Skip to comments.Martin attacked Zimmerman
Posted on 03/25/2012 7:26:44 AM PDT by Howard Morrison
(Excerpt) Read more at answers.yahoo.com ...
Was he trespassing? Thought his father’s girlfriend lived in the so-called “gated community.” The community was an apartment complex with gates that were locked. When the media said “gated community” wasn’t your first thought of some very wealthy people with tied up yachts and huge houses? Trayvon may have just wanted to get out of the house to talk to his girlfriend privately.
Only mentioned this because the story is screwed up ANYWAY, not by you necessarily, but we just don’t know. If the race-baiters keep it up, we’ll never know, because they’ll have Zimmerman hung before his story even GETS out.
I agree with most of what you say.
However, that Zimmerman may have been losing the fight does not in and of itself mean he did not also start the fight.
You are, of course, 100% correct about the media.
No, not necessarily. Most "gated communities" have gates that open and close with each person coming and going. This place (like most like it) is decorative at best. A kid could climb over that wall and I doubt those gates are ever closed. But it's all a guess as I do not live there.
Oh come on.
Z might not be the brightest bulb and maybe overzealous protecting the neighborhood and call cops, but people carrying concealed weapons, would rarely ever start a physical confrontation. I just don't see it.
I could be wrong, but I think when this all shakes out, you'll find Martin initiated the physical altercation.
“He was trespassing in a gated community.”
I haven’t been following too closely, but this isn’t what I have heard. Where did you hear this?
He had a right to be there, staying with his father who lived there.
One of the few things that is perfectly clear about this case is that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. --
On the first point, the inquiry is whether the person claiming self defense is in reasonable apprehension of unwelcome contact. Pursuit, in itself, may or may not give a reasonable person the right to hit you - generally it does NOT, without more.
But in addition to that, I think you make an error when you assume that the tables can't turn in this case, with Martin becoming the one in pursuit of Zimmerman. Zimmerman lost sight of Martin, and said (recorded on the call to dispatch) that he was going back to his vehicle. That sounds like pursuit broken off.
Said another way, it's possible, in a fairly short period of time, to have more than one confrontation.
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
More background on Norton Bonaparte, from a city where he used to work:
Post #129 has been removed by the moderator.
Sure they can climb over the wall but they do keep out the unauthorized vehicle traffic. Some gates are closed all of the time, some during the night only, and some never.
Thanks. The site is very helpful for giving background and texture to the situation.
And Martin would probably still be alive if any one of those people that called 911 would have gone out to help the guy they heard screaming for help for probably a full minute. (Based on how long you could hear him yelling on the 911 calls and knowing that he was yelling before the 911 call was made.) Zimmerman told the police that he yelled for help, but nobody would help him.
They all phoned it in and left it alone.
No crime had been committed, nor was one in progress.
Easier to say looking back at it from a couple weeks forward.
I think I saw that there HAD been some crimes in that community. As I envision the circumstances leading up to the shooting I think that Zimmerman was apparently somebody that seriously wanted to make the community he lived in a safer place to live. Spending his time doing the neighborhood watch thing, he paid a lot of attention to who he saw around in that community. When he saw a black guy that he had never seen before roaming around at night, he called it in. And then, since he really wanted to stop the crimes in the neighborhood and to give the police the best odds of being able to question that stranger, he did his best to try to keep him in sight. Martin started running away.
So we've got a stranger in the gated community that runs away when he's spotted. I can see how that would make Zimmerman even more suspicious that he had located the person that was committing crimes in his neighborhood. Yeah, looking back, you can say that no crime had been committed and that Martin had no criminal intent, but sometimes you just don't have the luxury of having a couple of weeks of hindsight to analyze the situation and play out how things might turn out bad, with you on your back getting your face punched in for a minute with nobody coming to your assistance, and ultimately wind up shooting the guy that was pummeling you.
Apparently this 6’4” thug had Zimmerman on his back vulnerable beating him. I would say that is attempted murder. You assume tavnporn is innocent gone wild .
apparently you are the one judging by appearance.
Zimmerman had a gash in the back of his head. That supports his claim of being attacked from behind as he walked back to his car.
The eye witness said Zimmerman was on the ground screaming for help as the Yoot was on top of him beating him into the ground.
Zimmerman had a broken nose.
Was he just walking home or was he trespassing? I’ve heard both versions. Do we know which is correct?
