Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mass grave of history: Vatican's WWII identity crisis
The Jerusalem Post ^ | February 22, 2010 | Julia Gorin

Posted on 02/23/2010 5:58:17 AM PST by Ravnagora

Catholic Church, looking for a bulwark against communism, supported what became genocidal regime of Nazi satellite Croatia.

Photo courtesy of the United States Holocaust Museum

The controversy over the canonization of Pope Pius XII concerns whether he spoke out enough against the slaughter of Jews during World War II. But that question is a red herring when trying to grasp the big picture of the Vatican's role during the war.

The real question is whether the Vatican supported the world order, or at least aspects of it, that the Third Reich promised to bring, a world order in which dead Jews were collateral damage - which Pius indeed regretted. The answer can be found in a region of Europe that is generally ignored despite being the nexus of world wars: the Balkans.

The Catholic Church was looking for a bulwark against expanding, ruthless, church-destroying communism, but in doing so it supported a Croatian movement called Ustasha, which rose to become the genocidal regime of Nazi satellite Croatia.

American historian Jared Israel points to a February 17, 1941 New York Times article which reported that the archbishop of Zagreb (Croatia's capital), Alojzije (Aloysius) Stepinac, was holding conferences in Vatican City "seeking the freedom of Catholic priests detained in [pre-Nazi] Croatia in connection with the circulation of... 'Free Croatia!' pamphlets, attributed to Ante Pavelic." Pavelic, who once criticized Hitler for originally being too soft on the Jews, was the founder of the fascist Ustashas, who were engaging in terrorism all over Europe to "liberate" Croatia from Yugoslavia. He famously said, "A good Ustasha is one who can use a knife to cut a child from the womb of its mother."

Israel explains the significance of the understated Times article: "The arrested priests were agitating for a fascist coup d'etat," and if these had been rogue priests, "the Vatican would have disciplined them and perhaps issued a statement condemning them; it certainly would not have [held] top-level conferences to manage their defense."

At the time, Pavelic was being harbored in Mussolini's Italy - where his Ustasha soldiers were being trained - after France sentenced him to death for masterminding the 1934 double assassination of Yugoslavian King Alexander I and French foreign minister Louis Barthou. When Hitler invaded Yugoslavia in April 1941, Pavelic was activated and became fuehrer, or "Poglavnik," of the new, clerical-fascist Croatia.

Archbishop Stepinac held a banquet for Pavelic, blessed the Ustasha leader and regime, calling them "God's hand at work," and the following month had Pavelic received by Pius XII. This was four days after the massacre in the town of Glina, where the Ustashas locked hundreds of Serbian Orthodox inside their church and burned it down, as became standard practice in Pavelic's Independent State of Croatia (known by its Croatian acronym NDH). Pius XII received Pavelic despite a Yugoslav envoy's request that he not do so, given the atrocities taking place.

In July of that year, Pavelic's minister of education, Mile Budak, publicly outlined the purification process, already being implemented against Serbs: Kill a third, expel a third, convert a third.

That August, more than a thousand Serbs had gathered inside another Glina church for conversion, after which Zagreb police chief Bozidar Corouski announced, "Now that you are all Roman Catholics, I guarantee you that I can save your souls, but I cannot save your bodies." In came Ustasha henchmen with bludgeons, knives and axes, killing all but one man - Ljuban Jednak - who played dead, then stole away from the mass grave he was dumped into.

Pius and Pavelic continued exchanging "cordial telegrams," as author Vladimir Dedijer - former cochairman of Bertrand Russell's International War Crimes Tribunal - wrote in his 1992 book The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican. The Croatian Catholic press consistently published approving articles about the regime.

In his forthcoming book The Krajina Chronicles: A Short History of Serbs in Croatia, Slavonia and Dalmatia, Dr. Srdja Trifkovic writes, "A part of the Roman Catholic hierarchy became de facto accomplices, as did a majority of the clergy. The leading NDH racial 'theorist' was a clergyman, Dr. Ivo Guberina... He urged Croatia's 'cleansing of foreign elements' by any means. His views were echoed by the influential head of the Ustasha Central Propaganda Office, Fr. Grga Peinovic.

