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Insurance for All: Germans Can't Fathom US Aversion to Obama's Healthcare Reform
Der Spiegel ^ | 05/11/2012 | Miriam Widman

Posted on 05/12/2012 2:21:57 PM PDT by Olog-hai

As the United States Supreme Court considers whether requiring people to have health insurance is unconstitutional, Germans are bewildered as to why so many Americans appear to be against universal coverage.

They also question the continued portrayal of US President Barack Obama and his health reform backers as socialists and communists, noting that healthcare was introduced in Germany in the 19th century by Otto von Bismarck, who was definitely not a leftist, and is supported by conservative and pro-business politicians today.

"It's a solidarity principle," says Ann Marini, a spokesperson for the National Health Insurers Association. "Not every 'S' automatically means socialism."

Marini and others say that mandated coverage is something that is simply not questioned in Germany. Furthermore, even the most pro-market politicians wouldn't dare to dismantle the country's health insurance system.

The requirement that everyone buy health insurance is based on a simple concept, healthcare experts agree. Allowing healthy people to opt out of having health insurance destroys the insurance community and leaves insurers covering only the sick. …

But there are other reasons why Germans are confused about the US healthcare debate. The US comes across to not only Germans, but to many Europeans, as a religious country. God seems to be part of many US debates, especially ones surrounding the presidential campaign. In secular European politics, the Almighty is rarely if ever invoked.

"For me the US is a very religious country. It doesn't matter which religion I look at—love thy neighbor is a very, very important point in religion," health insurance spokesperson Marini says. For her, the apparent deep religiousness of many Americans doesn't jibe with their unwillingness to be part of a healthcare community.

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Science; Society
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To: Bryanw92

One of the few exceptions. The word is all over the EU’s rhetoric though, and all through the Treaty of Lisbon and other Treaties on European Union.


51 posted on 05/12/2012 3:14:14 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Happy Rain

I am re-reading “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich”, my first reading was forty years ago. Hitler’s rise to power was an amazing time in history, a perfect storm as it were. But he was still an Austrian. He spent his youth named Adolph Shicklegruber, his mother’s maiden name. His father brought about the change only when an inheritance made it profitable for him to do so.


52 posted on 05/12/2012 3:16:20 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Alas Babylon!

Thank you for the quote you provided in #32 from this site: http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=74193.

Very well said.


53 posted on 05/12/2012 3:18:54 PM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: pepsionice

I agree that the hospitals & doctors offices are a bit outdated...But I’ve never felt that we lacked for treatment...and I love that they don’t push antibiotics, and they’re very open to homeopathic or natural alternatives. I had so many bad experiences with pediatrician offices in Houston...Hard to actually get a “real person” on the phone...long waiting times...endless antibiotic prescriptions. We’ve experienced the opposite here. I have to admit, I’ve been pleasantly surprised.


54 posted on 05/12/2012 3:21:45 PM PDT by cinciella
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To: Olog-hai

>>> Allowing healthy people to opt out of having health insurance destroys the insurance community and leaves insurers covering only the sick. …>>>

Untrue! Most people buy health insurance when they’re well so that they’ll be covered if they get sick. The above statement is akin to saying that only people whose homes are on fire buy house insurance.


55 posted on 05/12/2012 3:23:24 PM PDT by kitkat (Obama, ROPE and CHAINS.)
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To: pepsionice
If you ask me....all of the systems are screwed up. And in ten years...it won’t matter if you are German or American...you won’t have the same care that you had in 1995. We all will be getting less care, and asking why. The answer will not be a satisfactory one.
I'm afraid you are right.
56 posted on 05/12/2012 3:23:49 PM PDT by samtheman ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
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To: gorush

Mark


57 posted on 05/12/2012 3:24:27 PM PDT by sport
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To: darkwing104
Ask a German or a Brit where they would like to go if they needed a life saving surgery on short notice?

And they have the money.

58 posted on 05/12/2012 3:25:35 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Olog-hai

We have a diversity of total racist, amoral retards running our institutions and country. The left and the courts will race bait the nation into an early grave and call it “racial justice for Trayvon” or whatever their latest victim hate bandwagon is based upon.

