Russian Interference Warning from 2015: Russia has Reached its Own Very Different 'End of History'

The Interpreter ^ | July 2015 | Irina Pavlova

[GoldenState_Rose]

Russia is now experiencing its own “end of history,” but it has turned out to be “not liberal democracy but a new turn back to the enslavement of Russian society, the consequences of which will be its further degradation with prospects that are dangerous both for the country itself and for the entire world.”

The West generally and the US in particular need to display both wisdom and political will to effectively oppose the political challenge the Kremlin now presents.

It has been an unwelcome surprise for Western publics how well the Kremlin and its ‘information forces’ have studied the weakness of Western leaders and how capably they are using this in their propaganda.”

Western analysts have not yet been up to this task because they are wedded to the idea that Russia was on the right path after 1991 until recently...

In fact, the Russian problem now has much deeper roots. “Few Western specialists on Russia are prepared to acknowledge that perestroika was a KGB-planned operation directed at seizing power with the goal of privatizing state property” or that “in August 1991 there was no liberal let alone a democratic revolution” but rather a carefully planned operation to “channel” mass enthusiasm in the direction the organs needed.

“Today, all real policies of the Kremlin are a collection of covert special operations,” she writes. In order to understand this,” one must do what Western specialists do not want to do: recognize the way in which what the Kremlin is doing is reproducing “the Stalinist mechanism of power.”

They are united in their goal of “fundamentally weakening the West and in the first instance the US, to extend the borders of their influence in the world, and to make Russia an assembly point for all the anti-Western forces of the world."

[GoldenState_Rose]

Vanity commentary from me:

The "list" released in Washington today highlights Russian operatives who have been at work in their meddling since 2014, before Trump announced his candidacy. Their goal was not to get a certain person elected, but to capitalize on vulnerabilities within our society and electoral process to stir what little chaos they can. Even our arguments between each other on this board are reflective of their goals...

If you choose to spend a meaningful amount of time in Russia, you will witness the circus-like nature of their "elections", the rampant fraud, ballot stuffing, and rigging -- just, the overall dysfunctional nature of their attempts at "democracy" in general. Under Putin especially, the country has failed to forge meaningful democratic and free economic institutions in the wake of the collapse of the USSR. It is instead a kleptocratic, oligarchy power-vertical.

Think Blue State/Red State divide is bad? Modern Russia has outright Islamic republic outposts like Chechnya within their own territory that they have to keep happy and stable lest there be civil war...again. and again.

The Kremlin-owned media distracts the Russian public from their own grievances with news of instability "elsewhere," which is why examples like "Occupy Wall Street" and "Black Lives Matter" and the refugee crisis in Europe gets ten times the amount of coverage on their news networks than their *own* very real social problems, their *own* insecurity over Muslims in their own land... (Ethnic Russia is in the midst of severe demographic crisis.)

Lest the Russian people protest and demand more from their leaders...

In 2014, we were vulnerable as a nation under Obama. And Putin, fresh off a hotly contested return to power: oversaw the nation as they aggressively doped their way through the Sochi Olympics, annexed Crimea and invaded East Ukraine and made preparations for Syria.

Yet even all those actions can’t hide nor make up for their lingering insecurities...so this is their outlet: sabotage stronger countries they envy and resent however they can. Because let's face it: a confident nation would be *friendly* to America. They'd be busy overseeing a booming economy, their own compelling nail biter free elections, hosting public debates about their Soviet legacy without censoring films about Stalin or sending Gulag archivists to the mental asylum...

They’d be building untouchable alliances with other successful (not rogue) countries etc...

But as the Trump's "MAGA" election attests to, our electoral system is alive and well. Outside the beltway candidates CAN win, miracles CAN happen, and "forgotten people" in states as remote as Iowa and West Virginia do get a say.

And this is bad for leaders like Putin, because it emboldens people in countries like his to pursue the same freedoms and demand the same realities of their own governments.

~ GS_R

[GoldenState_Rose]

*PING*

[Ancesthntr]

In fact, the Russian problem now has much deeper roots. “Few Western specialists on Russia are prepared to acknowledge that perestroika was a KGB-planned operation directed at seizing power with the goal of privatizing state property” or that “in August 1991 there was no liberal let alone a democratic revolution” but rather a carefully planned operation to “channel” mass enthusiasm in the direction the organs needed.

---

One of my father’s Russian 1st cousins got out in 1994. As I got to know him, I asked him what it was like to live without the Communism that he had known since his birth. His response: Same wall, different wallpaper. IOW, nothing changed except the faces of the people in charge, and the lies that they told. Those “Western specialists” could have used about 10 minutes with my relative.

---

“They are united in their goal of “fundamentally weakening the West and in the first instance the US, to extend the borders of their influence in the world, and to make Russia an assembly point for all the anti-Western forces of the world.”