"When the anti-Serb and anti-Jewish racial laws of April and May 1941 were enacted, the Catholic press welcomed them as vital for 'the survival and development of the Croatian nation'... Archbishop of Sarajevo [then part of Croatia] Ivan Saric declared... 'It is stupid and unworthy of Christ's disciples to think that the struggle against evil could be waged... with gloves on.'"

IN AN unusual move, Germany entrusted Croatia with running its own concentration camps, without oversight. Shamefully, clergy members took a voracious dive into the bloodbath, serving as guards, commanders and executioners at the 40 camps, most famously Jasenovac, the Holocaust's third-largest yet least spoken-of camp. There, they killed Serbs, Jews, Gypsies and anti-fascist Croats. On August 29, 1942, a friar from the monastery of Siroki Brijeg, named Petar Brzica, won first place for killing the most Serbs in the shortest time, boasting 1,350 throats slit in one night.

Historian Carl Savich quotes an AP report stating that "a priest from Petricevac led Croat fascists, armed with hatchets and knives, to a nearby village. In the 1942 attack, they butchered 2,300 Serbs." Testimony from a survivor of that February 7 massacre, Selo Drakulic, reads: "Prior to killing the adults, unborn children were violently cut from their mothers' womb[s] and slaughtered. Of the remaining children in the village, all under the age of 12, the Ustashas brutally removed arms, legs, noses, ears and genitals. Young girls were raped and killed, while their families were forced to witness the violation and carnage. The most grotesque torture of all was the decapitation of children, their heads thrown into the laps of their mothers, who were themselves then killed."

Archive photos of sadism that would make horror filmmakers blush survive today: Ustashas displaying an Orthodox priest's head; an eyeless peasant woman; Serbs and Jews being pushed off a cliff; a Serb with a saw to his neck; and a smiling Ustasha holding the still-beating heart of prominent industrialist Milos Teslitch, who had been castrated, disemboweled and his ears and lips cut off.

Italian writer Curzio Malaparte in his 1944 book Kaputt offers this detail: "While [Pavelic] spoke, I gazed at a wicker basket on the Poglavnik's desk [which] seemed to be filled with mussels, or shelled oysters... 'Are they Dalmatian oysters?' I asked. [Pavelic] said smiling, 'It is a present from my loyal Ustashas... Forty pounds of human eyes.'"

In their 1991 book Unholy Trinity: The Vatican, the Nazis and the Swiss Banks, reporter Mark Aarons and former Justice Department attorney John Loftus corroborate the grisly Croatian crimes, as does Genocide in Satellite Croatia 1941-1945 by Edmond Paris: "The Italians photographed an Ustasha wearing two chains of human tongues and ears around his neck."

It has been 60 years, and the world still doesn't know the story of wartime Croatia, where not only did the Vatican not speak out against crimes, not only was it complicit in the genocide of a million people, but it subsequently never expressed remorse for the spilled Orthodox blood as it's done for Jewish blood. Because the world never demanded it. Which points to the same apprehensions that have dogged Jewish groups about the Vatican's genuineness, especially with its reluctance to open archives about Pius's World War II conduct.

ONE CAN'T help wondering whether the Vatican as an institution was silently cheering the decimation of its Orthodox rival. Stepinac, who was photographed blessing the Ustashas before an upcoming battle or slaughter, reported in May 1944 the good news about 244,000 forced conversions to Pius. (Pius himself might have caught BBC broadcasts such as on February 16, 1942: "The Orthodox are being forcibly converted to Catholicism and we do not hear the archbishop's voice preaching revolt. Instead it is reported that he is taking part in Nazi and fascist parades.") Observing the liquidation of Croatia's Orthodox, Heinrich Himmler's second-in-command, Reinhard Heydrich, wrote a February 17, 1942, letter to Himmler stating, "It is clear that the Croat-Serbian state of tension is not least of all a struggle of the Catholic Church against the Orthodox Church."

It is not Jews to whom the Church owes the biggest apology over World War II, but Serbs. If by not speaking out about Europe's Jews Pius hoped to avoid endangering millions of Catholics, what could have been the reason for not speaking out about Croatia, which itself horrified the Nazis to the point that German and Italian soldiers started shielding Serbs from Ustashas? And what would have been the risk to the faithful inside Croatia?

