Tuscan 'Excalibur' Mystery To Be Unearthed

Discovery ^ | 3-1-2004 | Rossella Lorenzi

[blam]

Tuscan 'Excalibur' Mystery to be Unearthed

By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News

The Sword in The Stone

March 1, 2004 — Archaeological digging might soon unveil the mystery surrounding a sword buried in a Gothic abbey in Tuscany, Italian researchers announced.

Known as the "sword in the stone," the Tuscan "Excalibur" is said to have been plunged into a rock in 1180 by Galgano Guidotti, a medieval knight who renounced war and worldly goods to become a hermit.

Built in Galgano's memory, the evocative Gothic abbey at Montesiepi, near the city of Siena, still preserves the sword in a little chapel. Only the hilt and a few centimeters of the blade protrude from the rock in the shape of a Cross.

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"The sword has been considered a fake for many years, but our metal dating research in 2001 has indicated it has medieval origins. The composition of the metal doesn't show the use of modern alloys, and the style is compatible with that one of a 12th century sword," Luigi Garlaschelli, a research scientist at University of Pavia, told Discovery News.

By the summer, Garlaschelli hopes to excavate the area around the stone, in search of the knight's body. Indeed, ground penetrating radar analysis revealed the presence of a 6 1/2-foot by 3-foot room beneath the sword.

"It could well be Galgano's tomb, [sought] for about 800 years," Garlaschelli said.

The figure of Galgano Guidotti, who is said to have be born in 1148 in Chiusdino, near Siena, is shrouded in mystery and legend. Evidence of his historical identity has never been found and no records exist in documents from his time.

Galgano Guidotti was said to have been an arrogant and lustful knight who isolated himself in a cave and became a hermit after seeing a vision of the Archangel Michael.

Legend has it that, Galgano was lured out by his mother who convinced him to meet with his former beautiful fiancée; on the way to her house, Galgano was thrown by his horse while passing Montesiepi, a hill near Chiusdino. There, another vision told him to renounce material things. Galgano objected that it would be as difficult as splitting a rock with a sword. To prove his point, he struck a stone with his sword. Instead of breaking, the sword slid like butter into the rock. Galgano once again became a recluse, isolating himself by the sword's side. There he remained until he died in 1181.

Garlaschelli admitted that the excavation would not unveil another mystery over the sword: the one of the Tuscan "Excalibur" predating the legend of King Arthur.

If the sword really dates to 1180, decades before the first literary reference to the "sword in the stone," it would support the theory that the Celtic myth of King Arthur and his sword Excalibur developed in Italy after the death of Galgano.

"Further evidence may lie underneath the rock, but the Arthurian link is almost impossible to prove. It will remain one of the many mysteries that surround St. Galgano. More multidisciplinary studies are needed to understand what the hill of Montesiepi hides. Meanwhile, we are all anxious to see what results this excavation will bring," Maurizio Cali, president of the "Project Galgano" association, told Discovery News.

[Swordmaker]

Maybe this will help to free the sword-- "Annul nathrac, uthvar spethud, dochial dienve!"

But if you try the "spell of making" do you have to wear that really cool shiny skull cap???

[Wombat101]

Okay, ran through my bookcases for ya and came up with the following:

Norma L. Goorich: The Holy Grail
King Arthur
Merlin
Geoffrey Ashe: The Discovery of King Arthur
Bromwich/Jarman/Roberts:
Arthur of the Welsh
Ifor Williams: Lectures on Early Welsh Poetry
P.K. Ford: The Mabinogi
J. Morris: Nennius: British History and the Welsh
Annals
Geofrrey of Monmouth:
History of the Kings of Britain
Bromwich/Evans: Cullwch and Olwen, A Study of the Earliest
Arthurian Tales
PFJ Turner: The Real King Arthur, Post Roman Brittania

And just for fun:
Bernard Cornwell: The WInter King
Excalibur
Enemy of God

As you can see, I've always been pretty much obsessed by this subject...lol

[Wombat101]

Okay, ran through my bookcases for ya and came up with the following:

Norma L. Goorich: The Holy Grail
King Arthur
Merlin
Geoffrey Ashe: The Discovery of King Arthur
Bromwich/Jarman/Roberts:
Arthur of the Welsh
Ifor Williams: Lectures on Early Welsh Poetry
P.K. Ford: The Mabinogi
J. Morris: Nennius: British History and the Welsh
Annals
Geofrrey of Monmouth:
History of the Kings of Britain
Bromwich/Evans: Cullwch and Olwen, A Study of the Earliest
Arthurian Tales
PFJ Turner: The Real King Arthur, Post Roman Brittania

And just for fun:
Bernard Cornwell: The WInter King
Excalibur
Enemy of God

As you can see, I've always been pretty much obsessed by this subject...lol

[Wombat101]

As for Robin Hood, I haven't actually gone as far as to research it. The only I can tell you for sure is that Maid Marian is an invention, and is based upon a tale told in the Low-Countries about a farm girl who gets sweet talked into going to the big city. She narrowly avoids rape, and manages to get home, where she never leaves her farm again.

Sometime during the 11th-13th century when the tale of Robin Hood was being told, it was apparently decided that Robin needed a love interest, up sprang Maid Marian in different guise. I can honetsly tell you that I forget just where I heard/read that.

