Posted on 02/07/2009 2:57:08 PM PST by WesternCulture
The US is like France.
A scattered nation that refuses to bow down to the concept of true national discipline, even when confronted with uttermost evil.
The European countries of today are no better.
But have a look at French and/or American history and you'll find out both France and USA have a great tradition of standing up, as one man, for the cause of independence - even though Vichy France cooperated with the Nazis and an American company like Standard Oil sold vast amounts of fuel to the Luftwaffe.
I'm Swedish and soldiers from my country recently have died in the War on Terror (in Afghanistan), so did Swedish soldiers under UN command in Kongo some decades ago and likewise in the heroic struggle for Finnish freedom when Finland confronted the expansionist dreams of Stalin in the wake of WWII.
Today, Stalin is a name that lives in shame in the civilized world while Finland, from many perspectives, is a freedom loving nation admired by many.
Did the Finns defeat Stalin by squabbling internally like little children?
Is there a point in arguing over what part of Western Civilization that ought to do more in the field of fighting terrorism?
Was Blix or GWB "right"?
Should we Westerners waste even more time arguing over such matters while terrorists, at this very moment, are planning attacks on innocent men, women and children in our parts of the world?
Or should we Europeans (to begin with) reflect, just a little, each day upon what America actually does for the cause of freedom and the other way around?
My Sweden hasn't fought a "real" war for 200 years, but this doesn't mean Swedish military traditions and military know-how is of no use to the free world at a time like this.
Sooner, they are inspirational.
Ask yourself:
Should America and Europe leave it to the UN to fight the WOT?
Or should all of us freedom lovers fight the good fight in a spirit like;
Gustavus Adolphus who crushed Catholicism once and for all on northern European soil in the 17th century
(see link below)
and
Charles XII who inflicted so much havoc on Russian soil that backward Russia still is a second rate European power?
(see link below)
These were great accomplishments by a "small" nation characterized by unity, discipline, concord and loyalty towards a common, noble idea.
Fighting spirit is something of great value, but it also matters in what spirit you fight.
Two military geniuses with a united people behind them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwKYqSyoopw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24gQKRF9aJ0
More accurately, he crushed in northern Europe those aspects of the Catholic faith that were imperialistic and inquisitional, allowing something that resembled a free market in religious ideas to survive. Catholicism was not wiped out by any means as a religion.
Chuck XII was a military tactical genius. Strategically and politically he was an idiot.
A lot of things explain Russian backwardness better than his attacks, which affected relatively small areas of the Russian homeland.
“Catholicism was not wiped out by any means as a religion.”
- Well, that really is a matter of how you define things.
Anyhow, as a POWER, we could perhaps agree it was wiped out.
Catholicism lost its grip over the trade patterns dominated by the Hansa. Emerging powers of Northern Europe, especially Prussia, gained immensely from this Swedish military aggression supported by Cardinal Richelieu of France.
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“small areas of the Russian homeland.”
- These areas were not “small” from the viewpoint of national economy.
Furthermore, the troops of Charles XII did severe damage to much of Poland prior to invading Russia, which wasn’t exactly beneficial to Russian trade with the European continent.
Denying that Swedish monarchs like Charles XII and Gustavus III put an end to Russian plans of expansion westwards is futile.
Charles XII and Ronald Reagan are two of the foremost heroes of Western civilization. They knew the spirit of Russia like few others.
No, I don’t hate Russia, but I believe the bear has to be tamed.
Uhh. Look at a map of Russia in 1709 versus 1795. Westward expansion seems to have proceeded quite nicely.
In fact, most of the land area controlled by Sweden in 1709 was Russian in 1795, including Finland and the Baltics.
If Charles XII had concentrated on building up the "Sweden" of 1709 rather than attempting to conquer Russia, it would probably have worked out a lot better for his country. During his reign he managed to take Sweden from a first rank status among nations to at best third-rate status.
Uhh. Look at a map of Russia in 1709 versus 1795. Westward expansion seems to have proceeded quite nicely.
In fact, most of the land area controlled by Sweden in 1709 was Russian in 1795, including Finland and the Baltics.
If Charles XII had concentrated on building up the "Sweden" of 1709 rather than attempting to conquer Russia, it would probably have worked out a lot better for his country. During his reign he managed to take Sweden from a first rank status among nations to at best third-rate status.
“Westward expansion seems to have proceeded quite nicely.”
- I wouldn’t call destroying the economy of the Baltic states expanding westwards.
The same thing goes for Finland that was conquered in 1809 thanks to the courteous promises of a certain Corsican.
Russia pushed her borders westwards, yes, but did this involve any economic, military or cultural “expansion” to speak of.
I’d say very little. The game was already over and Russia failed to reached the seven seas.
Sweden lost a Baltic empire, true, but remains the leading economic, military and cultural power in the Baltic area - to a great extent this is thanks to Charles XII and Gustavus III.
They tamed the bear.
Russia did not fail in a war with Napoleon, but did not push westward its borders, using opportunity. May be it had no such plans? There were no such things, as Baltic States, they were Bolshevic’s creation. Native people were farmlabourers of Baltian German barons. You know, after Peter I Russian tsars were Germans by nationality.
Tsar Alexander I annexed to Finland territories, belonged to Russia, so after Bolshevik revolution Russia’s capital Petersburg became borderline town. On the eve of the WWII such position was absolutely unacceptable to Stalin. He proposed twice as big territory in Karelia in exchange for piece of land near Leningrad, but Finland denied.
During WWII Sweden produced 30% bombs, used by Wehrmacht in Eastern front. They tamed bear
“...and an American company like Standard Oil sold vast amounts of fuel to the Luftwaffe.”
You Swedes did very well for yourselves selling to the NAZIs during the war as well.
“Is there a point in arguing over what part of Western Civilization that ought to do more in the field of fighting terrorism?”
There is when the burden falls disproportionally on one group or people. You Swedes seem ok with having my kids defend your freedoms, but collectively balk when your kids are called. We have an old saying here, “A friend in need is a friend indeed.” We’re looking at your actions not your words.
“Or should all of us freedom lovers fight the good fight...?”
We’re waiting. No more talk, do. Uh uh...don’t talk, DO!
That’s where our differences lie.
“Russia did not fail in a war with Napoleon”
- Agreed.
“During WWII Sweden produced 30% bombs, used by Wehrmacht in Eastern front.”
- Yes, but Russia attacked Finland.
Sweden will always wish to have good relations with mighty Russia, but, on the other hand, Sweden will never accept Russian attacks on Finland.
“There is when the burden falls disproportionally on one group or people. You Swedes seem ok with having my kids defend your freedoms, but collectively balk when your kids are called. We have an old saying here, “A friend in need is a friend indeed.” We’re looking at your actions not your words.”
- If you think we Swedes/we Scandinavians/we Europeans agree to have the WOT fought by Americans alone, you are severly mistaken.
I can understand if many Americans feel Europe has let the US down, but believe me, we Europeans bother a lot about what took place on British and Spanish soil some years ago.
Yes, we could all do more, but trust me, we Europeans also recognize what America has done for our part of the world.
America is not alone in this world.
“we Europeans also recognize what America has done for our part of the world”
The good folks there, like yourself, always have, my friend.
“The good folks there, like yourself, always have, my friend.”
- Nice to hear this fact is acknowledged in US!
There are millions of Europeans who love America and are in perfect touch with political reality.
Best of regards!
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