A July 5, 1994, Washington Times article attempted to get to the bottom of why so little is known of the Croatia chapter of World War II, and why Jasenovac is so rarely spoken of: "For years the gruesome details... remained officially taboo. Although documents and eyewitness accounts were at first ignored, and then mysteriously removed from international archives... [i]t now appears that a vast international conspiracy involving Marshal Josip Broz Tito... [and] the United Nations, some Vatican officials and even Jewish organizations strove to keep the Jasenovac story buried forever... Tito's watchwords were 'brotherhood and unity,' and to pursue these high goals he tried to erase the chapter of Jasenovac. The West generally went along, particularly after Tito broke with Stalin in 1948. The Vatican wanted to protect Roman Catholic Croats, who had been willing Nazi proxies in the Balkans.

"The silence of Jewish organizations is less easily explained... [The late Milan Bulajic, of Belgrade's Genocide Museum, met] officials of the Holocaust Museum [in Washington to] find out why no one mentions the Yugoslav Jews who died there. He did not seem to get a clear-cut answer... When Yugoslavia fell apart in 1991... troops of newly independent Croatia briefly captured the site and, according to Serbian sources, blew up whatever was left of the camp and destroyed all remaining records."

An apology is also owed to Catholic clergy whose appeals the Church ignored. Archbishop Misic of Mostar, Herzegovina, asked Stepinac to use his influence with authorities to prevent the massacres. And Bulajic wrote of a group of Slovenian Catholic priests who were "sent to the Jasenovac camp because they refused to serve a mass of thanksgiving to Ustasha leader Ante Pavelic... One of the imprisoned Slovenian priests, Anton Rantasa, managed to escape... On 10 November 1942, he informed [Stepinac and the papal legate Ramiro Marcone]... on the crimes of genocide being perpetrated at Jasenovac. He was told to keep silent."

Similarly, historian Savich writes, "It bears noting that Stepinac was tried and convicted... by Roman Catholic Croats... under the regime of a Roman Catholic Croatian... Many of the historians who documented the Ustasha NDH genocide were Roman Catholic Croats, such as Viktor Novak."

In his 1950 book Behind the Purple Curtain, Walter Montano wrote of the Stepinac trial: "A parade of prosecution witnesses testified at Zagreb, on October 5, 1946, that Catholic priests armed with pistols went out to convert Orthodox Serbs and massacred them... Most of the witnesses were Croat Catholic peasants and laborers."

INDEED, JUST as blame for tacit approval of a genocide and subsequent escape for the perpetrators can't fall merely on "a few individuals," it's more than a few individuals who deserve credit for the opposite. For example, Jews were saved by the entire Catholic nation of Italy (in its sovereign pre-1943 form), including the commandant of the Ferramonti concentration camp, who "said his job was to protect the inmates, not kill them," as UPI reported in 2003. Not surprisingly, Italian soldiers also intervened in the slaughter of Serbs by Croats and Axis-aligned Albanians in Kosovo.

Unfortunately, rather than distancing the Church from Aloysius Stepinac, the Vatican-centered newspaper L'Osservatore Romano responded that the "trial was a trial against the Catholic Church." New York cardinal Francis Spellman outrageously named a parochial school in White Plains after Stepinac, and in 1952 Pius XII made him cardinal. Then, despite requests by the Simon Wiesenthal Center to hold off until the cardinal's wartime role could be better assessed, Pope John Paul II beatified Stepinac in 1998.

Croatian groups (and some Croatian Jews) even appealed to Yad Vashem to give Stepinac the Righteous Gentile title, since he saved some Jews on condition of conversion. To which Yad Vashem had to reply in almost absurd terms: "Persons who assisted Jews but simultaneously collaborated or were linked with a fascist regime which took part in the Nazi-orchestrated persecution of Jews, may be disqualified for the Righteous title."

The same should be said to Pope Benedict about his efforts to canonize Pius XII. Even as it denied Stepinac's well known association with the Ustasha, Pius's Vatican served as the conduit for smuggling the Ustashas out after the war. According to declassified US documents introduced in a recent class-action lawsuit against the Vatican Bank for laundering Ustasha loot - used to finance the Ustashas' escapes and postwar sustenance - Pavelic was hidden in a Croatian Catholic monastery in Rome, where the office of the American Counterintelligence Corps on September 12, 1947, reported that "Pavelic's contacts are so high, and his present position is so compromising to the Vatican, that any extradition of subject would deal a staggering blow to the Roman Catholic Church." From Rome, Pavelic fled to Argentina, where he became a security adviser to Juan Peron, who issued thousands of visas to fleeing Ustashas.

