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String Theory Skeptics and Multiverse Mania
Not Even Wrong ^ | 02/21/2012 | Peter Woit

Posted on 02/23/2012 7:32:29 PM PST by SeekAndFind

My endless rants here about the hot field of multiverse studies are mainly motivated by concern about the effect this is having on particle theory. Multiverse scenarios all too often function as an excuse for not admitting that string theory/extra-dimensional ideas about unification have failed. Such an admission would encourage people to move on to more promising ideas, but instead hep-th is stuck in an endless doldrums with the high profile public face of the subject dominated by excited claims about what a wonderful discovery this region is.

Independently of the string theory problem, I’m personally a skeptic that multiverse studies have any promise, simply due to the fact that the subject lacks a viable theory, any experimental evidence, and any plausible prospects for getting either. Others feel differently though, and very recently two of my fellow string theory skeptics have written about the subject much more positively.

The first is Lee Smolin, who has written an essay for the Foundations of Physics “Forty Years of String Theory” volume with the title A perspective on the landscape problem. Smolin’s interest in multiverse models goes way back, to long before the current string-theory-based mania. He’s got a good argument that he was the originator of the term “landscape” itself, which he wrote about back in his 1997 book The Life of the Cosmos. If you’re interested in the multiverse at all, Smolin’s article is well-worth reading. I very much agree with his emphasis on the principle that one has to be careful to stick to ideas that can legitimately count as science, by conventional standards of testability. He is pursuing “cosmological natural selection” scenarios which he argues do have testable consequences. I’m not convinced there’s enough there to ever lead to solid evidence for such a scenario, although there may be enough structure there to sooner or later make it clear if the idea is simply falsified by one fact or other about the universe.

Today’s New York Times has an article by Dennis Overbye about Lawrence Krauss and his new book A Universe From Nothing. Much of the book is an excellent discussion of cosmology and the physics of the vacuum, but it also devotes a lot of effort to discussing the meaningless question of “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and arguing against the invocation of a deity in order to answer it. Krauss is no fan of string theory, which he regards as overhyped, but he seems to have developed an attraction to multiverse studies recently, perhaps motivated by their use in arguments with those who see the Big Bang as a place for God to hang out.

Personally I’ve no interest in arguments about the existence of God, which epitomize to me an empty waste of time. Given the real dangers of religious fundamentalism in the US though, I’m glad that others like Krauss make the effort to answer some of these arguments. I’m less happy to see him and others adopting the multiverse as their weapon of choice in this battle, since it’s a lousy one and not going to convince anyone. In the New York Times piece we’re told:

“Maybe in the true eternal multiverse there are truly no laws,” Dr. Krauss said in an e-mail. “Maybe indeed randomness is all there is and everything that can happen happens somewhere.”

Given the choice between this vision of fundamental science and “God did it” as explanations for the nature of the universe, one can’t be surprised if people go for the man in the white robes…



Peter Woit is Senior Lecturer in the Mathematics department at Columbia University, where teaches, does research, and is responsible for the department Computer system. For the past couple years, he has also been Calculus Director, coordinating Calculus teaching and implementing our use of the WebAssign online homework system in some of the Calculus classes.

His academic background includes undergraduate and master's degrees in physics from Harvard, a Ph.D. in particle theory from Princeton, and postdocs in physics (ITP Stony Brook) and mathematics (MSRI Berkeley). He has been at Columbia since 1989, starting as Ritt assistant professor.


TOPICS: Astronomy; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: creation; evolution; multiverse; stringtheory
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1 posted on 02/23/2012 7:32:31 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Sir Issac Newton was both the father of modern physics and the best theologian in England.

" Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."
2 posted on 02/23/2012 7:36:44 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

RE: God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done.

This statement disqualifies Sir Newton from teaching science in our schools.


3 posted on 02/23/2012 7:37:58 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Not to many people know who Sir Issac Newton to begin with.


4 posted on 02/23/2012 7:39:18 PM PST by U-238
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To: U-238

Didn’t he grow apples or something?


5 posted on 02/23/2012 7:42:07 PM PST by EEGator
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To: SeekAndFind
Kind of a long winded explanation of a current problem in math. It seems that you can use math to describe things that are simply not possible in this universe.

In fact, you can go through every detail of string theory, or the multiverse theory, and use it to say just about anything you might imagine one way or the other ~ without limit.

Some have put a cap of how many multiverse situations can really occur but I've seen folks use other math to simply demolish a cap.

So, what is going on? My personal theory is very simple ~ that in this universe at least you cannot predict the future. You can certainly project trends but you cannot predict!

The evidence for that arises out of the discovery that given a whole bunch of waves in the ocean there's a probability (may be vanishingly small) that a larger wave exists in their midst, and that maybe an even larger wave than that.

Before the discovery of real rogue waves the math used to describe fluid dynamics failed to predict the existence of such waves. Now that we know they exist we can actually describe them and their behavior quite well ~ even determine the probabilities of a wave of this, that orthe other size just popping up ~ but we cannot predict that with certainty.

Quantum tunneling depends on similar processes ~ some wave forms (electrons or protons perhaps) occurring in higher energy levels than we can predict with certainty, but occurring in any case.

It's like uncertainty prohibits us looking into the future.

6 posted on 02/23/2012 7:47:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: SeekAndFind
The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God." The fool hath said in his heart, "There is a God."

7 posted on 02/23/2012 7:47:28 PM PST by I see my hands (It's time to.. KICK OUT THE JAMS, MOTHER FREEPERS!)
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To: EEGator
Didn’t he grow apples or something?

