Nations beaten by underestimated foes

Aberdeen American News ^ | April 18, 2004 | Art Marmorstein

[jwalburg]

In AD 627, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius won a great victory over the Persians at Nineveh, and the long, bitter struggle between the Byzantines and the Persians came to an end. The Persian army was destroyed, and the Byzantines gained control of virtually all the territory the two empires had fought over for so long.

Victory at last! Peace at last! Time to enjoy a peace dividend! And, even better, time to turn on the real enemy: themselves.

Bitter political and ideological struggles had divided the Byzantines from the beginnings of their history, but now these struggles turned particularly vicious. Ten years after his great victory over the Persians, Heraclius discovered members of his own family plotting against him. The conspirators had their noses and hands cut off. One of them had a leg amputated as well.

After Heraclius' death, his wife Martina became the de facto ruler. But opposition to her high-handed ways provoked riots in the streets and revolts among the troops. In the end, Martina was forced from power. Her tongue was cut out, and she was sent into exile. Two of her sons had their noses cut off. A third was castrated.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Amazing, the Leftys are prepared to strengthen a group of radicals for their own near term gains. In the long run...they will cut all of our throats.

[knarf]

Whew!

[swilhelm73]

Well overall he makes some good points;

Instead, Islamist versions of totalitarianism are spreading with remarkable rapidity, confident that they will in short order triumph over the decadent West.

just isn't backed up by fact. The Islamists have had one success since 9/11 - namely Spain. While they have forced the cowardly Spanish to leave the fight, that has to be balanced against losing Afghanistan as their primary base of operation, losing Iraq as a source of funding and potentially WMDs, and frankly facing annhiliation - and oh yes the almost certain death of their charismatic leader Osama.

While there should remain the worry the left will succeed in its goal to use the terrorists for domestic political gain, so far it is really only a worry as Bush and co have outplayed them to this point.

[Restorer]

Agreed. The true example of underestimating the enemy is being provided by the Islamists. They don't seem to realize that their only real ally is the internal division of the West and particularly America. You don't win wars if your victory is totally dependent on the enemy not really fighting back.

One true "success" on their part, probably more devastating than 9/11, will not herald their victory.

It will only be the prelude to Americans closing ranks against and destroying them.

[RussianConservative]

Well, they have success of France and Germany too. They have success of more US pressure on India and Success of even more of US support/defense of Saudies and they have success of exterminating all remaining Christian of Kosovo with US/NATO support and success of tearing Makedonia in half and still success of war of exterminating in Sudan and success of seizing north half of Nigeria and success of getting rid of socialist dictator of Iraq so fanaticism rise higher.

Before they have success of 73 invasion of Cyprus and mass extermination. Mass extermination of Christian in Lebanon and success of having PLO saved by US from Israel. They have success of Bosnia, Yugoslavia (Kosovo), they still have success of mass exterminations of Christian in Indonesia...overall they do not do so bad.

While US/Britian/Italy/Poland/Bulgaria fight on front of Afghanistan and Iraq and Israel fight on front of Palistine and Russia on front of Checnya, Uzbekistan, Tazikistan, Turkmanistan, they fight on front of:

Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, Sudan, Eritria, Nigeria, France, Britian, Spain, Germany, Russia (Chechnya), Uzbekistan, India, Afghanistan, Phillipines, Indonesia, and Makedonia amongst just some. Over all they strike where others weak and there they win and if win enough they turn that to snowballing effect of avalanche.

[MNJohnnie]

One true "success" on their part, probably more devastating than 9/11, will not herald their victory.

It will only be the prelude to Americans closing ranks against and destroying them

One of the things I keep posting on pro-Terrorists websites.

Islamic Terrorists need to keep in mind, America has stretched forth a bare fraction of her strength to date. The world should keep in mind just what an enraged American COULD, and WOULD, do in the event of another 9-11 style strike. The Whabbists are sowing the wind for Islam, Islam might take heed least it reap the whirlwind.

[Restorer]

We are constantly told that we do not understand the Muslim culture. Perhaps it is more relevant that they do not understand ours.

In most Muslim cultures, the man without power is a figure of contempt. The only man held in greater contempt is the man who has power but is unwilling to use it. Thus they constantly see American restraint not as strenght but as weakness.

They will be sorely disabused. Unfortunately, I believe it will not happen until after we have lost one or more cities.

But then it won't take very long.

[an amused spectator]

And then there's my all-time favorite:

Moon-Rock Cult Beaten By Misunderestimated Foe

[MNJohnnie]

Yes, instead of spending so much time bitching at Bush about his "unilateralist" foreign policy, perhaps the Internatinonalist Left, should be praising his restraint. Given the polling data, the American people, by a 57% margin, want a TOUGHER response to terrorism then Bush is giving them.

[skinkinthegrass]

The world should keep in mind...of another 9-11 style strike. The Whabbists are sowing the wind for Islam, Islam might take heed least it reap the whirlwind.

Agree, the Militant Whabbists SHALL rue the day, they attacked American on 9/11...Islam must take heed, lest it reap the whirlwind.