Haaretz in 2006 reported that Msgr. Giovanni Battista Montini, Pius's undersecretary of state and later Pope Paul VI, learned of "the investigation [that US Army counterintelligence agent William] Gowen's unit was conducting. Montini complained about Gowen to his superiors and accused him of having violated the Vatican's immunity by having entered church buildings, such as the Croatian college, and conducting searches there. The aim of the complaint was to interfere with the investigation."

A May 2007 press release from plaintiffs' attorney Jonathan Levy in the Vatican Bank case states, "To date, the Vatican attorneys... [are] insisting that the Vatican Bank's money laundering scheme for Axis plunder violated no international law, since the Ustasha's victims, mainly Orthodox Christian Serbs, were technically citizens of 'Independent' Croatia. The unrepentant tone of the Vatican bodes poorly for Pius XII and the current controversy involving his elevation to sainthood."

THE VATICAN'S ongoing World War II identity crisis was evident last September when, after prodding from Croatian leaders, Zagreb Archbishop Josip Bozanic paid a 60-year-late visit to the Jasenovac memorial site, the first official representative of the Croatian Church to attend the annual memorial ceremony. Instead of an apology, Bozanic defended Stepinac and the Church, and used the long-awaited moment to also mourn the massacre of fleeing Nazis by partisans in Bleiburg, Austria - where an annual, Croatian government-sponsored commemoration ceremony is well attended by Catholic dignitaries. Bozanic was not reproached by the Vatican, which also doesn't reproach the Croatian Church's tolerance of the ubiquitous pro-Nazi symbolism in that country, which reemerged as Croatian "culture" in the early 1990s.

President Stjepan Mesic himself, who just left office after 10 years, had to recently ask the Vatican to pay closer attention to a bishop and military chaplain who regularly recites a violent poem that ends with the Ustasha saying: "For the fatherland, ready."

This is the Balkan country that's on the fast-track for EU membership. That's where decades of evasion, deflection and cover-up get us, something that contributed to John Paul II's own neglect of Jasenovac - the Balkans' largest killing grounds - during his three trips to Croatia. It also leads us to last December's spectacle of Pope Benedict having a private audience with Marko Perkovic, lead singer of the notorious clerical-fascist Croatian pop band Thompson, which regularly invokes "For the fatherland, ready" and had odes to concentration camps on earlier albums. Many Thompson fans engage in Nazi salutes, and nuns and politicians attend the "patriotic" concerts.

People bury history in order to repeat it. John Ranz, chairman of Buchenwald Survivors, in a 1996 letter to The New York Times, wrote: "Ironically, with US help, [1990s president] Franjo Tudjman was able to accomplish last year what the Nazis and their World War II collaborators could not, namely the uprooting of the entire Serbian Krajina population... The World War II fascist regime of Ante Pavelic is being officially rehabilitated in Croatia today. Streets and public buildings are being named after the architects of the Holocaust, Nazi-era currency revived, while the numbers and scope of the human carnage are being rewritten."

Had history not been dumped into a mass grave, Western publics might have been allowed a fuller understanding of the Balkan wars, given that by 1991 it was "normal to kill Serbs," as Zarko Puhovski, of the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights, put it. When Croatia seceded from Yugoslavia in June 1991 - and the Vatican was the first to recognize it despite a UN resolution warning this could imperil a peaceful solution - survival dictated that the Serbs secede from the secessionists. "A few days after the Croatians declared war," writes historian Israel, Pope John Paul II "sent a letter to the Yugoslav government demanding it not suppress the rebellion." And so it was that in 1991 three Croatian soldiers saw "truckloads of bloated, stinking bodies, mothers and children blown up by bombs, and someone wearing a necklace made of ears," Reuters reported on January 28, 1998.

