Posted on 08/02/2015 7:44:26 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
“The German Army in fighting Russia is like an elephant attacking a host of ants. The elephant will kill thousands, perhaps even millions, of ants, but in the end their numbers will overcome him, and he will be eaten to the bone.”
—Colonel Bernd Von Kielst
He said this back when it looked like Barbarossa was going to be a rout for the Germans.
The forces in Hawaii at the time could not have stopped an invasion the size of the one sent 6 months later to midway. 4 battalions of Marines and one infantry division was not going to stop a Nip invasion.
Here’s some interesting analysis of a theoretical invasion.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/pearlops.htm
But the German advance had already stalled outside of Moscow a few days earlier. Almost a year earlier the Germans abandoned plans to invade Britain after the Luftwaffe failed to win the Battle of Britain. If Germany couldn't even manage to invade Britain with the US not a combatant, what makes the writer at Slate think they could handle a transoceanic amphibious assault of the US?
Germany already had a 2-front war with the allies with ground forced engaged against the Soviet Union and in North Africa. Where would Germany have found the forces available to add a third front in North America? Also consider, the British were reading German encoded messages and sharing them with the US via their Ultra program. Given that intelligence from Ultra helped the allies sink German supply convoys in the Mediterranean heading to North Africa, the US and Britain would have had a field day intercepting convoys heading towards the US.
We would have gone to war anyway. Britain declared War on Japan after Pearl, so any constraints on aiding Britain were gone. Eventually a U-Boat would have gone after our ships aiding Britain providing the Casus Belli for going to war with Germany.
The assumptions are wrong. I am saying the invasion starting on DEC 7th. Not waiting 6 months. The Jap plans should have included an invasion. Simple as that.
Nah. Hawaii is a long, long way from Japan and would have required a huge garrison to occupy and control all of the islands. They didn't have the logistic depth in their merchant marine to support that garrison at that distance. We wouldn't have sued for peace or sat on our hands, even if they had nailed our carriers then. We had a solid program for the Essex and Independence Class carriers already going, a massive training program immediately after Pearl Harbor for all of the requisite skills and the Marine Corps was ramping up quickly for amphibious warfare. Hawaii is much closer to the mainland US and we would have obliterated them if they got there.
What was stupid was Hitler expecting any help from Japan in their fight against the Russians.
If they could have pulled it off, sure, they should have invaded, but that analysis shows that even if they could have pulled it off, it would not have gained much for them, because they would have had to sacrifice their current operations in the Southwest Pacific.
I don't think the German "soldier" was better or braver on average.
Better trained, more disciplined, and better equipped. Their only problem was that there were too few of them, thankfully. They inflicted massive casualties on opposing armies. They just outran their supply lines and faced an enemy, the Soviets, who accepted an horrendous loss of life to achieve their objectives. It became a battle of attrition.
Most Americans believe that D-Day was the pivotal battle of the war, but Kursk was the downfall of the German military. It should be noted that British intelligence was able to discover the German plans for Kursk and informed the Soviets prior to the battle. I still have difficulty comprehending the size and scope of Kursk. The statistics are mind-boggling.
The defenses in Hawaii at the time were 4 battalions of Marines (1,500) and one Army Division (10,000). That was not enough to stop an invasion.
A jet plane were demonstrated for Hitler in the 30’s but he dismissed the whole idea.
I actually think if WWII veterans could see in 1941 what American would turn into - they would refuse to fight.
My dad, now departed, landed on Normandy. He saw the Clintons, Jimmy C, and finally O. His comments on all of them were “ and this is what so many of my friends/comrades died for”. No way did we ever envision that the America we fought to keep free would be this foolish.
dfwgator: The US would take over Canada in that case.
As part the Lend Lease agreement, the British handed over their bases in the Caribbean to the US. There's no way in Hell the US would have allowed Canada to become a neutral country though which the Germans could have staged an invasion of the US. We also wouldn't have allowed any French possessions in the Caribbean to be used by the Germans either.
“Two or 3 EMP weapons exploded over the US would result in total electrical power loss to the nation, “
Nope. The Soviets tried it over their land and it only blew one transformer.
And as I referenced above with St Pierre and Miquelon, neither would have the Free French.
The Soviets has the 76mm anti-tank gun which surprised the Germans who generally used 37mm guns. They immediately had to ramp up to the 75mm.
Ouch! Sorry!
Meant to refer to Germany which is, of course, west of Poland.
Losing an entire Army at Stalingrad because the idiotic decisions of a Corporal was a major blow as well.
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