Posted on 08/02/2015 7:44:26 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
Invading the North American mainland can be safely left in the realm of bad Hollywood films. And that's even today, with larger ships, jet cargo aircraft, and more people. While it makes for a great strategy, in the end, it's just a nonstarter. Why?
The Germans had no forward base in the New World. If they had seized Iceland, any of the French protectorates in the Caribbean, or northern South America, then an invasion, while still a stretch, could have been conceivable. Without forward bases to deploy to and from, an invasion isn't going to happen.
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
A militia of locals would have been created. I can’t imagine moving an invasion fleet that far.
The Japs invaded the Aleutian Islands for crips sake. The amphibious warfare capabilities of the IJN were superb.
And they got wiped out completely.
For Hawaii, you would need a 2-1 advantage at least which would be ~30,000 men. That’s a lot of ships. You are trying to sneak an armada across the Pacific.
And thanks to Lend Lease aid to the Soviets from the US, the Soviet army was better supplied from 1943 onward than the Germans on the Russian front. The US sent over 100,000 Studebaker trucks to the Soviet Union. These trucks enabled the Soviet army to out blitzkrieg the Wehrmacht. While the Germans had tanks and a tactical air force that could coordinate with each other, their infantry was largely not motorized. Their infantry depended on horse drawn supply support. With all the trucks the US sent to the Soviets, they were able to move troops and supplies to combat zones on trucks. They were able to hitch their artillery onto trucks and quickly move it to where it was needed on the battlefield along with the ammunition they needed.
Do you understand the logistics of invading an island 4,000 miles away. First, you need a force that is probably three times at least of the defenders. Second, you need to be able to establish a logistical supply line to support those forces and then occupy the territory. Finally, you must be able to defend your gains.
The Japanese were coordinating the attack of Pearl Harbor whiles they were moving against Southeast Asia and the Philippines. The objective of the attack was to cripple the US ability to intervene. They believed that the US would come to the negotiating table and sign an agreement given its weakened military state. Instead, they woke a sleeping giant.
Despite the ignominious defeat on December 7, 1941, it is worth noting the speed of the US response.
18 April 1942, The Doolittle raid, starting from Carrier "Hornet" with North American B-25B Mitchells, on Tokyo and Yokohama, Japan.
4 May 1942, (till 8 May). Japanese and American navies clash in the Battle of the Coral Sea. Japanese lost carrier "Shoho" and heavily damage carrier "Shokaku"; American lost carrier "Lexington", a tanker and a destroyer.
4 June 1942, (till 8 June) The Battle of Midway. Begin of the 4-day air-naval battle of Midway. In this battle of planes; Japanese lost carriers "Akagi", "Kaga" , "Soryu" and "Hiryu", American lost carrier "Yorktown", sank by a Japanese submarine.
7 August 1942, U.S. Marines land at Guadalcanal, the Solomon Islands. The American begin landings in the Solomons, troops gain footholds on Guadalcanal, Tulagi and Gavutu.
When the Guadalcanal campaign began, it was the first land offensive by the United States against any Axis power. It continued to be the only land offensive by the United States until the major Allied invasion of North Africa in November 1942.
So, just after 6 months after Pearl Harbor the US had blunted the Japanese naval threat to the Homeland and had gone on the offensive 8 months latter in the Pacific. In fact, Dolittle's raid 4 months after Pearl Harbor inflicted damage on Japan proper including two of its largest cities.
I never knew that, about US supplied trucks. Thanks for the lesson. The Japanese truly did wake a sleeping giant.
No doubt and it forced the Germans to move more forces to the Eastern front from the Western front and Germany.
The Philippines campaign should have waited for the invasion of Hawaii. Look, a lot of historians agree that Hawaii was finished and would have fallen easily to the Japs. They blew it big time. Good thing.
No, the Wehrmacht was diverted from Moscow by Hitler to take over Kiev first over the objections of the Wehrmacht generals. If the German army hadn't wasted time messing with Kiev, they could have take Moscow before winter.
The fact that our carrier force escaped helped shorten the time it took to defeat the Japanese who overextended themselves.
However by taking Moscow, it could have very well resulted in the collapse of the Soviet government, certainly Stalin was on thin ice as it was. Stalin made a lot of enemies, and once they overcame their fear of him, it would have been only a matter of time before Stalin got his, and new leadership took over. Who knows they may have even abandoned Bolshevism in order to unite the country against Hitler. Then we would have had the best-case scenario. No more Nazism nor Bolshevism.
Hitler absolutely wanted to take Moscow, because not only was it the capitol, it is a very important transportation hub. Without Moscow, the Soviets would have had a hard time shipping supplies and soldiers around, because all the railroads connect in Moscow.
Wow, the fact that the USN would have had to operate out of California ESCAPES you. Thank God you are not a military tactician.
What if Hitler had finished up in the west before starting in the east? There would have been no second front for the allies, actually would likely have been no western allies at all; the US would have been fighting the Japanese solo, but without the distractions of the Atlantic war, the African theater, the European theater, and putting all the resources into the defeat of Japan would have led to the earlier destruction of the Japanese naval and air forces, and an invasion of the home islands in 1944 -- because the nukes still would not have been ready before 1945.
Assuming everything else stayed the same. Had Admiral Nagumo not canceled the third wave of attacks on Pearl Harbor, there wouldn't have been dry docks and other support facilities left in Pearl Harbor that would have allowed the Yorktown to be repaired in 48 hours after limping in after receiving serious battle damage in the battle of the Coral Sea. The US would have only had 2 aircraft carriers at the start of the battle of Midway.
The story was reprinted as a hardcover book back during the Cold War, in an attempt to get the American public to take the Soviet threat seriously. I made a point of getting a copy then, even though I had read it in my father's subscription copy of Liberty.
It's still available from Amazon.
Odd how totalitarian monsters always go for citizens guns...
But the Soviets were receiving massive aid from the US that made their victories over the Germans possible. Getting over 100,000 2.5 ton Studebaker trucks from the US certainly improved the mobility of Soviet forces and allowed them to win the battle of Kursk.
At the time of the invasion, for all intents and purposes, he was finished in the West....he merely wanted Britain neutralized, which he did achieve, Britain alone was not going to defeat Germany. He figured in due time they would sue for peace, especially after victory in Russia.
But then the US entered the picture, and he had his two-front war.
You are responding to the response I was quoting.
The author doesn’t explain the point of his hypothetical.
The Germans couldn’t even get across the English channel.
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