And so it was that president Tudjman was a prominent guest at the inauguration of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in 1993, despite saying that "900,000 died, not 6 million," and ranged from calling Jasenovac a "myth," to blaming Jews for the killings there, to offering a formal apology for the 20,000 Jews killed there - but not for the several hundred thousand Serbs. And so it was that in 1995, as Croatian soldiers with Ustasha insignia cleansed the Krajina of Serbs - under US air cover - the Glina massacre survivor Ljuban Jednak once again fled for his life, dying a refugee in 1997.

And so it was that in 2005, when then Hague prosecutor Carla del Ponte learned that indicted 1990s war criminal Gen. Ante Gotovina was being sheltered in a Franciscan monastery in Croatia, the Roman Catholic lady found herself "'extremely disappointed' to encounter a wall of silence from the Vatican" which, she told the Daily Telegraph, "could probably pinpoint exactly which of Croatia's 80 monasteries was sheltering him 'in a few days.'"

And so it was that at the 2006 inauguration of the spruced-up Jasenovac memorial, the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Efraim Zuroff observed "the absence of any identification of the individuals responsible for the crimes described... I was amazed that none of the speakers mentioned... Croatia's greatest achievement in facing its Ustasha past - the prosecution and conviction of Jasenovac commander Dinko Sakic... Could it be that the punishment of such a criminal... is so unpopular, even in today's Croatia...?"

And so it was that Sakic was buried last July in full Nazi uniform, with a Father Vjekoslav Lasic - one of many who hold masses in honor of Ante Pavelic - officiating. "Independent State of Croatia is the foundation of today's homeland of Croatia," Lasic said. "Every honorable Croat is proud of the name Dinko Sakic."

When no Croatian official of stature spoke out against the display, Zuroff called on the president to condemn the organizers and remind Croatian society that Sakic brought it shame, not pride.

In enshrining the Church's divided World War II loyalties by canonizing the ambivalent pope at the time, the Church would be announcing to the world what it's made of. But the Church is better than the sum of its nastier parts. Canonizing Pius XII would be unjust to Catholics who did more than he, and an insult to Catholics everywhere. Pius shouldn't be demonized, but he shouldn't be sanctified.

The writer specializes in the Balkans, and is an unpaid advisory board member of the American Council for Kosovo.

*****


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; croatia; holocaust; nazi; piusxii; ratlines; serbs; ustasha; vatican; wwii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-111 next last
To: dsc

New math.


61 posted on 02/24/2010 7:26:18 AM PST by Jaded (I realized that after Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says W T F)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: dsc
"Catholics are not “followers” of the Pope. We are followers of Our Lord and God Jesus Christ."

So why defend the Pope if he helped in enabling the deaths of fellow Catholics?

62 posted on 02/24/2010 7:28:46 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: grand wazoo; getoffmylawn
"Suffice it to say that there are ancient hatreds on both sides. Prior to the Ustasa there were Chetniks."

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

That's right folks, we have yet another Croatian Ustasha apologist in our midst, next you'll be claiming that Jasenovac wasn't really a death camp but halfway house for displaced people.

63 posted on 02/24/2010 7:33:40 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: big'ol_freeper

So Pope Pius XII helps defend clergy who were responsible for the deaths of fellow Catholics and you are calling this anti-Catholic.

Wow.


64 posted on 02/24/2010 7:43:33 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Ravnagora

65 posted on 02/24/2010 7:57:22 AM PST by javie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ravnagora

grand wazoo is a crypto fascist masquerading as a conservative.


66 posted on 02/24/2010 8:21:53 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: WILLIALAL

Your whole premise is preposterous and not worthy of serious discussion. Martyring oneself to the Nazis would have been a waste the entire world was fighting them. whatever dream on as to how the pope needed to commit suicide. I’m sure if you search your soul you can find something to martyr yourself over and get back to me so we canm canonize you.

I guess this is the new level of Catholic hating. The pope didn’t die soon enough for you.


67 posted on 02/24/2010 8:33:50 AM PST by Williams (It's the policies, stupid)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Ravnagora

The Catholic Church had nothing to do with it. Like most of Central Europe, Croatia was caught between two forms of evil, totalitarian socialism—Nazi and Communist. Pretty hard to distinguish between them. They were both amazingly evil, vile, and destructive.