[Wombat101]

Oh, almost forgot, you might want to check out the Comelot Project at the University of Rochester:

www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/cphome/stm

[Henchman]

"Galgano Guidotti was said to have been an arrogant and lustful knight who isolated himself in a cave and became a hermit after seeing a vision of the Archangel Michael. " ...man, did he ever eat a bad 'shroom!

[blam]

Some believe the Archangel Michael was a comet or comet fragment.

[TheWriterInTexas]

The tales of chivalry embodied in King Arthur's legend were part of the courtly love poems regaled through France in the 12th century and promoted by the troubadours. Maria de France, of "Le Fresne," and Marie de Pisan of "The City of Ladies" did quite a bit to perpetuate these myths. However, the belief in Arthur and his Knights was solidified in Briton before being promoted by the troubadours throughout Europe.

The last documented date I could find on Excalibur was a brief mention that on March 7, 1193, King Richard reportedly gifted the sword to King Tacred of Lecce. This was part of a peace negotiation between the two Kings. Tancred had kidnapped Richard's sister, Joanna, when her husband died and Tancred assumed the throne.

This rumor actually caused a major uproar amongst the lesser classes, who had heard of the legends and myths (born anew through the courtly love poets).

Please note, the controversy was unnecessary. The gift was part of a dowry that would to go Lecce's daughter, who was betrothed to Richard's 4-year old nephew, Arthur of Brittany. Since Richard didn't have any children at the time of negotiations, he planned to make Arthur his heir and the dowry would be returned to Briton at the time of their marriage.

In short, it was supposed to be a "temporary gift."

However, King Tancred died in 1194, and his son, William III, was dethroned by Henry VI von Hohenstaufen of Germany. Whether the sword actually made it there, no one knows.

[Itzlzha]

Maybe this will help to free the sword-- "Annul nathrac, uthvar spethud, dochial dienve!"

No....you just mis-pronouinced the "Charm of Making"...now the "Deadites" will be coming!!!

The correct spelling/pronounciation is... "Annul nathrac, uthvaS Bethud, dochiEl dienve!"

[AnalogReigns]

"["If the sword really dates to 1180, decades before the first literary reference to the "sword in the stone," it would support the theory that the Celtic myth of King Arthur and his sword Excalibur developed in Italy after the death of Galgano."]

["Hmm..Let's see, "King" Arthur, according to what little is known of him, appears to have lived in the 5th century AD, and been Welsh, and here we have a sword that has been dated to the 12th century, embedding in a rock in Italy."]"

This is very simple guys: Though Arthur may well have lived in the 5th (though I think its the 6th) Century, WRITTEN REFERENCES and/or LEGENDS of Arthur only date back to AFTER this Italian sword legend is supposed to have occured. Therefore the legend of Arthur and the stone, may have in fact come from this (actual) sword in the stone. This doesn't make King Arthur necessarily a myth, just the story of the sword in the stone with him--got it???

Pretty cool though, that there's a real sword in a stone...

[Just mythoughts]

"This is very simple guys: Though Arthur may well have lived in the 5th (though I think its the 6th) Century, WRITTEN REFERENCES and/or LEGENDS of Arthur only date back to AFTER this Italian sword legend is supposed to have occured. Therefore the legend of Arthur and the stone, may have in fact come from this (actual) sword in the stone. This doesn't make King Arthur necessarily a myth, just the story of the sword in the stone with him--got it??? "

Yes indeed, finding a "sword in the stone"! The size of this sword is what sent my mind back to little David and that Giant.

Thanks

[Wombat101]

Fantastic! Thank you!

[Wombat101]

Guess again...Written references to Arthur are being made in the 4th-5th century. Therefore, the Arthurian legend predates the sword in the stone (at least this ONE) by 6-700 years, NOT the other way around...

[Wombat101]

Whoops! Just realized a major flaw in my thinking. I've just realised that the 4th century would be the years between 301 and 400, NOT 401 and 500. Therefore, your assertion that nothing historical exists relating to Arthur priot to the 5th or 6th century is correct. Tell me I don't feel like an ass? Guess my BA in Western Civ should be revoked!

However, this still does not detract from my original point that the myth/legend of Arthur predates the Italian sword int he stone thingy by quite a number of years.

Still, I'm embarrased and showing my backside, and I apologize...

[norton]

Thanks!
This might take awhile.

[united1000]

Or maybe "Klatu, verata, necktie!"

LOL, What timing, I just watched that for the umpteenth time last night!

[Bernard Marx]

We're probably looking at signs of the latest hi-tech advances of the times.

That's a very interesting notion and it makes sense. The idea of an iron "sword" being "hidden" or "imprisoned" in stony iron ore is an elegant literary metaphor and is probably the best interpretation I've run into.

Could you expand on your idea that dragons represented chemical processes? Can you trace it to any source? I know salamanders were thought to possess alchemical powers but I've never run into anything about dragons in that context.

[ZULU]

No. Never read it. Will check it out, although I really prefer to read actual history.

There is little of it around from that period though.
(Sub-Roman Britain).

[Peter J. Huss]

Maybe this fellow could be of assistance:

[ZULU]

I guess you can pick and choose what you want to beleive based o certain limited parameters at this point.

Personally, I believe Arthur was a real person, that he was a Romano-Celtic Warlord who fought against the invading pagan Anglo-Saxons.

Can I prove it beyond any question of a doubt? No. But the smattering of evidence and what we know of the historical background certainly doesn't rule it out.

Its a lot harder to prove that someone never existed than to prove he did, not that that is easy.