Their economy is the size of New York State’s - good luck with that, we’ll spend them into bankruptcy...again.

[BobL]

“Even our arguments between each other on this board are reflective of their (Russia’s) goals...”

Is it really necessary to shit on those who may disagree with you?

[piasa]

There are definite Russian trolls here, this site is not immune.

[BobL]

You have proof, I guess.

[GoldenState_Rose]

BobL, I don’t think that statement above was mean-spirited, but now you’re proving its point:

You have more anger directed towards ME: a fellow conservative American who has spent extensive time living and studying Putin’s Russia —> instead of towards the corrupt Russian operatives making business deals with the likes of HillaryClinton - or the ones implicated for staging anti-Trump rally parties and Black Lives Matter protests?

Why am *I* the enemy?

[GoldenState_Rose]

And the things I’ve listed aren’t even the worst of their crimes or the lengths being reached - with Putin’s goals ultimately coming to a head to face outright military war confrontation with the U.S. (Which make no mistake, is as much HIS own doing than any “Neocon” attempts on our side.)

[BeadCounter]

If that is all it was, you have a good point but a lot of this smacks of spamming and propagandizing the conversation, repeating what is in Russian state and other media, disproved allegations. I don’t agree with that.

[BobL]

You’re ‘the enemy’ because you choose to shit on fellow FReepers, rather than respect a difference of opinion.

I have over 30,000 postings here, of which no more than 2% have ANYTHING to do with Russia. If you think that I’m some kind of Russian-controlled ‘bot’, which you’ve alluded to in the past, I get a bit pissed about that, as I doubt that many Russian bots or ‘trolls’, as you call us, will spend 98% plus of our time posting about stuff that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Russia.

How about we try RESPECTING each other’s opinions - for once, and get rid of the snipes?

[Grampa Dave]

How much meddling in our elections comes from Mexico and other South of our border countries?

On a July 2017 program, Morning Joe, Joe Scarborough stared into the camera and invited people to contact him if they’re aware of a presidential campaign that accepted “oppo research or support” from a foreign power.

Hey, Mika/Joe how about Mexico interfering with every US election since LBJ was president with donations, bribes and millions of Illegal voters?

Carlos Slim* owns a large share of the NY Slimes and ensures that the Slimes has had daily hit pieces on Candidate and President Trump for close to two years!

What Country provided at least 90% of the illegal voters in 2016. It wasn’t Russia/Russia!

Mexico has been interfering with our elections since LBJ was president. It wasn’t the evil Russians interfering with our elections. It has been and is the evil and elite white rulers of the Mexican Government and their illegals sent here forced to come here by the elite Mexican Rulers.

Last year, hundreds of illegal aliens and other sanctuary city advocates filled the Texas House gallery to protest a bill that will protect Texans from criminal illegal aliens.

During that protest some illegal aliens held signs saying ‘I am illegal and here to stay.’ Texas Republican Representative Matt Rinaldi then decided to call ICE on the self described illegals.

The Russia/Russia bs was and still is, just a rat and rino distraction from the real meddlers and real interfering evil scum of our elections. The Mexican Government, their illegals here, the rat politicians, and our Rino’s, who want them for their cheap labor and votes. These scumbags are the real meddlers in our election, not Russia!

Illegals and their liberal supporters threatening Texas legislators for daring to uphold our laws re immigration in the Gallery @ the Texas Legislature Building.

How many millions of $’s/Pesos has Mexico donated to the democrats to keep their illegals in America, since LBJ?

How much Mexican money did Obama and Clinton receive personally and for their elections?

How many illegal Mexicans voted for Illiarily in the 2016 election and for Obama's two terms?

How many illegal Mexicans voted for rats to control our cities, counties, states and of course at our federal level in 2016?

How many Hispanic tv channels like Univision, do we have on Comcast, Direct TV, Dish TV and other tv providers, that we pay for, and we don’t speak Spanish? Who owns those Spanish only channels? Why do we have to pay for Spanish TV channels/stations, when we don’t speak Spanish? Didn't these Hispanic channels/stations support Clinton in 2016?

Again: Who owns a large % of the NY Slimes and other US election meddling companies?

It is past time for our Congress to stop the Mexican meddling/interference/hacking at every level in America.

How many millions of $’s has Mexico donated to the democrats to keep their illegals here, at every level, city, county, state and Federal level?

Again, the Russia/Russia bs was just a rat and rino distraction from the real meddlers and real interfering evil scum of our elections, the elite rulers of Mexico and their illegals in America.

ATTENTION RUSSIAN AGENTS AND SPIES! If you wish to collude with candidate Trump, take a number and be seated.

The Mexican Government, their illegals here, the rat politicians controlled by them, and our Rino’s, who want them for their cheap labor and votes, are the real meddlers in our elections, not Russia!

