Posted on 05/19/2015 10:33:26 PM PDT by iowamark
Even while the Civil War raged, slaves in Cuba could be heard singing, “Avanza, Lincoln, avanza! Tu eres nuestra esperanza!” (Onward, Lincoln, Onward! You are our hope!) – as if they knew, even before the soldiers fighting the war far to the North and long before most politicians understood, that the war in America would change their lives, and the world.
The secession crisis of 1860-1861 threatened to be a major setback to the world antislavery movement, and it imperiled the whole experiment in democracy. If slavery was allowed to exist, and if the world’s leading democracy could fall apart over the issue, what hope did freedom have? European powers wasted no time in taking advantage of the debacle. France and Britain immediately each sent fleets of warships with the official purpose of observing the imminent war in America. In Paris, A New York Times correspondent who went by the byline “Malakoff” thought that the French and British observers “may be intended as a sort of escort of honor for the funeral of the Great Republic.”
...the French forced Benito Juárez, the republican leader, to flee the capital and eventually installed the Austrian archduke Maximilian as emperor of Mexico.
European conservatives welcomed the dismemberment of the “once United States” and the bursting of the “republican bubble” that, beginning with the French Revolution, had inspired revolution and unrest in Europe. Republicanism had been in retreat in Europe since the failed revolutions of 1848, and some predicted that all the wayward American republics would eventually find their way back to some form of monarchy, or seek protection under European imperial rule. When Lincoln, in the darkest days of the war, referred to America as the “last best hope of earth,” he was hardly boasting...
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com ...
That is the beauty, the state secedes and boom you are in a new country.
First off, as I've said many times here, just saying you're not a different country doesn't make it so. And second, why only a state? What gives a state a right to declare itself a different country that individuals or other groupings of individuals are denied?
The War of 1812 was significant because the Brits accepted US independence and the Louisiana Purchase, both of which would have been in jeopardy had they won the Battle of New Orleans.
Yes, the British considered their victory over Napoleon to be decisive. They put the old Royals back in power in Europe. However, that did not last very long.
Well, you’re right about the boom part.
First off, the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the Treaty of Ghent had been signed and changed nothing about the terms. As for U.S. independence, that had been accepted by the British in 1783, so there was no change from before the war, and I can't recall ever seeing the British contest the Louisiana Purchase. Certainly the Treaty of Ghent makes no mention of it.
If the Brits had won New Orleans, the unratified treaty would have been out the window.
Unlikely. The entire goal of the New Orleans campaign was to add a bargaining chip to the negotiations. The last thing they wanted was an extended war across the Atlantic like they'd lost 30 years before.
True. The "wind from America" was a major influence on the French Revolution and on Latin American independence movements.
The US victory in the War of 1812 over the British Empire was similarly decisive.
Maybe not so true. Did we actually win that war?
Even if the British won, they could hamper US plans, but weren't going to put us under the rule of King and Parliament again. That ship had sailed long before.
Whoever won the War of 1812, it was very important for Canadian history, but I'd say the British victory over Napoleon that happened in the same period was more significant in World history.
Sure. One reb could whup fifty Prooshians. What the Southerners thought about their army was a lot like what the French thought of theirs at about the same time.
Your comment's silly. If the Prussian Army somehow showed up in Virginia, they'd lose. Ditto if the Confederate Army landed in Niedersachsen.
Ok so the Prussian Army could whip the Army of the Potomac too.
Nice that you've set yourself up as an expert slime ball.
Lincoln was a politician. That means knowing what appeals to a given audience. It doesn't necessarily mean one is without principle. One has to get elected. That means winning over people with different views, rather than antagonizing them.
I wonder if a lot of the animosity towards Lincoln as a politician (or statesman, which is what we call successful politicians who've passed on) doesn't reflect the long one party heritage of the South. South Carolina was a one party state before the Civil War, and didn't even count the popular vote for president. Mississippi wasn't far behind as a monoparty state.
Pfff. Big deal.
How big was the Confederate Army in 1856?
How big was the US Army in 1856?
When one country was fully mobilized with a large army it could defeat a variety of enemies that are still on a peacetime footing, but so what? A year later, you've demobilized your army, the other guys have assembled theirs and you'd get a different result.
It's not really a useful comparison -- all the more so since by the time one army had fully crossed the Atlantic, the other probably would be mobilized and ready to fight.
Was Reagan like that? Bush 43? No. What you saw in one speech you got the same the next day.
Lincoln was a slime ball.
More research on your part would reveal that the official statements of the secession conventions were those approved by the people. The “causes” publications were editorials.
Northern newspapers and politicians tried to misrepresent the facts....some things never change.
cva thinks in relativistic terms so it’s easy to confuse him by lines of reasoning such as yours. Go easy on him ;’)
Kinda figured from the title the thread would get highjacked, though.
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