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Attn: FReeper Shooters - Help me buy or build a tactical shotgun (Vanity)
January 27, 2013 | ConservativeInPA

Posted on 01/27/2013 7:05:07 PM PST by ConservativeInPA

I have been surfing the web looking at tactical shotguns. I really don't care for the term "tactical", but what I am looking for is certainly not a bird gun.

Here are my requirements:

1. Barrel Type: A breacher barrel. Does anyone have experience with a breacher choke tube? Do they work? How much to they extend the length of the gun?
2. Barrel Length: Shorter is better to me as maneuverability is important.
3. Stock/Overall gun length: What are the pro/cons of pistol grip, traditional stock and folding stock? I want something very sturdy, as a primary requirement is the ability to breach.
4. Action: Pump or Semi-Auto. I do not have much a preference as I own both types of shotguns. However, a semi-auto may have the ability to have detachable magazines like a Saiga. Or the possibility of a drum magazine for other semi-auto.
5. Detachable/Drum magazines: If the answer to #4 is semi-auto, is there an advantage to a detachable or drum magazine? How durable are they? Can you get them for 3-inch shot shells? Are they reliable?
6. Accessories: My general thoughts on this is pretty simple so far - maybe a mounted mag light of some sort and something for extra ammo. If there are any other ideas, let me know.
7. I may build/mod using an existing shotgun. This is a financial thing, in which I purchase today what may be banned parts in the future and later use to parts when I build on a completely legitimate/legal shotgun.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Hobbies; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: 12ga; banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment; shotgun; tacticalshotgun
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Thanks in advance. I figure that this would be at least an interesting conversation and in the process it will narrow some of my research time.
1 posted on 01/27/2013 7:05:15 PM PST by ConservativeInPA
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To: ConservativeInPA

I recommend something in the Mossberg 500 line- you can dress them up to be tacticool with enough attachments that you cannot lift it, and at a fairly reasonable price. That being said, I like plain old wood- because if you have no ammo, you need a club.


2 posted on 01/27/2013 7:12:21 PM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

There are no 3” drums out there. 2.75” only.


3 posted on 01/27/2013 7:13:49 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Mossberg 590A1 pump 9 round (2 3/4 shells), add a Vortex Defense rail system, EOTech M6X-000-A2 M6X-G LED light/laser system, and any other stuff! You can drop the stock for an even shorter CQB use.


4 posted on 01/27/2013 7:14:16 PM PST by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

MDARMS drums are tough as nails


5 posted on 01/27/2013 7:15:29 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Saiga 12.. I wish I had one.


6 posted on 01/27/2013 7:16:32 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Got me one of these Friday for less than $500.
I put a light on the rail, and call it my strobin' chainsaw.
7 posted on 01/27/2013 7:18:48 PM PST by RandallFlagg
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To: SgtHooper

ditto


8 posted on 01/27/2013 7:19:11 PM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
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To: ConservativeInPA

MKA 1919


9 posted on 01/27/2013 7:21:08 PM PST by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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enuf with the ‘tactical’ crap. every military wannabe uses this term including every police dept from east coast to west coast.


10 posted on 01/27/2013 7:22:26 PM PST by AlmaKing
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To: ConservativeInPA
loose lips sink ships!
11 posted on 01/27/2013 7:24:39 PM PST by paratrooper82 (82nd ABN Div. 1/508th BN "Fury From the Sky")
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To: ConservativeInPA

Start with this...

http://www.mossberg.com/node/2648


12 posted on 01/27/2013 7:26:54 PM PST by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: sauropod

.


13 posted on 01/27/2013 7:27:24 PM PST by sauropod (I will not comply)
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To: ConservativeInPA
If the primary requirement is to breach, I would go with a Mossberg 500 Cruiser. It is an 8 shot with a pistol grip and the breacher on the end. The overall gun is pretty short and ergo good for moving within structures/urban areas.