Seriously, our government is totally abusive to us and has no respect for ethics, freedom, human life or dignity. They have no respect for anything good. I can not think of one area of government control where it does not crush and/or neglect people with power. Lately, they are into sexually molesting kids, the elderly and the handicapped at the airport in the name of stopping Islamic terrorism.

I can see us going from election to election, wiping out healthcare for this group or that group who does not “deserve” it. People would be watching the debates to see whose, child, mom, dad, aunt, uncle, etc. is going to be targeted for death by which candidate. It would be a socialist and libertarian dream come true!


59 posted on 05/12/2012 3:26:01 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Olog-hai

Under their logic, we are obligated to pay for everyone’s housing, food, transportation, anything else that is deemed necessary to live. Foreigners just don’t get it. They don’t know where their logic leads them.


60 posted on 05/12/2012 3:28:22 PM PDT by driftless2
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To: Olog-hai
"It's a solidarity principle," says Ann Marini, a spokesperson for the National Health Insurers Association. "Not every 'S' automatically means socialism."

Pardon me, but doesn't the German liberal party refer to itself as "Social Democrats" (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, SPD)? The SPD is a full member party of the Party of European Socialists and the Socialist International. It is Germany's oldest political party. It was also one of the first Marxist-influenced parties in the world. The current party platform of the SPD espouses the goal of social democracy (communism lite?), which is seen as a vision of a societal arrangement in which freedom and social justice (antithetical?) are paramount. According to the party platform, freedom, justice, and social solidarity, form the basis of social democracy. The coordinated social market economy should be strengthened, and its output should be distributed fairly. (any of this stuff starting to sound familiar?) The party sees that economic system as necessary in order to ensure the affluence of the entire population. (He must have been on drugs during this lecture...affluence is not equality of outcome) The SPD also tries to protect the society's disadvantaged with a welfare state.
Not every 'S' automatically means socialism."
But in this instance it most assuredly does. Lest we forget Karl Marx was a German who fully understood the use and misuse of language.

Allowing healthy people to opt out of having health insurance destroys the insurance community and leaves insurers covering only the sick. …

Only a German would think that this is a necessary symmetry, to which I reply what happens when healthy people start getting sick and all the money they simplemindedly put into the system has been spent on the "chronically ill" who have coincidentally been too sick to work? (Rather like our Ponzi scheme Social Security)

The other thing the Germans have working for them is their mindset. It is the only country in the world where two people will stand at an intersection at 2:00am, in a driving rain, with no visible traffic for miles, and wait for the light to change. I swear Germans do not need locks, a simple paper tag with the words "öffnen Sie sich nicht" will do, for they are constitutionally unable to color outside the lines! (that's why they are O & 2 in the World Series!)

Regards,
GtG

61 posted on 05/12/2012 3:28:47 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: cinciella

“The Hun is always either at your throat or at your feet”.

Winston Churchill


62 posted on 05/12/2012 3:31:21 PM PDT by jimbo123
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To: Happy Rain

The alliterative salute “Heil Hitler” may not have caught on as well as “Heil Shicklegruber”.


63 posted on 05/12/2012 3:33:58 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: kitkat
The above statement is akin to saying that only people whose homes are on fire buy house insurance.

Firefighters let home burn to the ground because owners didn’t pay $75 fee

64 posted on 05/12/2012 3:35:50 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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To: Olog-hai
I just read this. Apparently a party dedicated to the theft of digital media is polling at 14% in Germany. So I'm not surprised by your article.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/10/upstart-party-making-noise-in-german-politics/

65 posted on 05/12/2012 3:39:14 PM PDT by RetroSexual
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To: BeckB

You wrote:

“And Germany is not connected to a 3rd world continent which provides a never ending need for additional costs to the taxpayer.”

No, they just have Turkey, the Middle East and all of Eastern Europe moving in. Same difference. . . except for the fact that the Muslims blow up more things than most Hispanics.


