Vanity: S&W 642 for a first gun?

[nonsporting]

This S&W Model 66, 4" 357/38, 6 shot revolver makes a great first handgun. (k-frame)

The Model 642 is a lightweight, 5-shot j-frame, that will be a punishment to shoot. It makes better concealed carry pieces. But for a first handgun you want something that will encourage the shooter to actually shoot it.

[Gaffer]

Yes. I agree. I’m not a fan of the featherweights (S&W calls the alloy Scandium). I have a Governor with a Scandium frame, and one thing that isn’t often noted is there are instructions that walk the user through finding out the “right” ammunition to use in them.

Load up the ammo, shoot 4-5 rounds and check the last 1-2 rounds and see if slugs have slipped (IOW started to unseat). If it does this, find another type of ammo and repeat. I did this with several types and finally had to settle that what I could shoot without doing this was Hornady FTX-185 grain in 45 Colt.

With a lightweight frame and +Ps in 38 or 357 I could see this happening also. That’s why I ended up working with the wife on trying different revolvers until we got to the 5 shot, 357 Model 60LS - Lady Smith - can shoot 38 special, 38 special +P and 357.

Nice all-steel revolver, not heavy, great for a lady’s hand. Shoots great. Pricey but worth it. If it didn’t have that “Lady Smith” on it, I’d carry one.

[trebb]

If it's her first, she may not be knowledgeable enough to know what's really best for her. She needs some range time with several types and sizes of weapons before she can make a good choice. My wife chose a Taurus Slim 9mm because it fit her hand and was still big enough to reduce recoil - and she can empty a 7-round mag into a 8" paper plate at 25+ feet w/o "bulls eye aiming" which is perfect for a self defense weapon.

I have some nice weapons and opted to carry a little .380 pocket gun for everyday use because of its size and ease of concealing it - crappy for target shooting but fine for someone who can shoot as far as self defense goes.

Give her range time!

[MileHi]

I’ve only run across one.

[IMR 4350]

If they want something small then you need to go with a smaller round, .32mag or .327, maybe even .22 mag.

Small lightweight guns in .38 and up are not for the novice shooter.

Friend of mine was going to buy his wife a featherweight .357 she could shoot .38s in.

He and 2 of his sons each fired a .38 and a .357 out of one before he bought one to see if his wife could handle it.

All 3 agreed there was no way his wife could handle it in .38 much less .357.

I mainly shoot cast bullets.

Heavy role crimp in the crimp groove pretty much keeps the bullet in place even with the heaviest load no matter what I’m shooting, .38/.357,.44spcl/.44mag, .41mag, .45 colt.

I’ve got a Charter Bulldog .44spcl.

I shoot 240gr swc right at factory level and I don’t have any problem with the bullet moving.

I tried 200gr and 185gr in it but the accuracy just isn’t there.

With the 240gr it is surprising how accurate it is.

[Gaffer]

Small lightweight guns in .38 and up are not for the novice shooter

The very first gun my wife ever shot (and took to the Basic Handgun Class/Range course) was a 38 special +P rated S&W Model 10. She likes it and can handle it well. My daughter's first shots beside an AR-15 and a 9mm Glock was a Model 625 JM I owned (ended up having to give it to her). She took her Basic Handgun Course with a Model 686 357. It's what she shoots every Tuesday where she puts most of the others there to shame on accuracy. My point on that is there is too much angst on what a woman can or cannot shoot. Let them try and if they like it, then have at it. On the roll crimped hand loaded bullets you mention. Have you ever tried them in a lightweight alloy frame as was discussed? I've tried one or two manufacturers' roll crimped and they did just what the Governor manual said could happen. Maybe doing your own is better but I was talking commercial stuff.

[Jim Noble]

I carry and shoot a 642 all the time.

I don’t know about others, but I had to work my way up to being comfortable with the recoil.

For me, it would not have been a good starter.

[niteowl77]

I had not thought about it but now that you mention wad cutter target loads, they would not be bad in a 642.

They used to be commonplace loads that did double duty, and they were - in those days - considered an acceptable HD/SD alternative in the lighter revolvers… which would probably be considered "not so light" by today's standards. While recently helping out a new shooter who is physically not up to stout recoil I was reminded - once again - that while there are certainly better defensive rounds, the target .38 Special match wadcutter remained an acceptable choice.

It was controllable, therefore shot placement was improved; it was accurate at reasonable HD/SD ranges; it was reliable (more so than much of the current .22LR ammunition); it was more effective than a sharp stick in a pair of weakened hands. There is also a revolver selection component that goes with this particular story, but it doesn't cover any ground that C.E. Harris doesn't cover far better in his thoughts on the matter.

Which Is Best As One Handgun for Non-Hobbyist?

Mr. niteowl77

[IMR 4350]

I’ve never tried the cast loads in a alloy frame but I have had to pull bullets after I’ve loaded them and it takes several good whacks with a kinetic bullet puller to get the bullets out.

Loaded right with the crimp is in the crimp groove it takes much more force to bend that brass back out than you get with recoil.

[Gaffer]

All I can say is that I have a Scandium alloy framed Governor and like most of their lightweights, S&W cautions about testing the ammo for slug separation before continued use of that ammo. I tried several different kinds from Super X, to Hornady, and the 185 grain didn’t separate at all. Some of the ones I tried were factory crimped and it didn’t matter.

If you really want to try and separate slugs from cases, try some old 45 ACP made during WWII. That stuff is TIGHT! Some of it (Remington) was sealed with some sort of glue that forced me to go down a size in the collet puller of my Leeman to get them out. Ended up completely deforming the slugs. I even wrote a paper/article about Dewating this old WWII ammo.

[IMR 4350]

I don’t think I’ve shot a factory load out of my handguns in over 30 years so I can’t say what a factory crimp looks like.

If you’ve got some factory ammo with cast bullets, if you have the means to do it, you might try reseating with a slightly heavier crimp to see how it works.

A couple of thousandths deeper wont make a difference.

Cowboy loads would probably be a lot cheaper and easier to get to practice with than jacket loads, if they work.

[Gaffer]

In what I've seen, the crimps aren't over a deep cannelured groove in the slug in the ones I've shot through it. I know some of the non standard grooved slugs are more substantial. If anything in the commercial stuff widely used, the slugs were passed through a light knurling. But for my Governor, the Hornady 185 FTXs are just fine. I won't be shooting anyone at 100 feet or more with them. In the governor, I can load up two 45 ACP in two moon clip, two .410 slug cartridges and two 45 Colts. That's about all I need in a night time pinch. :0)

[buffaloguy]

First gun to be a revolver: good.

If she will carry in her purse a heavier gun would be good. A longer barrel, and a heavier frame is way easier to use at the range.

It will only be her first gun. Her needs will change over the years and she will be buying other guns.

Rent a few revolvers at a range and find out what she likes best. You might be surprised.

[Tainan]

If recoil is a problem for her, just get "lighter" loads. Easily available in .38 special.
Even such a mild load as a "wadcutter" are very effective for personal protection and deterrence.

[wardaddy]

A gun like that is a close range weapon 99% of the time unless you’re Bill Hickock

My wife has the 642PD

Hard to beat weight wise