As for the various killings, most of it was done by Stalin and Hitler. But they did stir up the old tribal hatreds in the region. Those were far from one sided. The Serbs, the Croats, and others had been killing each other for centuries, and who was originally responsible was pretty well lost in the sands of time.

Because the Communists and leftists have pretty much controlled the propaganda machines since Hitler went down, the Croats have gotten a worse rap than some of the others. Hard to justify. There’s plenty of blame to go around—not least against the invading Muslim hordes.


68 posted on 02/24/2010 9:48:53 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
"But they did stir up the old tribal hatreds in the region.

This wasn't about "tribal hatreds", Cicero. This was about a clerico-fascist regime:

Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations, Europe, edition 1995, page 91, entry: Croatia

Quote:

Slavko Kvaternik [the second in command to the Croatian WWII fuehrer, Dr Ante Pavelic] explained [on the day of formation of the WWII "Independent State of Croatia", on April 10, 1941] how pure Croatia should be built - by forcing one third of the Serbs to leave Croatia, one third to convert to Catholicism, and one third to be exterminated. Soon Ustasha bands initiated a bloody orgy of mass murder of Serbs unfortunate enough not to have converted or left Croatia on time. The enormity of such criminal behavior shocked even the conscience of German commanders...

Jasenovac was the only deathcamp in Europe NOT run by Nazi Germany, but instead was run by the Croatian Ustashi themselves.

The distance between Rome and Zagreb, Croatia is only a little over 300 miles. There were Papal legates, like the one pictured above back & forth between the two cities along with a few thousand Italian troops along the Coast. It is absolutely unbelievable that with hundreds of thousands of Serbs, Jews & Gypsies being massacred a few hundred miles away over the course of 4 years in the name of "a 100% Catholic Croatia", that "Pope Pius didn't know".

While he may not have been able to stop the Germans, he certainly could have stopped the forced conversions and the clerical participation and blessing of this mass murder, but instead he raised no objections. He just looked the other way.

It's for God to judge the full extent of Pius' sin, but to make Pius "a saint" is to degrade the Church itself.

69 posted on 02/24/2010 12:14:37 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
"There’s plenty of blame to go around—not least against the invading Muslim hordes."

And by the way, during WWII, the Croatian Ustahe regime made the Bosnian Muslims into "Honorary Croats"

70 posted on 02/24/2010 12:20:46 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Bokababe

I wasn’t trying to say that no evil was done. I suppose there will always be defective or sometimes evil bishops, and people who do things in the name of the Church that should never be done.

Even in a time of peace, the papacy was unable to get a handle on all of the dissident, sometimes heretical bishops right here in the U.S.A. Some of them ran mafia rings of homosexual priests, some of them merely vandalized the liturgy and catechetics, driving people out of the Church by the thousands. Dissident nuns led their orders astray and abandoned the Church by the thousands. There was no Hitler to intervene if the Pope had acted, yet he was apparently unable to bring those disasters back under control.

At the same time, evils were committed on all sides, by Communists and Nazis and by the various peoples who were caught in the middle. Could Pope Pius have stopped it? I doubt it. The bishops who behaved in this way doubtless were excommunicated latae sententiae, but I doubt that it bothered them any more then than the self-excommunication of some of the worst dissident bishops here.

Similarly, just about the entire Orthodox hierarchy in Russia went along with Stalin and the KGB back in those times, and the National Catholic Church in China went along with Mao. Not much the Pope could do about that, either. There were martyrs who resisted, but they were replaced by men who went along.


71 posted on 02/24/2010 12:30:29 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: WILLIALAL
>>>>>>>What could he have done? Look back to the early church leaders who were also surrounded by an antagonistic empire.<<<<<<<<<

Agree. Pius XII could not do much in The Third Reich nor in German-occupied countries where RC priests were sent to Nazi concentration camps.

But, Independent State of Croatia was not occupied by Nazis, it was Nazi Ally. And there, out of 1700 RC priests, some 1400 participated in slaughter of innocents. The Personal envoy of Pius XII was there during the war and it is highly unlikely that Pius XII did not know what was going on there.

Rome was liberated June 5, 1944. Pius XII supported the Nazis even after demise of the Third Reich May 9, 1945. Ratlines were run from the Vatican, surrounded by Allied forces. Not exactly definition of "antagonistic empire".

