to elect senators was considered both good politics and good constitutional design. At the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, the proposal was ratified with minimal discussion and recognized as the approach “most congenial” to public opinion. Direct election was proposed by Pennsylvania’s James Wilson but defeated ten to one in a straw poll. More important than public opinion, however, was that limitations on direct popular sovereignty are an important aspect of a constitutional republic’s superiority to a direct democracy. As Madison observes in Federalist 51, “A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”

Election of senators by state legislatures was a cornerstone of two of the most important “auxiliary precautions”: federalism and the separation of powers. Absent some direct grant of federal influence to state governments, the latter would be in peril of being “swallowed up,” to use George Mason’s phrase. Even arch-centralizer Hamilton recognized that this institutional protection was necessary to safeguard state autonomy. In addition, the Senate was seen as a means of linking the state governments together with the federal one. Senators’ constituents would be state legislators rather than the people, and through their senators the states could influence federal legislation or even propose constitutional amendments under Article V of the Constitution.

The Seventeenth Amendment ended all that, bringing about the master-servant relationship between the federal and state governments that the original constitutional design sought to prevent. Before the Seventeenth Amendment, the now-widespread Washington practice of commandeering the states for federal ends — through such actions as “unfunded mandates,” laws requiring states to implement voter-registration policies that enable fraud (such as the “Motor Voter” law signed by Bill Clinton), and the provisions of Obamacare that override state policy decisions — would have been unthinkable. Instead, senators today act all but identically to House members, treating federalism as a matter of political expediency rather than constitutional principle.

There is no indication that the supporters of the Seventeenth Amendment understood that they were destroying federalism. But they failed to recognize a fundamental principle of constitutional design: that in order for constraints to bind, it is necessary for politicians to have personal incentives to respect them. “Ambition,” Madison insisted in Federalist 51, “must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place.”

Under the original arrangement, senators had strong incentives to protect federalism. They recognized that their reelection depended on pleasing state legislators who preferred that power be kept close to home. Whereas House members were considered representatives of the people, senators were considered ambassadors of their state governments to the federal government and, like national ambassadors to foreign countries, were subject to instruction by the parties they represented (although not to recall if they refused to follow instructions). And they tended to act accordingly, ceding to the national government only the power necessary to perform its enumerated functions, such as fighting wars and building interstate infrastructure. Moreover, when the federal government expanded to address a crisis (such as war), it quickly retreated to its intended modest level after the crisis had passed. Today, as historian Robert Higgs has observed, federal expansion creates a “ratchet effect.”

Just as important as its role in securing federalism, the Senate as originally conceived was essential to the system of separation of powers. Bicameralism — the division of the legislature into two houses elected by different constituencies — was designed to frustrate special-interest factions. Madison noted in Federalist 62 that basing the House and Senate on different constituent foundations would provide an “additional impediment . . . against improper acts of legislation” by requiring the concurrence of a majority of the people with a majority of the state governments before a law could enacted. By resting both houses of Congress on the same constituency base — the people — the Seventeenth Amendment substantially watered down bicameralism as a check on interest-group rent-seeking, laying the foundation for the modern special-interest state.

Finally, the Framers hoped that indirect election of senators would elevate the quality of the Senate, making it a sort of American version of the House of Lords, by bringing to public service men of supreme accomplishment in business, law, and military affairs. There is some evidence that the indirectly elected Senate was more accessible to non-career politicians than today’s version is. And research by law professor Vikram Amar has found that during the 19th century, accomplished senators such as Webster and Calhoun frequently rotated out of the Senate and into the executive branch or the private sector, with an understanding among state legislators — and, notably, the senator selected to fill the seat — that they could return to service if they wished to do so or were needed. Foes of the Seventeenth Amendment argued at the time that its enactment would spawn a deterioration in the body’s quality. Whether the modern titans of the Senate such as Trent Lott, Bill Frist, Harry Reid, and the late Ted Kennedy are superior to Webster, Clay, and Calhoun is to some extent a matter of taste. But it is likely that reinstating the original mode of selection would change the type of individuals selected — and it is not implausible to think that the change would be positive.

Establishment media and liberal politicians have mocked tea partiers’ calls for repeal of the Seventeenth Amendment as anti-democratic. To be sure, indirect election would be less democratic than direct election, but this is beside the point. Notably, those who are most shocked by the proposal to repeal the Seventeenth Amendment are also the most vociferous in denouncing democratic election of judges. The Framers understood what today’s self-interested sloganeers of democracy do not: What matters is not whether a given method of selecting governmental officials is more or less democratic, but whether it will safeguard the constitutional functions bestowed upon each branch and conduce to their competent execution. Indeed, certain of the Senate’s duties — such as its role as a type of jury for impeachment proceedings — make sense only if it is somewhat insulated from the public’s passions of the moment, as was well demonstrated by the farcical Senate trial of Bill Clinton.

Critics of repeal have also contended that election of senators by state legislatures was, and would be today, unusually prone to corruption and bribery. But research by historian C. H. Hoebeke found that of the 1,180 Senate elections between 1789 and 1909, in only 15 cases was fraud credibly alleged, and in only seven was it actually found — approximately one-half of 1 percent. Moreover, it is absurd to think that even this modest degree of corruption would be tolerated in the modern media age, any more than politicians can today sell judgeships or other appointed offices, as they frequently did in the past. And even in the progressive era it was not believed that direct election of senators would prevent corruption. Among the Seventeenth Amendment’s staunchest supporters were urban political machines (hardly advocates of clean government), which understood that direct election would boost their control of the Senate as they drove and bribed their followers to the polls.

Repealing the Seventeenth Amendment would not be a panacea for what ails the American political and constitutional system. As during the era before the Seventeenth Amendment, many states would probably adopt either de facto direct election of senators, in which legislatures essentially agree to ratify the popular vote, or attenuated forms of it, such as primaries or conventions to select party nominees from whom the legislatures choose. And much work would remain to be done to restore the public’s understanding of the difference between a direct democracy and a democratic constitutional republic. But repeal would be a step in the direction of restraining an imperialistic central government and frustrating special-interest influence. Whether or not it is good politics, it remains sound constitutional design.

—Mr. Zywicki is a George Mason University Foundation professor of law and a senior scholar of the Mercatus Center. He has written several law-review articles examining the history and impact of the Seventeenth Amendment. This article first appeared in the November 15, 2010, issue of National Review.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alaska
KEYWORDS: 10thamendment; 17thamendment; 1913; appointments; bicameralism; corruption; critics; elections; electoralcollege; federalism; joemiller; legislatures; media; president; ratcheteffect; senate; senators; specialinterests; states; teaparty
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1 posted on 11/10/2010 7:26:54 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

We probably should repeal the 17th


2 posted on 11/10/2010 7:31:04 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

It never passed. It is a total fraud. We just have no judges with courage.


3 posted on 11/10/2010 7:32:25 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Goreknowshowtocheat

well, then, well need to do what is right and repeal it.

How about automatic citizenship while we are at it?


4 posted on 11/10/2010 7:33:57 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks; amom; DLfromthedesert; Alamo-Girl; 2Jedismom; PhiKapMom; Kathy in Alaska; ...

Bumping this important essay to the top!

Pinging some of my FRiends to this read on the 17th amendment!


5 posted on 11/10/2010 7:34:46 AM PST by TEXOKIE (Anarchy IS the strategy of the forces of darkness!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Much more to chew on and read than I have time for — but, as a Californian, I would hate to have my Senators dependent on our out-of-control Spendathon lefty legislators in Sacramento. They are the worst. They would probably put Marxists from San Fran in.


6 posted on 11/10/2010 7:35:24 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

“The Constitution did not create a direct democracy; it established a constitutional republic.” This is one thing you don’t hear politicians talk about any longer. Especially our President. In fact, I have never heard him mention us being a Republic. Bein a Republic gives the people of the country the power to run their own lives. A true Democracy, and only a Democracy gives the power to the government.


7 posted on 11/10/2010 7:35:24 AM PST by RC2
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To: RC2

‘A Democracy gives the power to the government ‘ — can you elaborate, please.


8 posted on 11/10/2010 7:36:40 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Things like federal highway funds that are collected by the states and sent to DC to be redistributed to the states are just stupid and should be abolished. Let the states decide what to do with their own revenue. Let the states fund and decide how to run schools/vouchers.

The way it should be.


9 posted on 11/10/2010 7:36:53 AM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: bboop

Not to worry, we already have two of the worst Senators possible. But, in 60 to 70 percent of the states we would get people that would not like to part with their authority to the Feds.


10 posted on 11/10/2010 7:37:57 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Every time I think of repealing the 17th, the Blagojevich’s Illinois senate auction comes to mind .


11 posted on 11/10/2010 7:38:02 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Dems' response to 11/2: Do not go gentle into that new day,Rage,rage against the coming of the dawn!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
“This F-ing plum falls in my F-ing lap, and I'm supposed to F-ing give it away? No F-ing way!” Blagovitch on his power to appoint a vacant Senate seat.

Anybody think it will be much different than this? Fat cat special interest in bed with lobbyist appointees are going to be better than a choice by the people? They will certainly be more beholden to their State and local interests, but ‘bringing home the bacon’ with ‘local pork’ has never really been the problem now, has it?

12 posted on 11/10/2010 7:38:29 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

We’d do pretty well to repeal everything enacted in the annus horribilis of 1913.

In fact the 17th Amendment is fourth on my list of abominations of annus horribilis. The first is the Amendment XVI the legalized an income tax. The second is XVIII, prohibition, which has already been repealed. The third is the Federal Reserve Act.

Pretty much every expansion of government since then has built upon the federal government’s authority to tax income and print money.


13 posted on 11/10/2010 7:38:30 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: KarlInOhio

GMTA. LOL!


14 posted on 11/10/2010 7:39:18 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Yep. The 17th should go.


15 posted on 11/10/2010 7:39:19 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: bboop

As opposed to the douchebag idiots you have now?


16 posted on 11/10/2010 7:40:25 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The problem is you will never be able to explain this to the american public. Never. They are too dumb-downed now.


17 posted on 11/10/2010 7:41:06 AM PST by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

As a theoretical matter, I agree, but I guess I’d rank this about 48th on a list of the top 50 priorities the nation has right now. Frankly, what we need is gridlock. and the best way to get that is what just happened - focusing on Representatives that have to show their faces every 2 years, and holding their feet to the fire.

Maybe if we’re thinking of amending the Constitution we should consider a limitation to Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 - aka “the Commerce Clause”, that has been perverted into permitting all kinds of governmental interference in private affairs.


18 posted on 11/10/2010 7:42:50 AM PST by bigbob
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

When they went to direct election of Senate
they should have gone to direct election of all
federal judges, including the SCotUS.


19 posted on 11/10/2010 7:46:44 AM PST by updatedscreenname
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To: bboop
They would probably put Marxists from San Fran in.

Boxer and Feinstein are what? I would hope that the droll humor shown in your comment went over me ed.

20 posted on 11/10/2010 7:46:50 AM PST by runninglips (Don't support the Republican party, work to "fundamentally change" it...conservative would be nice)
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To: bboop

Compare our country with others that are strictly Democratic countries. Look at what the power structure is in their countries. In the US, we have the right to remove our government and replace it (just an example). Look at England, France, Germany, Italy. I believe we are about the only true Republic.


21 posted on 11/10/2010 7:47:08 AM PST by RC2
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To: allmendream

They are not talking about a governor appointing a Senator, but the entire legislature. Surely a few hundred people can be trusted to put thwart the control of one man. It also would guard against the apathy of voters in local elections. Their votes would mean so much more.


22 posted on 11/10/2010 7:49:28 AM PST by runninglips (Don't support the Republican party, work to "fundamentally change" it...conservative would be nice)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Lots of good arguments for repeal, but my concern is that it would only be used by Democrats to override “advisory” public votes won by Republicans.


23 posted on 11/10/2010 7:54:08 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: TEXOKIE

Thanks for the ping, dear TEXOKIE!


24 posted on 11/10/2010 7:55:20 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

There are several amendments that should and need to be repealed.


25 posted on 11/10/2010 7:57:53 AM PST by stockpirate ("......When the government fears the people you have liberty." Thomas Jefferson)
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To: runninglips
So it would be several corrupt bastards making a consensus/compromise decision for a Dole like moderate (at best) in most instances.

Voter apathy in moderation is a fine thing in our Republic. Only the actually motivated (and hopefully informed and motivated) bother going to the polls. Their votes would mean less if the 17th were repealed, as their vote would only indirectly appoint a Senator, they would vote for a State Legislator who would (in back room deals) vote for a Senator.

26 posted on 11/10/2010 8:00:27 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Sounds like a pretty good idea.


27 posted on 11/10/2010 8:02:08 AM PST by Repeal The 17th
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To: bboop
A Democracy, in its purest form, has no Constitutional framework to ensure equality under the law, property rights, privacy, freedom of conscience, etc, etc.

In a Democracy all things are subject to popular vote. Popular vote determines the direction of the government and the government has absolute power to enact “the will of the people”.

“Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch”

28 posted on 11/10/2010 8:03:42 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Skepolitic

I thought Prohibition was ratified later than that.


29 posted on 11/10/2010 8:06:35 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Muslims are not the problem, the rest of the world is! /s)
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To: yldstrk
Repealing the 17th is a good start.

We could not go far wrong if we repealed every amendment added since the BoR was ratified.

30 posted on 11/10/2010 8:21:28 AM PST by jboot (Let Christ be true and every man a liar.)
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To: yldstrk

We probably should repeal all amendments passed between 1900 and 1920. Each one of them was a progressive trap that has slowly destroyed our representative republic (excluding the 18th, but that has already been repealed).


31 posted on 11/10/2010 8:21:49 AM PST by kosciusko51
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To: yldstrk

Probably? I’d say most definitely! It’s key to restoring the system to some degree of sanity. More importantly it would greatly augment the degree of “local” control, (throught the state legislatures) over the monster the Fed Gov’t has become and of equal importance, it would return meaningful power, (and accountablility) to the political parties thus helping to arrest Senator’s inclinations to move against their Party’s principle. The 17th amendment was really all about expanding “democracy” (little “d”) to place more power in the hands of the people which was a self serving move to allow parties to buy off special interest groups to further their agenda. Today that principle has come to mean, for example, the fostering of the open borders policy by the Dems because they believe it increases their voter base.

“Under the original arrangement, senators had strong incentives to protect federalism. They recognized that their reelection depended on pleasing state legislators who preferred that power be kept close to home. Whereas House members were considered representatives of the people, senators were considered ambassadors of their state governments to the federal government and, like national ambassadors to foreign countries, were subject to instruction by the parties they represented (although not to recall if they refused to follow instructions). And they tended to act accordingly, ceding to the national government only the power necessary to perform its enumerated functions, such as fighting wars and building interstate infrastructure. Moreover, when the federal government expanded to address a crisis (such as war), it quickly retreated to its intended modest level after the crisis had passed. Today, as historian Robert Higgs has observed, federal expansion creates a “ratchet effect.”

Pretty much says it all.


32 posted on 11/10/2010 8:25:34 AM PST by Rich21IE
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To: All
This would force people to actually elect good state reps.

Right now most people have no idea who represents them at a local level.

33 posted on 11/10/2010 8:27:20 AM PST by Kakaze (Exterminate Islamofacism and apologize for nothing....except not doing it sooner!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The 17th absolutely needs to go, but it will be a tough sell given the lib media’s railing against anyone who proposes such a thing. State’s rights have been trampled and this is a step towards undoing some of that damage. The House and Senate at this time too closely mirror one another.

You’d still have corruption but that’s easier to control and can be more quickly dealt with at the state level. There would be some issues at the state level to be dealt with but the states would be better served with the 17th gone.


34 posted on 11/10/2010 8:30:05 AM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: runninglips

Right, our Senators are the worst. But to have to depend on the Legislature to boot them out, that seems to me to be even worse. With the gerrymandering of districts ensuring that the libs live in Sacto forevermore, it just seems like it would double the difficulty.

In my dreams, huh?


35 posted on 11/10/2010 8:34:34 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: allmendream
Anybody think it will be much different than this? Fat cat special interest in bed with lobbyist appointees are going to be better than a choice by the people?

If you read about the history of the 17th, this is exactly what you will find. Direct election of Senators was intended to minimize special interest influence. What the 17th did not anticipate is that special interest pressure would be applied through the party caucus.

36 posted on 11/10/2010 8:35:23 AM PST by IamConservative (Our collective common sense; the only thing a 1.5GPF toilet ever flushed on the first pull.)
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To: runninglips

Quit picking on California. Look at what we have in Virginia.
Seems the senate only represents the big liberal cities.


37 posted on 11/10/2010 8:36:11 AM PST by satan (Plumbing new depths of worthlessness on a daily basis.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Two-edged sword. For some states, the pre-17th method would be just fine. But for other states (including here in Arkansas), we would have two Democrat Senators instead of our split pair (thank you voters for booting Blanche!).


38 posted on 11/10/2010 8:39:50 AM PST by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: Kakaze

I think you’re right, and the reason that has happened is because people no longer think any real authority rests at the state and local level. All the focus now is on Washington because the state’s have surrendered that control.

For most people right now the local and state races are an afterthought and that’s just the opposite of the way it should be.


39 posted on 11/10/2010 8:47:47 AM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Excellent article.


40 posted on 11/10/2010 8:49:29 AM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

First things first... let’s start by dumping the 14th amendment.


41 posted on 11/10/2010 8:50:49 AM PST by Elwood P. Doud (America, you voted for a negro socialist with an Islamic name - so why are you surprised?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Not going to happen... what we can do as Americans is to make certain that we inform our neighbors and friends when it is time to vote out a disgusting criminal power monger. We are not going to get term limits... we will never get the 17th repealed... even though I wish that we could... but 2010 has shown that we can throw the corrupt bastards out and we can stay engaged and do the hard work that it will take to salvage whatever soros and obama leave us with.

LLS

42 posted on 11/10/2010 8:54:57 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: IamConservative
Yes, but as with any direct election, the influence of special interests can be countered by the vote of the people.

Not that it ended well (presumably in the first case), but does ANYONE think we would get a candidates like Miller in Alaska, or candidates OTHER than those like Castle from Delaware, if it were the State Legislatures selecting the candidates and voting on them?

A “moderate” party hack like Murkowski or Castle would be the order of the day if they were selected by State Legislatures.

43 posted on 11/10/2010 9:00:04 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Election of Senators by State Legislatures is an important check and balance of the Constitution. It divides the powerful Federal Congress into two different and competing constituencies. It is also republican in nature as it empowers elected State Representatives to chose their representative in the Federal government, a "Senator". The states currently do not have a representative in the Federal government. Our Federal government is effectively now made up of two House of Representatives', with NO Senate! What a huge loss. It was only after this important check to Federal usurpation was neutralized, with the direct election of Senators, that the United States began the widespread adoption of socialism. It is not coincidental.

Removing some legislative power from the people directly was and is wise. When Senators are elected by State Legislatures, they are accountable to the State Legislature that selected them. It is a completely different political dynamic. Whereas an individual may be interested in policies directly affecting them, the State Legislature has a broader perspective and is more likely interested in what affects the state as a whole. Both interests and perspectives are critical; losing either one is tragic. State Legislatures are more likely to be interested in checking federal power to jealously preserve their state's sovereignty. This is a great example of the founder's genius in using human nature to check human nature.
44 posted on 11/10/2010 9:06:07 AM PST by Kegger
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To: allmendream

The people are represented in the House. With the Senate also elected by popular vote, we have 2 chambers focused on vote grabbing through entitlements.

With a Senate beholden to a State legislator, the Senate would be beholden to the state. Since the state governments also want power, it becomes a balance between state and federal.


45 posted on 11/10/2010 9:27:00 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan
Vote “grabbing” through appeal to the electorate (which includes plenty of “bringing home the bacon/pork” to their districts) is FAR FAR better than Vote “grabbing” of the vote of State Legislators only via appeal to the interests of State politicians.

The problem of the imbalance of power between the State and Federal government is mostly through an expansive reading of the interstate commerce clause.

So long as THAT is interpreted in the way it is, States have almost no power not subject to Federal oversight/regulation, and it doesn't matter one wit which way Senators were elected.

46 posted on 11/10/2010 9:42:13 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: GeronL
Yes, the dept of trans and the dept of ed are only ways for the gov to steal state's money and trickle it back as they see fit.

Disband the fed control over schools and highways. Both are unconstitutional anyway

Highways and schools will be in much better shape if this is done.

Minimize federal government!

47 posted on 11/10/2010 9:42:35 AM PST by Syncro ("Citizen Legislators": As It Was Intended...Not Full Time Politicians : >)
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To: Syncro

I 100% agree


48 posted on 11/10/2010 9:43:56 AM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: allmendream

I disagree. Vote grabbing by the states would be “give us our power back”.

Repeal the 17th and the 10th gets it’s teeth back.


49 posted on 11/10/2010 9:46:25 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan
How? You think it will be reflected in the Senatorial role of advise and consent to SCOTUS justices? Wow, repeal the 17th and in just a few short decades we MIGHT have an influence on how the interstate commerce clause is interpreted! Brilliant!

A Senator, no matter how elected, will be a federal officer and a suspect warden at best of the interests of State rights, he is much more likely to be (as they are now) an advocate for Federal (Senatorial) power and State interests (bringing home the pork).

It is not as if before the 17th the Federal government was kept in check and after the 17th it was runaway BECAUSE of the 17th. Federal power was expansive and encroaching LONG before the 17th, and the mechanism of such is an expansive reading of the interstate commerce clause.

Regulation of interstate commerce is not a blank check to regulate any and all behavior that may have any effect whatsoever on interstate commerce. THAT is the problem withe the balance of power between States and the Fed.

50 posted on 11/10/2010 9:54:26 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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