66 posted on 05/12/2012 3:45:47 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Olog-hai

Germany perfected the term “Death Panels”. They can keep their noses out of Obamacare.


67 posted on 05/12/2012 3:48:44 PM PDT by radioone (No dogs were harmed in the writing of this response.)
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To: Average Al

They didn’t have much of a problem with death camps either...

Most of them didn’t have a problem with sending people with physical or mental handicaps up the chimney either.


68 posted on 05/12/2012 3:55:41 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Olog-hai

Yea the Germans are such bellwether’s of freedom


69 posted on 05/12/2012 4:01:44 PM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
That's right. The bottom line is that America and Europe have different sets of values. We are far from the same people.

Europeans willingly give up major swatches of liberty in exchange for security. Americans strike a very different bargain.

Works for us, so far.

70 posted on 05/12/2012 4:13:16 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: vladimir998

They wanted all of those to “move in”. Part of their geopolitical strategy.


71 posted on 05/12/2012 4:14:25 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: PubliusMM
The fact that the Germans (and other Europeans) can’t fathom the argument against mandatory purchase of coverage is clear indication that they do not ‘get’ America at all.

The argument in our Supreme Court isn't for or against mandatory purchase of coverage, it's whether the Federal gov't is the constitutional authority to mandate it.
72 posted on 05/12/2012 4:14:48 PM PDT by kenavi (1% of the 1% were born in the 1%.)
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To: Brilliant

Hitler was Austrian.


73 posted on 05/12/2012 4:16:31 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: gorush

And the other irony is that Stalin wasn’t Russian, he was Georgian.

This is what happens when you allow foreign-born people to be your leader.


74 posted on 05/12/2012 4:18:56 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Olog-hai; potlatch; PhilDragoo; bitt

Does the German healthcare system have tens of thousands of sneaky regulations that redistribute wealth, fundamentally transform the country and provide slush funds for political rewards?


75 posted on 05/12/2012 4:19:12 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: Olog-hai

It’s easy to have socialized medicine when you have the U.S., as the only for-profit healthcare economy in the world, funding the global R&D for pharmaceuticals and devices.

Every socialized healthcare system is subsidized by our “evil” for-profit system.

My solution to the healthcare debacle was always: levy duties on healthcare companies for the difference between what they charge U.S. consumers and foreign governmental consumers: U.S. healthcare problem solved.


76 posted on 05/12/2012 4:19:43 PM PDT by risen_feenix
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Americans historically have had some fundamental ideas about freedom that were dismissed as nonsense in much of Europe, especially the firmly regimented Germany. Americans are not so bent on a quest for utopia that they forget to consider what jolly well actually works the best.”

Very profound statement.


77 posted on 05/12/2012 4:20:38 PM PDT by tanuki (Left-wing Revolution: show biz for boring people.)
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To: ntnychik
You searching for some way to justify the German healthcare system . . . ? Meanwhile, the Germans’ opinion of Obamacare means . . . what, by contrast?
78 posted on 05/12/2012 4:21:18 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: gorush

Austria’s Greatest Achievement - Convincing the world that Beethoven was Austrian, and Hitler was German.


79 posted on 05/12/2012 4:23:02 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: tanuki

I try to be profound, though sometimes I only succeed in being pompously pontificatory...


80 posted on 05/12/2012 4:26:17 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Mitt! You're going to have to try harder than that to be "severely conservative" my friend.)
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To: jimbo123
German version of assisted suicide.

Cheap and effective.

Whats not to like?

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

81 posted on 05/12/2012 4:34:49 PM PDT by Delta 21 (Oh Crap !! Did I say that out loud ??!??)
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To: Olog-hai

I really don’t care what Germans think.


82 posted on 05/12/2012 4:35:44 PM PDT by Freddd (No PA Engineers)
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To: dfwgator

Now that’s funny right there.


83 posted on 05/12/2012 4:40:12 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Olog-hai

Does the German healthcare include abortions and birth control for free? Does it include same pay for all doctors?Does it include death counseling and rationing? Taxes,?Does it attack the Catholic faith in Germany? Did they have to pass it to see what was in it? Does it incl;ude insurance for illegal immigrants?