For about $50, you can later add a top folding stock to it if you wish. This will give you the versatility of a short shottie for breaches and Close Quarters Battle, but you can fold out the stock for situations with greater stand off..

I have the Mossberg 500 Rolling Thunder; I had the basic 500 without the breacher on the end, but I lost it in the divorce (yes, I know that's pretty redneck when your divorce settlement hinges on a shotgun and hogs, but it did).

They've got a pretty one with the Blackwater logo for $425

I don't have any experience with the Saiga 12 etc, but I have heard that they sometimes have feeding issues; my ex-BIL did with his and this is a common theme I have heard.

And a Mossy can be had for about 1/2 what a Saiga can.....probably even less than 1/2 after the prices skyrocketed.

Another benefit is the recoil isn't overly noticeable with the 500 and 2 3/4" shells. My buddies and I skeet shoot with them and compete against each other. One of our coworker's ex-wife is about 95 lbs with a brick in her pocket and had no problem blasting clay birds with it.

14 posted on 01/27/2013 7:30:00 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: GenXteacher
I like plain old wood- because if you have no ammo, you need a club.

I like plain old wood because if you ever do have to use the gun, it looks more like grampa's shotgun to a jury, and less like something that would cause Chuck Schumer to sh!t himself.

15 posted on 01/27/2013 7:32:29 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Saiga 12 or Vepr 12 - Either one will work.


16 posted on 01/27/2013 7:35:17 PM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: SVTCobra03
MKA 1919

Pretty slick. I just checked out a video from the 2012 SHOT show. It doesn't look like a breach gun though. I have AR's. I have semi-auto shot guns. I am looking for something a little more up close and personal ... like breaking down my daughters bedroom door after she and her boyfriend lock the door and having enough left over to put the boy down (just an example, he won't make it up the stairs).

17 posted on 01/27/2013 7:35:51 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: GenXteacher
I recommend something in the Mossberg 500 lineI've been looking at them. They are at the top of the list. Anyone want to talk me out of it?
18 posted on 01/27/2013 7:37:58 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: paratrooper82
loose lips sink ships!

It really is amazing how many here don't get that.

It's even warned against before you post, mercy.....

19 posted on 01/27/2013 7:38:19 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron (Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism)
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To: mylife

That is what I have noticed. The most difficult part of doing a build like this is not knowing what you don’t know, e.g., like there is a 3” drum out there and you haven’t found it yet.


20 posted on 01/27/2013 7:40:16 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: Hardastarboard

A valid thought, if you live in one of those states where you get prosecuted for self defense. Not no so much here.... :)


21 posted on 01/27/2013 7:40:49 PM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I’ll talk you INTO it further......We had a couple of the Remington’s with us in Fallujah Nov ‘04; I wish we had the Mossberg 500s with the pistol grip, which is why I added them to my personal collection.


22 posted on 01/27/2013 7:41:38 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: SgtHooper
EOTech M6X-000-A2 M6X-G LED light/laser system

How would that hold up after busting down a door? I must be cheap. I have black duct tape, excuse me, tactical duct tap, LOL. How about just taping a mag light to the gun?

23 posted on 01/27/2013 7:44:15 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Take a look at the Mesa Tactical LEO Telescoping Recoil Stock Kit (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=641809 - Order number: WX2-182687).

Reference:

http://www.mesatactical.com/index.php?id=55

http://www.gunworld.com/buyers-guides/taming-the-tiger-some-innovative-ways-reduce-12-gauge-recoil/



24 posted on 01/27/2013 7:44:31 PM PST by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Repeat Offender

I hear ya.. I’ve heard that the Italian-made Benelli Supernova is pricey but a slick piece.. Sounds like the Mossberg’s have more aftermarket goodie attachments though. I would recommend to any buyer to check out the scores of videos on YouTube, save to mention that they are fun to watch!