It is time to enforce our standing laws against illegal Mexican immigration and Mexican illegals voting!

*Carlos Slim Helú (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈkaɾlos esˈlim eˈlu]; born January 28, 1940) is a Mexican business magnate, investor, and philanthropist. From 2010 to 2013, Slim was ranked as the richest person in the world.

[BobL]

It’s not an easy call to make, I’ll concede that. But it would be wise to look at the posting history of me, for example, who only occasionally talks about Russia, with others here, who seem OBSESSED with what they perceive is going one there.

It tells a lot.

[Mariner]

“There are definite Russian trolls here, this site is not immune.”

Name one.

And cite an example of why this person is a Russian Troll.

I contend you cannot.

[GoldenState_Rose]

Got it. I see: well, yes I have referred to people touting pro-Putin narratives here as Putinbots and Russiabots, but they are to be distinguished from ACTUAL online trolls based out of Russia. (And no I am not implying that everyone posting from Russia is a troll - otherwise I would fall in that category at some point.)

Sorry I didn’t just make my points without calling you a name.

[Mariner]

“You’re ‘the enemy’ because you choose to shit on fellow FReepers, rather than respect a difference of opinion.”

I agree with Bob.

Rose is here to sow discord.

Anyone who does not believe Russia is an agent of Satan his own self is disparaged as a Putinista, a bot or an Useful Idiot.

We must be under the control of the Kremlin p\ropaganda if we disagree with her.

Bob, you are not the first one to call this out. Be sure to ping me on further examples.

[GoldenState_Rose]

Agreed. The threats from both places (Russia and Mexico) are not mutually exclusive. Putin and Nieto... have a good relationship going no less. A lot of world leaders are united in their resentment of our beautiful America. Throw China into the mix too. (China involves themselves in U.S. affairs in different ways.)

[BeadCounter]

If the same spamming or other messages, (ISIS delivering oil to Turkey which our own CIA apologized for saying) are repeated time and again, on every thread, yeah, that seems like trolling. Yes, I can name names, easy. I do not see how that will contribute to the conversation.

Sometimes, things will be repeated but I don’t know about a need to repeat the same in every single thread, yes, that seems like trolling and spamming.

[BeadCounter]

I think Rose is doing a commendable job in addressing these issues, it’s more like some are trying to shame her into not posting stories.

[GoldenState_Rose]

Dear BobL,

I have a deep passion for Russia, you can call it obsession. Fair.

So yes, I do tend to post on Russia-related matters. I especially like to focus on whats happening *inside* the country as that seems to be the elephant in the room with all the distracting talk about U.S. collusion conspiracies and whatnot.

What’s going on inside Russia affects its behavior towards the outside world. And a lot of people have a very false impression of the place. It’s lovely place, but it’s not some sort of racially homogeneous, homosexual-free, Christian utopian outpost where daddy Putin cares for and is beloved by all as the army sets out to save the world from Islamic terrorists. Far from it.

There are leaders in the GOP, who are staunchly pro-Trump like Arkansas Senator Tom Cotton, who recently released a statement saying: “Vladimir Putin has once again thrown Alexei Navalny in jail because he is afraid of his own people - and what they would do if they were free. Every time he imprisons an opposition leader, it only shows the world just how corrupt and oppressive his regime truly is.”

Cotton and others like him unanimously agreed to imposing greater sanctions on Russia for interfering in American political process. And so my “preoccupation” with the threat Putin’s Russia poses is not solo by any means, but shared by true conservatives I appreciate and respect.

We are in proxy military war with Russia at this point...And this was the natural outcome of Trump’s election because he is not about to let Putin rule the Middle East with Iran and cohort - even if we had some initial goals like defeating ISIS in common.

So the situation is even graver, and far more life and death at this point than dealing with a few pesky online trolls.

[BeadCounter]

Furthermore, I am sorry... but the Russian media, that seems revered here by some or other sources, posts some ugly things on America. There is some video clip from a video game in fact, they say “Look, this shows, the USA is helping ISIS” and that would be agreed with by some here. So, yes, definitely, I agree, a lot of untruths are tossed out here.

“Yelena shows reporters a video sent to her by the wife of another Russian mercenary reportedly killed in Deir al-Zor on February 7. She’s convinced it shows the U.S. air strikes that hit her husband’s convoy.

However, closer inspection suggests it is from a 2015 promotional for a video game called AC-130 Gunship Simulator: Special Op Squadron.

The video pops up on YouTube from time to time as genuine combat footage and even the Russian Defense Ministry passed it off in November 2017 as “irrefutable evidence” of alleged U.S. help for extremist Islamic State militants in Syria.”

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-syria-mercenaries-killed-widow-says-thrown-into-battle-like-pigs/29039898.html