[swilhelm73]

I disagree strongly.

Chiraq was bought and paid for long ago. He's been a servant of Saddam for over two decades - google Osirak.

Shroeder has been an enemy of the US since the 60s when he was marching for the Soviets.

And both of these men came to power before 9/11.

So again, all the Islamists are left with is Spain.

Let's face it, even though we are using but a fraction of our strength we are winning - and overwhelmingly so.

Now, this doesn't mean the Leftist/Islamist alliance can't win, and as such I think the original author's point remains largely valid. Further, it should be stressed we cannot be defeated militarily, only if the aforementioned alliance can force a collective loss of will within the US and our allies.

[an amused spectator]

And maybe they are right. When we use trivial issues to undermine our leaders in the midst of war, when we attack them not merely for their failures, but even for their successes, when we aid and abet a terrorist enemy whose only real hope is to see us discouraged enough to throw away our victories, we may indeed find ourselves beaten by a foe that far too many of us still underestimate.

This is an excellent point, and there is an even troubling thought that has occurred to me:

In the event of a Kerry victory, could you in good conscience advise your children to enlist in a miltary which will surely be betrayed by the American Left, scorned and used as dogs by the Kerrys and Hillarys of America?

[Light Speed]

A history ref for those reading along this thread.

THE MONGOLS AND THE MAMLUKS:

In the thirteenth century still another threat to the Muslim world appeared in the land beyond the Oxus: the Mongols. Led by Genghis Khan, a confederation of nomadic tribes which had already conquered China now attacked the Muslims. In 1220 they took Samarkand and Bukhara. By mid-century they had taken Russia, Central Europe, northern Iran, and the Caucuses, and in 1258, under Hulagu Khan, they invaded Baghdad and put an end to the remnants of the once-glorious 'Abbasid Empire. The ancient systems of irrigation were destroyed and the devastation was so extensive that agricultural recovery, even in the twentieth century, is still incomplete. Because a minor scion of the dynasty took refuge with the Mamluks in Egypt, the 'Abbasid caliphate continued in name into the sixteenth century. In effect, however, it expired with the Mongols and the capture of Baghdad. From Iraq the Mongols pressed forward into Syria and then toward Egypt where, for the first time, they faced adversaries who refused to quail before their vaunted power. These were the Mamluks, soldier-slaves from the Turkish steppe area north of the Black and Caspian Seas with a later infusion of Circassians from the region of the Caucuses Mountains.

The Mamluks had been recruited by the Ayyubids and then, like the Turkish mercenaries of the 'Abbasid caliphs, had usurped power from their enfeebled masters. Unlike their predecessors, however, they were able to maintain their power, and they retained control of Egypt until the Ottoman conquest in 1517. Militarily formidable, they were also the first power to defeat the Mongols in open combat when, in 1260, the Mongols moved against Palestine and Egypt. Alerted by a chain of signal fires stretching from Iraq to Egypt, the Mamluks were able to marshal their forces in time to meet, and crush, the Mongols at 'Ayn Jalut near Nazareth in Palestine.

Islams strength lays in its oil posessions
Here they can destabilize the entire world if they so will.
Unless nukes are used..and more specifically *Neutronics which destroy living matter and do not destabilize inert ,except in event horizon,
their population numerics..logistic strength and sizable theatre missile systems could cause great losses to an approaching army and navy..even a confederacy.

Yet..they would loose.
The reality of extortion ..ie oil is their trump card.

anyones guess if this crisis with Islam collapses into a confederacy vs confederacy reality.

Nostradamus forwards this ident....time will tell if he has truly seen the future.

[reluctantwarrior]

This is a lucid and concise tale of the Muhammadans relentless march against Christendom, we ignore it at our peril. Strength and Honor....let us fight now so our children will not have to.....

[Indie]

Great deduction and a good point.

[Carry_Okie]

[epigone73]

Not just against christianity, boychik!

These idol=worshipping satanic death-cultists want to kill everybody who doesn't subscribe to their bizarre blasphemies.

trust me, we have to get back the old crusader spirit: song of roland, etc.

And this is one little hebe in the heart of texas saying this.
why are christians so silent?

[okie01]

To me, the most interesting aspect of Prof. Marmorstein's column is that, by analogy, he effectively takes Bush's detractors to task for their divisiveness in the face of the enemy.

And that the Aberdeen American-News, Li'l Tommy Daschle's hometown newspaper, chose to publish it.

The message is rather pointed...

[Cronos]

just isn't backed up by fact. The Islamists have had one success since 9/11 - namely Spain. While they have forced the cowardly Spanish to leave the fight, that has to be balanced against losing Afghanistan as their primary base of operation, losing Iraq as a source of funding and potentially WMDs, and frankly facing annhiliation - and oh yes the almost certain death of their charismatic leader Osama.

Not quite correct -- theIslamists primary base of operations has moved across the border toPakistan, and their primary source of funding -- Saudi A is untouched and still pumping billions to them (mostly American money from our buying of their oil).