Does Germany have any idea WTF is in Obamacare?


84 posted on 05/12/2012 4:41:17 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: Brilliant

Nope, Hitler was not German!


85 posted on 05/12/2012 4:51:21 PM PDT by ANKE69 (German Conservative and proud of it!!!)
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To: jimbo123
Inside your head must be something very wrong!
86 posted on 05/12/2012 4:56:29 PM PDT by ANKE69 (German Conservative and proud of it!!!)
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To: basil

You got that right. SIL is from Germany. I think she’s amused about this country going down the tubes. From what I’ve seen, if it’s FREE, to her it’s GREAT, and she wants it and all of it she can get. - I grew up with my dad having been a WWII combat veteran shell shocked all to heck, so to say the least, having to deal with a German in the family has not been easy. (I’ve had the “mind like a steel trap” thing thrown down at me and my nose rubbed in it numerous times; plus having to walk on eggshells about the “Hitler” thing.)

EVERYTHING that the government has taken over here has been an endless tax pit and a failure, unacknowledged by the government, of course. . Medicare, the Post Office, and a bunch of other stuff too numerous to mention. The government just starts a thing, and the more it fails, the more they double down on doing what they’ve always done.


87 posted on 05/12/2012 4:57:34 PM PDT by Twinkie (John 3:16)
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To: Olog-hai

Because Germans have a history of being subservient and “just following orders”. Ours is a history of “get out of my face and leave me the f... alone!”


88 posted on 05/12/2012 4:57:52 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: combat_boots

What, they don’t teach them that Germany declared war on the USA on 12/11/1941?


89 posted on 05/12/2012 5:04:36 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: gorush

“Hitler’s rise to power was an amazing time in history, a perfect storm as it were. But he was still an Austrian.”

I seem to recall Hitler became an official German citizen about the time he became Chancellor. I might be wrong, but it seems I read this in “The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich”.


90 posted on 05/12/2012 5:04:36 PM PDT by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: WKUHilltopper

Yes, Hitler was Austrian but was made a citizen of Brunswick, Germany, by a local Nazi official in 1932. This made him a citizen of Germany.


91 posted on 05/12/2012 5:19:54 PM PDT by risen_feenix
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Exactly. Bismark feared a communist takeover, Ergo, old age pensions, govt. health care, etc.


92 posted on 05/12/2012 5:34:37 PM PDT by oldsicilian
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To: Brilliant

Actually Hitler was an Austrian, he was born in Bavaria. By serving in a German regiment in WW1 he was allowed to petition for German citizenship.


93 posted on 05/12/2012 5:49:48 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Alas Babylon!
Bismark was the great-granddaddy of the civil service bureaucracy.
94 posted on 05/12/2012 5:54:02 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

“Advice from people who really enjoy marching in parades’’<< Ain’t it the truth? You watch those documentaries on tv and boy those Krauts sure could march! Stompin’ around like they owned the Earth. Until we got them out of the habit that is.


95 posted on 05/12/2012 5:58:43 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: jimbo123

Exactly what I was going to tell him/her. Great quote.


96 posted on 05/12/2012 6:05:18 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: Olog-hai
Insurance for All: Germans Can't Fathom US Aversion to Obama's Healthcare Reform

I never realized that more than half of all Germans of working age are also on welfare.

So how do the Germans manage that many parasites?

97 posted on 05/12/2012 8:09:08 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: Yardstick
Not if insurers are free to refuse people with preexisting conditions.

Sorry, Jack. That has never "been insurance."
Welfare, maybe.
Insurance? Never.

I don't really care what Obama says.

98 posted on 05/12/2012 8:14:06 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: jmacusa
Hitler was not born in Bavaria, which is in Germany. He was born in Ranshofen, which is in Oberösterreich (Austria), across the Inn River from Bavaria (particularly Simbach am Inn).
99 posted on 05/12/2012 8:59:31 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: publius911

It’s called “beggar thy neighbor”.


100 posted on 05/12/2012 9:05:04 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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