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Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment
Nationa Review Online ^ | November 10, 2010 | Todd Zywicki

Posted on 11/10/2010 7:26:53 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

First things first... let’s start by dumping the 14th amendment.


41 posted on 11/10/2010 8:50:49 AM PST by Elwood P. Doud (America, you voted for a negro socialist with an Islamic name - so why are you surprised?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Not going to happen... what we can do as Americans is to make certain that we inform our neighbors and friends when it is time to vote out a disgusting criminal power monger. We are not going to get term limits... we will never get the 17th repealed... even though I wish that we could... but 2010 has shown that we can throw the corrupt bastards out and we can stay engaged and do the hard work that it will take to salvage whatever soros and obama leave us with.

LLS

42 posted on 11/10/2010 8:54:57 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (WOLVERINES!)
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To: IamConservative
Yes, but as with any direct election, the influence of special interests can be countered by the vote of the people.

Not that it ended well (presumably in the first case), but does ANYONE think we would get a candidates like Miller in Alaska, or candidates OTHER than those like Castle from Delaware, if it were the State Legislatures selecting the candidates and voting on them?

A “moderate” party hack like Murkowski or Castle would be the order of the day if they were selected by State Legislatures.

43 posted on 11/10/2010 9:00:04 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Election of Senators by State Legislatures is an important check and balance of the Constitution. It divides the powerful Federal Congress into two different and competing constituencies. It is also republican in nature as it empowers elected State Representatives to chose their representative in the Federal government, a "Senator". The states currently do not have a representative in the Federal government. Our Federal government is effectively now made up of two House of Representatives', with NO Senate! What a huge loss. It was only after this important check to Federal usurpation was neutralized, with the direct election of Senators, that the United States began the widespread adoption of socialism. It is not coincidental.

Removing some legislative power from the people directly was and is wise. When Senators are elected by State Legislatures, they are accountable to the State Legislature that selected them. It is a completely different political dynamic. Whereas an individual may be interested in policies directly affecting them, the State Legislature has a broader perspective and is more likely interested in what affects the state as a whole. Both interests and perspectives are critical; losing either one is tragic. State Legislatures are more likely to be interested in checking federal power to jealously preserve their state's sovereignty. This is a great example of the founder's genius in using human nature to check human nature.
44 posted on 11/10/2010 9:06:07 AM PST by Kegger
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To: allmendream

The people are represented in the House. With the Senate also elected by popular vote, we have 2 chambers focused on vote grabbing through entitlements.

With a Senate beholden to a State legislator, the Senate would be beholden to the state. Since the state governments also want power, it becomes a balance between state and federal.


45 posted on 11/10/2010 9:27:00 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan
Vote “grabbing” through appeal to the electorate (which includes plenty of “bringing home the bacon/pork” to their districts) is FAR FAR better than Vote “grabbing” of the vote of State Legislators only via appeal to the interests of State politicians.

The problem of the imbalance of power between the State and Federal government is mostly through an expansive reading of the interstate commerce clause.

So long as THAT is interpreted in the way it is, States have almost no power not subject to Federal oversight/regulation, and it doesn't matter one wit which way Senators were elected.

46 posted on 11/10/2010 9:42:13 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: GeronL
Yes, the dept of trans and the dept of ed are only ways for the gov to steal state's money and trickle it back as they see fit.

Disband the fed control over schools and highways. Both are unconstitutional anyway

Highways and schools will be in much better shape if this is done.

Minimize federal government!

47 posted on 11/10/2010 9:42:35 AM PST by Syncro ("Citizen Legislators": As It Was Intended...Not Full Time Politicians : >)
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To: Syncro

I 100% agree


48 posted on 11/10/2010 9:43:56 AM PST by GeronL (http://libertyfic.proboards.com <--- My Fiction/ Science Fiction Board)
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To: allmendream

I disagree. Vote grabbing by the states would be “give us our power back”.

Repeal the 17th and the 10th gets it’s teeth back.


49 posted on 11/10/2010 9:46:25 AM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: 5thGenTexan
How? You think it will be reflected in the Senatorial role of advise and consent to SCOTUS justices? Wow, repeal the 17th and in just a few short decades we MIGHT have an influence on how the interstate commerce clause is interpreted! Brilliant!