25 posted on 01/27/2013 7:45:46 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
Saiga 12.. I wish I had one.I am not much into Russian stuff as I am a big AR and not an AK guy, but a Saiga 12 has me thinking. It looks like a platform that you can do a lot of mods.
26 posted on 01/27/2013 7:46:47 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Here’s my take... I’m old school, and it works. Pre-WWII Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge. Holds 5+1 of #1 Buckshot (12 .30” pellets, a 2 3/4” 12 gauge #00 Buck is 9 .33” pellets... do the math...) and no dis-connector. What that means is that if I hold back the trigger and work the slide, it fires. No modern gun does that.


27 posted on 01/27/2013 7:48:22 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: RandallFlagg

What is the handle thing called? Is that all Mossberg product or from third parties?


28 posted on 01/27/2013 7:48:56 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Build your own. There are several tutorials on Youtube.

Example:

Making a shotgun step by step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDgHi_9_LX0


29 posted on 01/27/2013 7:51:37 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: GenXteacher

...That being said, I like plain old wood- because if you have no ammo, you need a club.....

Based on my personal experience, a wood stock on a 870 can break easily near the metal receiver when you butt stoke some&^% with it, it is hollowed/drilled out for a long bolt that starts at rear of stock behind the butt plate.

http://www.mcclellandgun.com/Gunsmithing/Gunsmithing/GunParts/Remington870Parts.html


30 posted on 01/27/2013 7:53:29 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
One of the things I like about the Mossberg with the pistol grip is it is easier to get a downward shot on a lock when doing a breach than a fixed stock shotgun. Also, if you have it slung, it is short enough that you can sling it out of the way and go to your primary [rifle] weapon before actually entering a room.

Or, if that is all you are packing, it is short enough for CQB/room clearing and getting into/out of vehicles.

And, as you said, they have a wealth of after market goodies available to them because of their popularity. When I picked up mine, one was $305 and the other was $290 and both came standard with the heat shield. Also, for situations like breaches/CQB you're less likely to get a jam or a feeding issue than with the semi-autos.

31 posted on 01/27/2013 7:55:01 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: GenXteacher

Agreed. We have a Mossberg 500 tactical and its a great weapon. You cannot go wrong with one.


32 posted on 01/27/2013 7:55:01 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Repeat Offender

Thanks. Good info. Saiga’s look pretty hot, but I wonder about Russian reliability. Mossberg is tried and proven. How do you think a folding stock would hold up to breaches, if you use the gun as a battering ram vs. just shooting at point blank range? I am new to this stuff, but my guess by looking at the barrel is the “compensator look” is to release gases when the muzzle is in direct contact with a hard surface, and not to redirect gases for semi-auto accuracy purposes.


33 posted on 01/27/2013 7:57:42 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: Hardastarboard

But I want Chucky to sh!t himself, and any liberal like him.


34 posted on 01/27/2013 7:59:17 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: Las Vegas Ron; paratrooper82
I am past that. Let them come.

I am exercising my 1A rights. I will back it up with my 2A rights.

35 posted on 01/27/2013 8:01:30 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I just pulled it out and looked all over for the make on that handle. Couldn’t find anything.
Then, I looked at the Mossberg site. It is a Mossberg product actually called, “500 Chainsaw.”
http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-chainsaw/50460


36 posted on 01/27/2013 8:05:45 PM PST by RandallFlagg
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To: ConservativeInPA

For your wants I would say a high end semi-auto with an 18 inch barrel and extended 7 round magazine. Also you would need interchangeable chokes.

Although it does not meet all your criteria a double barrel lupara has a lot of good features. First of all they are much shorter than an auto or pump with the same length barrel and you can still have a regular stock.

A hammerless one with ejectors would be best but even the old hammer models would do. If it has ejectors it can be reloaded pretty quickly and they are dead reliable. Of course having 8 shots available is a big advantage of the autos but after two shots you probably will not need another.


37 posted on 01/27/2013 8:09:54 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

2. Barrel Length: Shorter is better to me as maneuverability is important.
***Shortest barrel is 3”, the Taurus Judge revolver which can handle .410 shotgun shells, PDX-1 rounds or .45 rounds.

From another similar thread

The Judge is a pretty impressive and versatile self-defense handgun. It appears to be unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgnwO0o2ClQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM

5, 10, 15 feet with 000 buck, 4 pellets/ round
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrDMJvlL4M

Demo gave up on shotgun, went with Judge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3YYDgDUXs

female shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7by3UcLP-M

Also, isn’t the Judge the only handgun that allows washer rounds? Seems like a great compromise gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIuI3heYMQ


38 posted on 01/27/2013 8:10:35 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: ConservativeInPA
Don't use the gun as a battering ram. The spikes on the compensator are so you can jab the door and it will hold in place. There are specific rounds for doing breaches. The material is like a sand looking consistency, but it will go right through most household/office building locks.

You can use .OO buck, but you have to worry about ricochet. The plus side is depending on the quality of the door, you can penetrate with .OO....... there was a Marine I ran into at the hospital - they were clearing a hallway and the room doubled back. He reached for the knob to check it - the friendlies outside didn't realize he was on the other side - the way the room twisted, he didn't realize it come off the other hallway. He's missing the tips of some of his fingers from when the breacher fired the lock and his hand was on the other side.

So far as Russian reliability.....I don't know what it is about the Saiga, but they seem to have feeding issues unless you have had them worked on.

It must be an anomaly because I am a die hard AK fan. The little gas tube on my brand new M16A4 (I was the first one it was issued to) couldn't keep up with heavy intense fighting and clogged up and jammed - I had 2 malfunctions requiring remedial action within 5 minutes.......this while pinned down in the street and surrounded 360 degrees. I've put AKs through incredible abuse and they still fire. As an aside, we had guys slinging the M16s and picking up [dead] enemy AKs for the stopping power.

But, that's off topic. Truth be told, I intend to get a Saiga next as I already have a Mossberg. But if you are looking for a good versatile shotgun for breaching - I highly recommend the Mossberg, and also a breacher's kit - (hooligan tool and pry bar).

39 posted on 01/27/2013 8:10:49 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: ConservativeInPA
There are lots of brands out there. Many you pay a premium for a name. Some are inexpensive and working hard to make a name for themselves.

Based on good reviews and a really cheap price. I recently bought a used TriStar Arms shotgun that had a broken trigger guard. I called the company to order a new one and they said that it would be about twenty bucks for a new one. They also said that they would put it on for free and check out the shotgun for me. They said they like their products to be in top shape.

I sent it in. They got it on a Wednesday. I got a call that morning from them but missed it and they left a message. by the time I could call them back that afternoon, they had replaced the entire trigger group, replaced an "O" ring, test fired it and already had it on it's way back to me. NO CHARGE Top that Bennelli! It shoots great too. That is, it shot great, before it was lost in an unfortunate boating accident. Anyway that kind of service is noteworthy. Click here for a great value.
http://www.tristararms.com/tactical-shotguns.php

40 posted on 01/27/2013 8:14:44 PM PST by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I would suggest you start with the workhorse of shotguns the Mossberg 500.

Learn proper shooting technique and master it.

From there you can customize the thung with an adjustable stock and for grip.

I say start with this gun because everyman should learn to shoot a slide action and the maintenance is extremely easy.

Best of all, they are sold many places for $250-$280. It come with two barrels that allow one for home protection, while the other barrel is used for sport shooting, birding, small game and can even be used for large game.

It’s a terrific arm that is so versatile and at a price point anyone can afford.


41 posted on 01/27/2013 8:15:01 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I started with the 20” Mossberg 500, added an ATI pistol grip collapsible stock (get the angle adapter!). Found a rifled slug barrel for later. Have an ATI heat shield w/ghost-ring sights to add yet.

