Mass grave of history: Vatican's WWII identity crisis

The Jerusalem Post ^ | February 22, 2010 | Julia Gorin

[montyspython]

How about helping to secure the escape of clergy who did commit genocide, shouldn’t THAT be considered a crime?

[WILLIALAL]

Absolutely!

[Petronski]

The main accusations in this article against Pius XII and Archbishop Stephinac were comprehensively demolished by the British historian Michael Burliegh, Sacred Causes.

[Petronski]

All this under the aegis of the Nazi Pope at the Vatican!

I'll pray for you.

[WILLIALAL]

So Rome being occupied by the Nazi’s is all it took to silence the Pope.
Assasination attempts didn’t silence Pope John Paul.

[WILLIALAL]

“Willialal, you astound me”

Well thank you, dsc, but I'll put my faith in the character of John Paul, you can stand with Pius XII. Enough said.

[Antoninus]

So Rome being occupied by the Nazi’s is all it took to silence the Pope.

Pius XII was not silent. I would recommend, however, that you be silent on this issue for the sake of your soul. Slander is a sin.

[WILLIALAL]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127928

Differing opinions.

[grand wazoo]

She and her family escaped Russia back in the 1980's when the Soviets weren't exactly friendly to Jews and she is adamantly Conservative.

Many people who left the USSR in the 1980s were communists who had fallen out of favor with the people in power. They had enough money and connections in order to bribe their way out. If anything, her family should have stayed and suffered the same fate as her comrades.

Like most communists they hate the Catholic church for being a beacon of truth. She is playing Serbs for fools and using them as convenient proxies in her war against the Catholic church.

She is a proven liar who is attempting to advance her pathetic "comedy" career by being the lone female conservative comic.

[grand wazoo]

How is she masquerading as a conservative? Have you read any of her other articles or are you simply making a judgment call based on this one article?

What dog does she have in the fight between Serbs and Croats? What is her motivation? Is she impartial?

No. She is a proven liar. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

I understand that politics can make strange bedfellows, however her motives are transparent. But go ahead and hop into bed with her, just don't be surprised when you end up with a disease.

[grand wazoo]

Just for you.

Untold Holocaust of Jews in Serbia

[Bokababe]

"Like most communists they hate the Catholic church for being a beacon of truth.

The Vatican has been nothing but "a beacon of lies" on the issue of the WWII Croatian Ustashi.

They've beatified Cardinal Stepinac and named high schools after him, in spite of the fact that he blessed this WWII butchery of Serbs, Jews and Gypsies

The Vatican sent a crack team of lawyers to exploit every legal technicality to make sure that the surviving victims of the Ustashi would never see a cent of the money stolen from them during the war -- even though the Vatican never even challenged the nature of the crimes that were committed against these victims.

And then all you do is sit here and continue to lie about it and trash Julia Gorin as "a communist" -- blaming a victim of communism as some sort of perpetrator .

You have no shame whatever, do you? Disgusting!

[Bokababe]

Untold Holocaust of Jews in Serbia

Oh and try not to notice that the website at the beginning of the film is in Croatia!

[grand wazoo]

Oh and try not to notice that the website at the beginning of the film is in Croatia!

Dear God if a Croatian website has their watermark or stamp on it then it must be false! Is Sally Kellerman (the film's narrator) impartial? I would say no, but she does not have the credibility issues that Julia Goran, the commie symp, has.

[Bokababe]

Dear God if a Croatian website has their watermark or stamp on it then it must be false!

Croatia produced a lot of propaganda when the war was going on in the 1990's, and this was a piece of it -- anything to slime the Serbs to make Croatia's WWII history look not so bad. This was part of James Harff' (Ruder Finn's) PR strategy:

Harrf: For 18 months, we have been working for the Republics of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as for the opposition in Kosovo. Throughout this period, we had many successes, giving us a formidable international image. We intend to make advantage of this and develop commercial agreements with these countries. Speed is vital, because items favourable to us must be settled in public opinion. The first statement counts. The retractions have no effect.

Marlino: How often do you intervene?

Harff: Quantity is not important. You have to intervene at the right time with the right person. From June to September, we organized 30 meetings with the main press agencies, as well as meetings between Bosnian officials and Al Gore, Lawrence Eagleburger and 10 influential senators, among them George Mitchell and Robert Dole. We also sent out 13 exclusive news items, 37 last-minute faxes, 17 official letters and eight official reports. We placed 20 telephone calls to White House staff, 20 senators, and close to 100 to journalists, editors, newscaters and other influential people in the media.

Question: What achievement were you most proud of?