Good heavens, no! He grew figs. Surely you've heard of the (wait for it)...fig newton?

8 posted on 02/23/2012 7:52:23 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: SeekAndFind

String theory and multiverse theories are BS of the worst sort, motivated by a recognition of the mathematical odds against evolution in the one universe which we actually live in and know anything about.


9 posted on 02/23/2012 7:54:04 PM PST by varmintman
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To: SeekAndFind
All the planets are puppets controlled by strings.

All the male inhabitants on the Blue Planet are controlled by string bikinis that control the purse strings and leave the males on a shoestring.

It`s all one big happy web.

10 posted on 02/23/2012 7:54:36 PM PST by bunkerhill7 (Strings on planet G????-?- Who knew?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Could you either refer to it as “string hypothesis”, or tell us what repeatable experiment demonstrates the the truth of the hypothesis?


11 posted on 02/23/2012 7:55:40 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: U-238

Bump! thanks for posting!


12 posted on 02/23/2012 7:58:34 PM PST by LittleBillyInfidel (This tagline has been formatted to fit the screen. Some content has been edited.)
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To: Billthedrill

Oh man...that was bad!


13 posted on 02/23/2012 8:03:28 PM PST by EEGator
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To: SeekAndFind

but, you know, the New York Times...sigh. They have a book list...


14 posted on 02/23/2012 8:03:48 PM PST by Beowulf9
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To: SeekAndFind

“Consider the enormousness of the problem : Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: ‘What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe?’ And science cannot answer these questions.”

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

Robert Jastrow


15 posted on 02/23/2012 8:04:39 PM PST by garjog
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To: EEGator
Ah, thankyouthankyouthankyou!

It was Rocky & Bullwinkle who did that to me. Society is to blame.

16 posted on 02/23/2012 8:07:05 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: varmintman

String theory came about by accident when two physicists accidentally discovered that an obscure eighteenth century mathematical expression called the Euler Beta function unexpectedly described quantum behavior. There was no anti-relgious motivation involved at all.


17 posted on 02/23/2012 8:07:57 PM PST by demas415
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To: SeekAndFind

The problem with string theory, is that instead of noticing that the math no longer describes reality,, we are assured that the math is correct, and that there are magic invisible universes and worlds.

Which is more plausible,, the lunacy of string theory, taken as a representation of reality?? Or that the math somewhere took a turn off the path of truth?

It’s happened before,,so many deep errors in describing reality had entire bodies of “proof”.


18 posted on 02/23/2012 8:08:13 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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To: varmintman

Point to ponder...

The other day someone posted an interactive site zooming from the smallest parts of what we believe exists, through the mwasureable, up to the spherical ball that consists of the believed universe...

It went like this...

Bits of point matter
Empty space
Bigger bits
Empty space
repeated a few times
Then...

Bits of matter (quarks and such
Empty space
Atoms - Bits of matter orbited by other bits of matter
Empty space
Bigger ones
Empty space
repeated a few times
Then...
Things we can see with microscopes
Things in the world
The World
The Sun
solar system (Matter with things orbiting around it)
Empty space
Other solar systems (Matter with things orbiting around it)
Empty space
Our galaxy (central core with things orbiting around it)
Empty space
Galactic clusters (central core with things orbiting around it)

ETC

Zoomed out far enough, our universe appears to be a point of matter.

So considering the repeating process above, The fact that we could be one ‘molecule’, our universe could be one molecule in a much larger ‘thing’, with uncounted others, does not strike me as far fetched.

Anyone thinking that in a couple hundred years of actual hard science, that we have done anything but scratch the surface of what ‘is’ in ‘reality’ is pretty arrogant or deluding themselves. One of the two.


19 posted on 02/23/2012 8:11:30 PM PST by Norm Lenhart (Normie: Wandering Druid, Cult of Palin)
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To: Norm Lenhart

It is anomalous to replace the four-dimensional continuum by a five-dimensional one and then subsequently to tie up artificially one of those five dimensions in order to account for the fact that it does not manifest itself. –Einstein to Paul Ehrenfest

String theorists don’t make predictions, they make excuses. –Feynman, Noble Laureate

String theory is like a 50 year old woman wearing too much lipstick. –Laughlin, Nobel Laureate

“It is tragic, but now, we have the string theorists, thousands of them, that also dream of explaining all the features of nature. They just celebrated the 20th anniversary of superstring theory. So when one person spends 30 years, it’s a waste, but when thousands waste 20 years in modern day, they celebrate with champagne. I find that curious.” Sheldon Glashow, Nobel Laureate

I don’t like that they’re not calculating anything. I don’t like that they don’t check their ideas. I don’t like that for anything that disagrees with a n experiment, they cook up an explanation—a fix-up to say, “Well, it might be true.” For example, the theory requires ten dimensions. Well, maybe there’s a way of wrapping up six of the dimensions. Yes, that’s all possible mathematically, but why not seven? When they write their equation, the equation should decide how many of these things get wrapped up, not the desire to agree with experiment. In other words, there’s no reason whatsoever in superstring theory that it isn’t eight out of the ten dimensions that get wrapped up and that the result is only two dimensions, which would be completely in disagreement with experience. So the fact that it might disagree with experience is very tenuous, it doesn’t produce anything; it has to be excused most of the time. It doesn’t look right. –Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics


20 posted on 02/23/2012 8:15:49 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office)
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