Pius XII support to Nazis after The Third Reich fell is the issue we are dealing here with.

72 posted on 02/24/2010 12:54:06 PM PST by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: grand wazoo
"Julia Gorin is a failed leftist comic. Her family are Russian communists. Anything that she writes should be understood as an attack against the Catholic church. She's a crypto-communist masquerading as a conservative. Sort of like Frumm, Medved, or Horowitz.

Yeah she is so "leftist" and "failed as a comic" that she was a comedian at the Laugh Factory for the 2004 Republican National Convention delegates. She and her family escaped Russia back in the 1980's when the Soviets weren't exactly friendly to Jews and she is adamantly Conservative.

You just make this crap up as you go along, don't you?

73 posted on 02/24/2010 1:40:25 PM PST by Bokababe (Save Christian Kosovo! http://www.savekosovo.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: dsc
Again, you are only looking at the number of Jews exterminated. There were many more which didn't fit into that group. Check out what happened in Poland, and the Balkans.
74 posted on 02/24/2010 1:49:42 PM PST by WILLIALAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: dsc

so once again, I ask what would be a qualified response from the Pope, when he knew exterminations were going on?
Where was the public outcry from him? Where was the forth right effort to stand up for those who could not stand for themselves.
I’m not saying Pius was an evil man, but to have him placed upon a pedestal and assume he did all that was required of him is a far stretch.
Again I think you would have had a different outcome had Pope John Paul been there.


75 posted on 02/24/2010 1:54:33 PM PST by WILLIALAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
>>>>>>But they did stir up the old tribal hatreds in the region. Those were far from one sided. The Serbs, the Croats, and others had been killing each other for centuries, and who was originally responsible was pretty well lost in the sands of time.<<<<

The claim of centuries old hatred between Serbs and Croats is widespread, but it is not true. In the past, until XX century, there was no bloodletting between Serbs and Croats. Slight animosity existed due to different social position in the Austro-Hungarian empire, but not hatred because of killings. Croats even decided to adopt Serbian language as their own standard language. It could not be possible if there was centuries old hatred.

Also, it is worth noting that both Serbs and Croats are ancient peoples while Serbians and Croatians were nations created by the different political will. Croatians as a nation included ethnic Croats and all other Roman Catholics living in South Hungary. Serb living in South Hungary could declare himself to be Serb or Croatian, but not Serbian. Or, Croat living in Serbia could declare himself to be Serbian, but not a Serb. All this changed with WWI when driven by racist propaganda Croatians commited first large scale murders of Serbs on Austro-Hungarian territory and later, in Western Serbia.

It all got worse some 30 years later, with genocide of Serbs in Independent State of Croatia.This is all XX Century history and much of it living history. It is not ancient hatred at all.

76 posted on 02/24/2010 1:56:35 PM PST by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: montyspython

“So why defend the Pope if he helped in enabling the deaths of fellow Catholics?”

Thank you for understanding my point. I don’t understand the reluctance to admit there was a weakness of response from the Catholic leadership on this issue. The facts speak for themselves.


77 posted on 02/24/2010 2:04:03 PM PST by WILLIALAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: Ravnagora

Remember folks, “anti-communist” is not synonymous with “good guy.” See the Ustashe, Mujahadeen, JP Duvallier, etc.


78 posted on 02/24/2010 2:08:40 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dsc
““Inaction in the face of a crime is not a defense.””

“And the creation of a malicious myth—such as the fictitious inaction in which you believe—is a gravely evil deed.”

Look, you are creating no fear in me over my criticisms of Pope Pius. Evil deeds? How about cowering away from direct confrontation with the Nazi's? How evil is that? Pope John Paul didn't shirk his responsibilities. He recognized and fought against the Soviets publicly.

79 posted on 02/24/2010 2:09:35 PM PST by WILLIALAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: DTA
“Agree. Pius XII could not do much in The Third Reich nor in German-occupied countries where RC priests were sent to Nazi concentration camps.”

Monsignor Hugh O’Flaherty. Check out his story. This is the kind of action taken by just one Monsignor.
Pastor Gustaw Manitius.
There is a long long list of real leaders who stood behind their beliefs.

80 posted on 02/24/2010 2:30:26 PM PST by WILLIALAL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101-111 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson