Posted on 03/23/2015 1:17:25 PM PDT by bigdaddy45
So I saw several years of complaints that Obama was born in Kenya. Lets assume he was. His mother is an American citizen; there isn't any dispute there. And, in the minds of those who believe he was born in Kenya, that means he's not eligible to be President.
Lets move to Ted Cruz. He was born in Canada. His father wasn't a US Citizen at the time of his birth. His mother was. So if Obama being born in Kenya supposedly matters, why does Cruz being born in Canada NOT matter?
Wouldn’t it be a hoot if Obama had a foreign Student Visa issued to him in the late 70’s early 80’s....
You do know that Ted Cruz’s father was born in Cuba and only became a citizen many years after his son’s birth. Correct?
So does that make Ted Cruz not a NBC either?
Nope. I just think it is suspect that it sat there for 16 years without being recognized as an issue. Then when caught is it, “oops, my bad.” Not even, my bad. But it’s my editors fault.
Just like everything else he gets caught with. “Not my fault.” It’s not what you do that’s bad. It’s the cover up that’s bad.
If Obama told the truth in 2007, it wouldn’t have been an issue.
One of Mr. Megan’s friends is a prosecutor and I heard him say that if Obama was ACCUSED of being born in Hawaii it would be near impossible to prove in court.
I like the idea of compromise and I can see Ted Cruz as a wonderful Secretary of State for President Scott Walker.
I respectfully disagree. For one thing there are a lot of new Freepers who were not here for the original "birther wars" circa 2007. For another your particular scenario is one I have not heard, and I've been on lots and lots of birther threads.
In 1961, a parent having a baby outside of the USA had to have been in the country for at least 5 years over the age of 15 (I might be a year off but the rule is like that) IN ORDER TO CONFER AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP onto her new baby. Barack Obama’s father was not American. His mother was, but she was only 18. She was not old enough to be able to give usa citizenship to her baby Barack.
OK, so for that law to have any bearing one has to accept the unproven conjecture that Obama was born outside the USA. Mostly in the past Kenya has been offered as his place of birth. That has always seemed highly unlikely. Your "Vancouver, Canada" theory is much better, but still lacks any evidence.
But lets stipulate that Obama was born in Canada as you suggest. Did he get citizenship from his Mom?
Here is the actual law in effect at that time, "THE “IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT OF 1952”:"
: (7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totalling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.This was slightly amended in 1957 in the "THE “CITIZENSHIP ACT OF SEPTEMBER 11, 1957” (71 STAT. 644)", thusly:
• "Section 16. In the administration of section 301 (b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, absences from the United States of less than twelve months in the aggregate, during the period for which continuous physical presence in the United States is required, shall not be considered to break the continuity of such physical presence."
Now, using standard biographical information for Stanley Ann Durham, she easily passes the "10 year test" Born and raised in Witchita, California and Seattle.
Now lets look at the second test: She was 18 and 1/2 years old when Obama was born. "at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen" Would require her to be 19 to meet this test, she fell about nine months short.
So, if you or anyone else could prove that Obama was actually born in Canada (or Kenya) then you would have a great case that he is not a citizen. (Unless he nationalized sometime, and it's been hidden, but even then he would not be a NBC.)
To me, by the way this is the ONLY birther scenario that would clearly prove that Obama is not an NBC. (I was termed and "anti-birhter" earlier today, LOL, but hey even I have my conditions.)
His bc is an online fake. He was first seen as a newborn in Seattle, as far as we know. At Stanley Ann’s left wing high school, when girls got knocked up, they disappeared over the border into Canada to live out the pregnancy and have their babies at one of the two unwed mother’s homes in Vancouver. They usually gave the babies up for adoption. This was the plan for Stanley Ann, probably, as well. Why else would she show up ready for classes to start at the university there, with newborn Barack, not even knowing how to change his diaper?
All fascinating. And somewhat plausible. But of course Barack Sr. doesn't fit into the story at all. He was in Hawaii and you are suggesting she got knocked up in Seattle? Who was knockin' the boot?
You see how this quickly spirals out of control. So he wasn't born in Hawaii, he was born in Canada. And he's not Barack's son, he's some other guys, but his name was given to him because .... ???
It all gets pretty implausible fast, in my humble opinion.
Still, I'd love to see the details on your theory.
Who would leave their helpful parents in Hawaii and fly with a new baby at 18 to live alone in Seattle? obama Sr. was never in the picture.
Good point. Perhaps she expected Obama Sr. to follow, I guess while somewhat implausible it's not as implausable as someone else was Obama's dad, but he got Obama's name.
So the concern is, re Obama, perhaps if he were born in Canada he was never even a citizen of the United states. He’s never naturalized. Being married to Mooch makes him eligible, but if he were born over the border, he not only wasn’t born a citizen but he was not a citizen at all.
Yes, if your theory is true, I concur, he's not just not a Natural Born Citizen, he's not a Citizen at all.
Ted Cruz was born an American. The second he was born he was American. That is a natural born citizen. His mother was old enough to confer her citizenship.
Perhaps, but as we've seen in the case of Obama the details are important. Did Cruz's Mom pass the 10 year test? The five year test? Was the law the same at the time of Cruz's birth as Obama's? (No, it was amended again in 1966, Cruz was born in 1970.)