Thanks for the post. Unfortunately MSM will not do their job. People are too quick to make final judgements based on the lame stream of the MSM. The guy was a neighborhood watchman, what’s wrong with that, and he’s keeping an eye on this kid who appeared suspicious. He notifies 9-11 of the suspicious character. Basically he was doing something that Homeland Security has been preaching to us all along. It’s understandable that he’s keeping an eye on the kid until the arrival of the PD.
He was staying with his father and his father’s GF who lived in the complex.
Is the police report available to the public?
Could you educate us on that "ancient common law"? My understanding of historical conventions doesn't indicate much of a "duty to retreat".
Really? How come the police report says he was 6'0" and his friends/family say he weighed 140? His nickname was Slimm.
And, at 17 I was 6'1 and weighed 145....and I played football.
Removed because jerks keep posting pictures of gangstas who are not the Trayvon Martin who was killed.
The Moderator has laid down: Don't post pictures of a claimed Trayvon Martin without a live link to the original source.
Please keep posting that picture.
I guess that depends on how you define "doing their job".
If it is considered to be doing the typical drive-by thing, throw a rock at a hornet's nest and then move on to find other hornet's nests to stir up, they're doing an exceptionally GOOD job.
Post 51, bottom left, on this thread has the same photo.
If Zimmerman had a Muslim name and was an Islamist terrorist and if Trayvon was a young black Private First Class, President Obama would have told us to step back and NOT jump to conclusions. Alas, Zimmerman is a German-Jewish name and therefore, deserves to be lynched.
“There is zero evidence that Zimmerman prevented a potential crime, or that Martin had criminal intent.”
You could not be more wrong. There is strong evidence to believe that Martin attacked Zimmerman (criminal intent) and that Zimmerman prevented, not only a potential crime (Zimmerman’s murder), but an actual crime (Zimmerman’s beating).
How hard did you try? Did you look at thugs-r-us? It took me all of one minute to find his FB page which, as of last night was still up.
And, why are you saying that the net was scrubbed of pictures...what proof do you have of that? How many pictures of any 17 year old would you expect to see?
If you took your version of events before a court they wouldn't allow you to simply leave out the parts of the story you don't like. This has a beginning, a middle and an end...you skipped the beginning.
You assume tavnporn is innocent gone wild . apparently you are the one judging by appearance.
I assume no such thing. But nor do I assume Zimmerman couldn't have handled things better resulting in a less tragic outcome for all involved.
Well, if there is strong evidence then it should be really easy for you ti provide a link to it.....why don't you?
WOW. What a difference.
You are right. But "leaving it alone" has its costs to society too. After all why not just really "leave it alone" and ignore the woman screaming from the shrubs, or turn up the game on the TV when you hear gunshots outside. And no need to waste time, just tell the police officers you really didn't see or hear anything when they show up to investigate the body in the street.
There are neighborhoods where the residents "leave it alone" all the time. I doubt you would want to live in one.
Oh, and there is zero evidence that every mistake made by law enforcement officers prevents a potential crime either. I presume you wouldn't use that as a basis to recommend that law enforcement officers just "leave it alone" when they see something that is to them suspicious.
Yes, hardly the child the media is showing.
A few freepers have been knowingly re-posting it (and others). Your guess as to their motive is as good as mine.
Had Martin done any of those things you described, there would be no issue whatsoever. I would go even further and say that if it turns out Zimmerman saw Martin looking into parked cars or checking into people's backyards, then he would be completely justified in following Martin. But again, so far, there doesn't seem to be evidence of actual "suspicious activity" to warrant Zimmerman's decision to pursue Martin.
You are right. But "leaving it alone" has its costs to society too.
...as do poor decisions...and look what this one has turned into. Sharpton couldn't be happier.
Does the same hold true of the pictures of Zimmerman or is that another George Zimmerman?
Is this a picture of 17 year old Martin? Do you have a picture of the 17 year old Martin? Do you have any guess as to what ABC's movtive is to post this photo?
The initial impression for me is of a young child being killed by some guy who is pictured in what could be an orange jump suit that you usually associate with being in prison.
What does that have to do with knowingly posting false pictures?
You posted the pictures -- you tell me.
“However, that Zimmerman may have been losing the fight does not in and of itself mean he did not also start the fight.”
True. However, even if, big IF, he did start the fight there is no requirement that after starting a fight and in mortal danger that one is required to lay down and let someone kill you.
There are links all over FR and elsewhere. Video of witness, police report, etc. If you’re too stupid to see them, I can’t help you.
There’s a picture of him in his hoodie at Riehl World View which came from the Miami Herald, I think. Not the 13-yr old boy one; this hadn’t been photo-shopped yet.
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