A breaching-style barrel can be obtained separately if the basic unit is more readily available and affordable.

the Roadblock barrel (looks like a 50cal front end) would be kinda cool, tho’...


42 posted on 01/27/2013 8:15:01 PM PST by castlebrew (Gun Control means hitting where you're aiming!))
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To: ConservativeInPA
As an FYI, when you breach with a shotgun, you want the barrel between the handle and door frame so you are aimed downward (at about 45 degrees) at the look bar. You also want to be angled slightly toward the frame as you are not shooting the handle, but the lock bar.

This makes it more likely that you will blow it out so the door is no longer held fast.

43 posted on 01/27/2013 8:16:08 PM PST by Repeat Offender (What good are conservative principles if we don't stand by them?)
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To: ConservativeInPA

“Anyone want to talk me out of it?”

why would we. Maximum reliable firepower for the dollar, rock solid design, nothing extra on the basic one and add-on’s galore if that is your thing. Pretty much the most lethality the buck and well build, too.


44 posted on 01/27/2013 8:19:28 PM PST by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, Deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

My local store had a video of one of an SRM 1216, here’s their site... Pretty utilitarian looking :-)

http://www.srmarms.com/


45 posted on 01/27/2013 8:20:52 PM PST by Axenolith (Government blows, and that which governs least, blows least...)
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To: ConservativeInPA

You really shouldn’t have that problem if you drink beer while cleaning yer guns, on the front porch a couple times a week...

LOL


46 posted on 01/27/2013 8:24:43 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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mark


47 posted on 01/27/2013 8:26:18 PM PST by clintonh8r (Happy to be represented by Lt. Col. Allen West)
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To: yarddog

I’ve moved to the double barrel side ... just finished putting rails on a side-by-side with rabbit ears (old west coach style gun). I also cut 2 inches off the stock and added a thick limbsaver butt with five round cuff. The holo sight I’m mounting to the upper picatinny will be sighted to go with the left barrel, which will be the range barrel for specialty (slugs) rounds. A green laser will mount to the end of the bottom rail, for when hip shooting to ‘repel boarders’ and a clip-on sling ring will finish the mods on the lower rail. Found some six round stripper quicks for 12 gauge, for faster reloading. Widener’s may still have a few of the shotties in stock.


48 posted on 01/27/2013 8:32:09 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Repeat Offender
Thanks, I FRmailed you and you posted what I was asking and more.

I have built my own gas-inpingment M4 clone (16" barrel including compensator, and wrong gas system, so not really an M4) and an M16A3 clone (no select fire). I haven't had any problems, but my shooting conditions are certainly not close to combat.

I reload my own M193 and M885 ammo in addition to some really low grain, fast sh!t for personnel armor penetration (those pesky varmints).

So I am curious, regardless if a weapon is an AK or an M10, is stopping power that different? Is it worthwhile to hump heavier ammo?

49 posted on 01/27/2013 8:34:06 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (Molon Labe)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I do not recommend a pump for one reason. It is easy to short shuck especially under stress.

They can be mechanically very reliable. When Winchester asked John Browning to design a lever action shotgun, Browning told them that a pump was a much better action. Winchester still wanted a lever action as that is what the company was known for.

Browning did as they asked and designed a lever action repeater. A few years later he patented a pump action then a couple of years after that, patented the model 1897, a true classic.

If you do choose a pump, try to shoot it a lot, preferably in a rural setting and make a habit of immediately shucking a new round as soon as you fire.

I remember my gun club had a Texas Ranger come back to put on a shooting contest. While he was there he did some shooting with a pump. He literally could fire an 870 to where it sounded like a machine gun and he was accurate too.

I have always had great reflexes and have done a lot of shooting but could not even approach his skill level. I believe he could fire that pump faster than I could an auto.


50 posted on 01/27/2013 8:35:52 PM PST by yarddog (One shot one miss.)
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