So, I'm withholding judgement for the time being. We need detailed biographical information and a close reading of the law in effect at the time, the same work the birthers did for Obama, for Cruz.
After that it will be open to iterpretation, based on one's own views of what "Natural Born Citizen" means. There are many views, some disqualify Ted. Even using the most mainstream view (the one Obama benefited from) he might be disqualified based on specifics of his mother's foreign residence. There is no possible way he got citizenship from being born in the USA or his father, so if his mom's citizenship granting ability vanishes, he's not and NBC, he many not even be a citizen, and he's not eligible to be POTUS.
I brought that subject up a while back- seems the power the is (singularity, I suppose)said to back off, Cruz was his boy and no logic or rhetoric seemingly would stop FR support of another Manchurian....”ours”.
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And the reason why you should back off is clear.
Too many concern trolls are using this birther issue as a wedge to discredit Ted Cruz. Several trolls have been zotted today already, and I’m sure many more will be soon.
First they (try to) compare apples to apples the details between Obama’s birth issues complete with the lies and fraud. Then they try and tie that in to Senator’s Cruz’s record. As if he too lied his ass off like Obama.
Then they start in with the innocuous questions. Harmless and sincere? Not hardly.
Then they attack. “another Manchurian....”ours”.
Really? Ted Cruz is our Manchurian Candidate?
IBTZ.
Better check your facts.
“And, in the minds of those who believe he was born in Kenya, that means he’s not eligible to be President.”
Not quite. There is a difference in the laws now, versus what the law was at the time Obama was born. At that time, for a mother to pass her citizenship along to a child born to only 1 citizen parent, she had to have been a citizen for at least ten years, and five of those had to be above the age of 14. Dunham had Barry when she was on 18, so she could not meet those requirements.
Bingo! “Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood) is a principle of nationality law by which citizenship is not determined by place of birth but by having one or both parents who are citizens of the state.”
For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[10]
1.The person’s parents were married at the time of birth
2.One of the person’s parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
3.The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child’s birth;
4.A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent’s 14th birthday.
Skeeter nailed it. So did I. I called IBTZ way upthread. concerntroll as a keyword?
That’s me.
I said upthread and say it again. You are using this thread as an opportunity to bash Sen. Cruz.
You are talking about a tiny slice of the population who tried that on bambi. As a mom I don’t care if my babies were born in outer space they carry my US citizenship. I never bought into that BC crap.
I do know that, and based on the 1790 law, which was the only law that explicitly stated what Natural Born citizen was, and fully stated that a child who’s father was a foreign national was not a natural born citizen. Yes, Cruz would be ineligible as well.
The 1790 law was superceded by a law in 1795 which made no mention of natural born citizen.
However, by the only passed law that I am aware of that defined natural born citizen, Obama and Cruz are both ineligible.
The cool thing about birtherism is that there are so many opinions, and so many theories!
Yours I do not really understand. First off the "his mom renounced his citizenship" is bunk, sorry.
From US Consular Affairs web site:
F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent. Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.Obama may need to pretend he was born in the USA because if we was born anywhere else he's probably not a citizen at all (much less a Natural Born Citizen).
But of course many of the birther theories include someone other than Obama Sr. as the dad, so in some of those cases maybe he picked up citizenship from the unacknowledged real dad. If Malcolm X is his real father, as has been speculated upon, then he is an American citizen (at least, and probably an NBC too using many formuals) from him, regardless of his Mom's age or location of birth.
“Very few people actually believe that Obama was born in Kenya.”
Maybe, at this point, that is true, but I am from Chicago, and I can tell you, that was a commonly reported fact about him when he was just a local politician, with no aspirations of the Presidency.
Basically to study the wording of the actual law. Retroactive application of laws, however, is somewhat of a bugaboo. Retroactivity obviously has major collision possibilities with standing laws, but the real problem is that it undermines the stability of the legal system altogether. So - usually - a retroactive law will state explicitly that it is retroactive, and to what extent, and even why, so that a court can stand on firm ground adjudicating it. Because absent extraordinary circumstances, the substantive argument against retroactivity is simply that the statute never mentions the subject. Statutory laws are "positive" laws - if they say something it exists, if they don't say something it doesn't exist.
YES! The issue is Undivided Loyalty. Ted Cruz is "one of US". Obama never was and never will be "one of US"
Exactly.
The whole notion that Obama's teenage mother flew by herself halfway around the world from Hawaii to give birth to little Barry in a mud hut somewhere in the middle of Kenya has always been preposterous.
Did Obama lie about being born in Kenya during his younger adulthood? Perhaps, but he sure as hell wasn't born there.
There is NO Legal Proof of where Obama was born. 2 forged COLBs have been presented electronically, by surrogates. Obama HAS NO PAPERS. And, I am not at all convinced that BHO, Sr. was in fact his father.
We the people doesn't mean you personally or people you've hand-picked. It means representatives selected via electoral means and judges who pass through the scrutiny of those pols. It's not flowery language, but it is a reference to pols and judges chosen directly and indirectly through an electoral process, rather than whatever faction feels aggrieved at any given time.
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