Harff: To have managed to put Jewish opinion on our side. This was a sensitive matter, as the dossier was dangerous looked from this angle. President Tudjman [of Croatia] was very careless in his book "Wastelands of Historical Reality". Reading this writtings, one could accuse him of of antisemitism. In Bosnia, the situation was no better: President Izetbegovic strongly supported the creation of a fundamentalist Islamic state [there] in his book "The Islamic Declaration". Besides, the Croatian and Bosnian past was marked by a real and cruel anti-semitism. Tens of thousands of Jews perished in Croatian camps. So there was every reason for intellectuals and Jewish organizations to be hostile towards the Croats and Bosnians. Our challenge was to reverse this attitude. And we succeded masterfully. At the beginning of August 1992, New York Newsday came out with the affair of [Serb] concentration camps. We jumped at the opportunity immediately. We outwitted three big Jewish organizations - B'nai B'rith Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee, and the American Jewish Congress. We suggested to them to publish an advertisement in the "New York Times" and to organize demonstrations outside the United Nations. That was a tremendous coup. When the Jewish organizations entered the game on the side of the [Muslim] Bosnians, we could promptly equate the Serbs with the Nazis in the public mind. Nobody understood what was happening in Yugoslavia. The great majority of Americans were probably asking themselves in which African country Bosnia was situated. But by a single move we were able to present a simple story of good guys and bad guys, which would hereafter play itself. We won by targeting Jewish audience. Almost immediately there was a clear change of language in the press, with the use of words with high emotional content, such as "ethnic cleansing", "concentration camps", etc., which evoked images of Nazi Germany and the gas chambers of Auschwitz. The emotional charge was so powerful that nobody could go against it.

Marlino: But when you did all of this, you had no proof that what you said was true. You only had the article in "Newsday"!

Harff: Our work is not to verify information. We are not equipped for that. Our work is to accelerate the circulation of information favorable to us, to aim at judiciously chosen targets. We did not confirm the existence of death camps in Bosnia, we just made it known that "Newsday" affirmed it.

Marlino: Are you aware that you took on a grave responsibility?

Harff: We are professionals. We had a job to do and we did it. We are not paid to be moral.

— James Harff, Director of Ruder Finn, Global Public affairs section, in the Jacques Merlino interview, April 1993. (reprinted in a book in Oct. 1993)

[Bokababe]

"She (Julia Gorin) is a proven liar. A wolf in sheep's clothing."

You are full of crap and I hope that God gives you swift kick in the butt for your lies against her!

Julia Gorin had no dog in this fight, but she knew enough of history to have a very unsettled feeling based on the propaganda she was hearing on the news back in the 1990's. She didn't even know any Serbs at the time, but something about the whole thing just didn't feel right. When Clinton turned his back on the US Constitution and used NATO to bomb Serbia in 1999, that was it for her -- she knew in her gut that something was completely wrong. That's when she started writing about it. Knowing the relentless propaganda against Jews before WWII, she knew the propaganda when she saw it again -- this time used against Serbs for the benefit of Muslims and Croats -- two of the worst WWII killers of Jews and Serbs.

And she wasn't wrong, although it took years to prove it.

Bosnia was where the WWII Mufti of Jerusalem recruited his Muslim SS Handzar unit for Hitler, and 1990's Bosnian President Alija Izetbegovic who we championed, had been one of the Mufti's youth recruiters. Izetbegovic was a radical Islamist. Ultimately, in 2002, the US found the first known al Qaeda documents in Bosnia dated two years before the Bosnian war.

WWII Croatia which had been closely allied with Nazi Germany, produced a new generation of neo-Nazis that won their independence in the 1990's -- but just couldn't give up the "Sieg Heil!"

The story with the Albanians was much the same -- WWII killers of Serbs and Jews, but America's new pets.

In short, we have championed all WWII Nazi Germany's pet AGAINST those who were WWII US Allies. It's as though we have started loving anyone who hates America and we hate everyone who loves America -- and that trend started in the 1990's and the US has been headed downhill ever since.

As for your so-called "proof" against Julia, I know who that "Brad" is. He and his girlfriend both worked for the military in Kosovo (notice the word "publicist"). When he she both started spreading around more propaganda for the Albanians and against the Serbs, Julia called them on it -- and "Brad" has had a grudge against Julia ever since. It's garbage, not "proof"

My cousins are Croats, one of my closest friends is Croat. And I love them dearly-- but it's guys like you who keep trying to convince everyone that WWII Croatia "wasn't so bad" and "it's just those damn Serbs who won't shut up about it who are the problem" that make me sick. Because if you can justify something like this --Serb children starved to death because they aren't Roman Catholic- then, you can justify just about anything.

[iopscusa]

WAHOO, KitmanTV.blogspot have other documentaries re Balkins.
BOKABABE, thanks for the info on the Croatian/Nazi/Vatican history. Personally, as an avid amateur Historian, I’m amazed at how the historic flashpoints such as the intersection of Islam and the Christian World continue to boil onto the global stage, just as these ancient hatreds seem to infect all Balkin threads right here on FR...

[montyspython]

In other words, you hate Jews that have poignantly revealed cracks in the Vatican/Croatian veneer is what you’re really saying.

Thanks for clarifying the matter.

[montyspython]

You are absolutely shameful, apologizing for the Ustasa through historical revisionist propaganda is as anti Christian as it gets.

[montyspython]

"Dear God if a Croatian website has their watermark or stamp on it then it must be false!"

It usually is, Croatia has spent millions trying to revise history through PR scams. However I do have some news for you...

No one is buying it. Just admit it, you hate Jews and Serbs, I'd rather you display a bit of intellectual honesty regarding your motives.