A Senator, no matter how elected, will be a federal officer and a suspect warden at best of the interests of State rights, he is much more likely to be (as they are now) an advocate for Federal (Senatorial) power and State interests (bringing home the pork).

It is not as if before the 17th the Federal government was kept in check and after the 17th it was runaway BECAUSE of the 17th. Federal power was expansive and encroaching LONG before the 17th, and the mechanism of such is an expansive reading of the interstate commerce clause.

Regulation of interstate commerce is not a blank check to regulate any and all behavior that may have any effect whatsoever on interstate commerce. THAT is the problem withe the balance of power between States and the Fed.

50 posted on 11/10/2010 9:54:26 AM PST by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Constitutional changes such as repealing the 17th Amendment require a strong popular consensus. There is no such popular consensus today, nor is one likely to emerge in the near future.


51 posted on 11/10/2010 10:32:08 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: Kegger

Good post. With the fraudulent ratification of the 17th, the States were disenfranchised and the “Republic” envisioned by the founders was curtailed. The new Senate seats could then be bought more easily by special interests.


52 posted on 11/10/2010 10:47:29 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: 5thGenTexan

I agree. The 17th gutted the 10th. The States have no advocate as things stand now.


53 posted on 11/10/2010 10:52:05 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

You’re right! And, thanks for bringing that to my attention.


54 posted on 11/10/2010 11:09:08 AM PST by Skepolitic
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To: KarlInOhio
Every time I think of repealing the 17th, the Blagojevich’s Illinois senate auction comes to mind .

They are different things.

In Blago's case, he was filling a vacancy and the authority to appoint the Senator was solely his.

In the normal case prior to the 17th, it was the authority of the legislature as an entire body, not the Governor as an individual. There would have been many more checks and balances in the process.

-PJ

55 posted on 11/10/2010 1:28:49 PM PST by Political Junkie Too ("Comprehensive" reform bills only end up as incomprehensible messes.)
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To: bboop

And that would be different, how?


56 posted on 11/10/2010 1:32:50 PM PST by AnOldCowhand (The west is dead. You may lose a sweetheart, but you will never forget her - Charles Russell)
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To: allmendream
The fact is that repealing the 17th would be like turning a tanker ship, that is, a slow process of change.

If the people don't like the way the legislature is appointing its Senators, then the people at the grass roots will vote in new legislators until the make-up of the legislature is one that will appoint a Senator more to the peoples' liking.

This is the tie between the federal Senate and the local people. It is not direct and quick like it is with the House, but this is how to connect the tapestry of the Constitution with the people -- people vote for their state legislature, the legislature appoints a Senator. If the Senator fails to heed the state's wishes, the state will appoint someone new in six years. If the state legislature fails to appoint a Senator to the people's liking, the people will vote in a new legislature.

It takes time for changes to work their way through the system, but it all connects back to the people eventually, but it also ties local elections to the federal government.

-PJ

57 posted on 11/10/2010 1:41:24 PM PST by Political Junkie Too ("Comprehensive" reform bills only end up as incomprehensible messes.)
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To: Alamo-Girl

(((((((((AG)))))))))))


58 posted on 11/10/2010 9:14:13 PM PST by TEXOKIE (Anarchy IS the strategy of the forces of darkness!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The problems resulting from the 17th are well known to us now. Whatever problems there may have been under the prior system are NOT well known to us now. Honesty and prudence should require that any movement to repeal the 17th should include a lengthy review of how things were before the 17th. Changing the Constitution shouldn’t be done in haste. Maybe someone can dream up some modification to either the prior or current system, or something completely different that would work even better. And don’t place too much hope on any such reforms. Be glad California only gets two Senators; don’t expect than any other method by which they are freely chosen would give you results much better than their present pair.


59 posted on 11/10/2010 10:19:28 PM PST by JohnBovenmyer (It's not an election, it's a restraining order! - P.J. OÂ’Rourke)
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To: AnOldCowhand

Just a reminder - I am not single-handedly responsible for the state of California’s politics. The mocking and unending snide references to the pathetic politics here, although correct, are hardly visionary. It would be encouraging and even perhaps uplifting to be within a conservative community that knew there was work to be done and encouraged those of us who are doing it, rather than to have to duck incoming day after day.


60 posted on 11/11/2010 6:21:41 AM PST by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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