Re:"Mal and Val - not Ann and the Old Man" Any evidence Valerie Sarruf is Obama's mom? (vanity)

Seizethecarp vanity commentary on Dr. Ron J. Polland youtube dated 08/07/11 ^ | August 1, 2012 | Seizethecarp (vanity)

[Seizethecarp]

"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland

The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.

In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.

Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?

Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.

For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!

Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.

For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.

The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?

In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.

Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.

[Seizethecarp]

“I wonder if he even knows the truth, his whole life is a lie”

It just occurred to me that if Barry told you on the same day that he was born in Mombasa and also told you that the man that he called “Pops” running the ice cream stand was his dad, then Barry must have internalized a narrative as of that day that would have integrated these two parts of his identity: Mombasa birth and Pops as dad.

Every child inquires about the circumstances of his/her birth, so Barry would have been told a story about HOW he came to be born in Mombasa and this story would have to include Pops as the dad in relation to his mom. That must have been some story!

[Fantasywriter]

‘I continue to regard the very strong resemblance of Barry to his half-brother David and Barry’s brotherly resemblance to Mark and George as an excellent indicator the BHO Sr. is most likely the real dad.’

Me too. Reporters who have actually sat down w Mark say the resemblance is overwhelming. If we’re supposed to go by such indicators [as people who note similarities, or supposed similarities to Malcolm X claim] then these people’s strong, documented firsthand impressions have to be taken into account.

[Fantasywriter]

‘Does BHO II bear a resemblance to BHO Sr., close enough to think that about 50% of BHO II’s DNA comes from BHO Sr.? From the photos we’ve seen, many, if not most of us, don’t think so. But again, it’s a subjective opinion.’

It’s not unusual for children to resemble a grandparent more than their actual parents. It would be interesting to see photos of Obama Sr.’s parents. Sibling, or half-sibling, similarities do count for something, though as you said, exactly how much is entirely subjective. DNA is the only dispositive indicator.

[WildHighlander57]

“...Even if the biological father is not the father of record for all legal actions the father of record is given preference in legal matters such as citizenship ...”

That would explain why O SR went to Hawaii in 1970/71.

He had to do paperwork of some sort, having to do with 0.

[WildHighlander57]

Look at the shape of the ears.

That is one characteristic that is used to ID people.

[Fantasywriter]

While I do agree w you about the ears, it’s a losing proposition to argue about it. Studying one or two infant/childhood images on the Net is no way to identify an adult. Sometimes people look at actual photos of the adult in question, & still can’t identify him (or even get his gender correct—much less whether he’s dead or alive).

The way to get to the bottom of the David question is to interview people who knew the Ndesandjos when the boys were growing up. The local newspapers can be consulted also. If David were a fictitious entity, someone would have blown the whistle by now. Instead, crickets. As contrasted by mentions of him in both of the region’s largest papers, as well as by those who actually interviewed friends & neighbors.

[hoosiermama]

It was shortly after this meeting that Maddy became guardian. In the same time frame she became VP of he bank and head of he trust escrow deparemt — they moved into the penthouse and enrolled 0 in private school. It would also be consistant with final distribution of her fathers estate which she was controlling officer. IMO the guardianship etc was done to make sure neither sr or Lolo could get their hands on he family fortune. Even his mother was skipped Aa guardian Maddy could take money from trust to pay for 0 housing , schooling or anything else he needed She would also benefit from the funds but in effect her grandfather was writing SADO out of the will Would be interesting to see if the lease on her appartment was in her name or as agent for the trust. We know the trust exists as 0 is still receiving income from it reported on schedule E of his taxes

[WildHighlander57]

Re #1722 also about reporters ...

In a south china morning post article, they interviewed mark, and there are pics and the captions underneath ID who it is.

http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1453192/other-obama

(mobile users : select desktop version and in next window, scmp dot com)

[RaceBannon]

no, I thought about this event many times over the years just because of the rarity of it, the complete surprise of meeting someone from a foreign land, so far away and so random that I would be there

I never forgot this event, I just never had any major reason to consider it until 2007-2008 as meaning anything important

[American Constitutionalist]

How about Valery Garret as Obama’s half sister ? ... nothing is out of the realm of possibilities with this guy.

[American Constitutionalist]

Fred ? how about Valery Garret as Obama’s half sister ? .... nothing is out of the realm of possibilities with this guy.

[Fred Nerks]

THE BIRTH OF ‘DAVID’

I remember how, a few days after my visit to Sarah’s, Auma and I happened to run into an acquaintance of the Old Man’s outside Barclay’s Bank. I could tell that Auma didn’t remember his name, so I held out my hand and introduced myself. The man smiled and said, “My, my-you have grown so tall. How’s your mother? And your brother Mark-has he graduated from university yet?”
At first I was confused. Did I know this person? And then Auma explained in a low voice that no, I was a different brother, Barack, who grew up in America, the child of a different mother. David had passed away. And then the awkwardness on all sides-the man nodding his head (“I’m sorry, I didn’t know”) but taking another look at me, as if to make sure what he’d heard was true; Auma trying to appear as if the situation, while sad, was somehow the normal stuff of tragedy; me standing to the side, wondering how to feel after having been mistaken for a ghost...

http://ilikeobama.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/barack-obama-dreams-from-my-father-49.html

[Fred Nerks]

There would appear to be a few major misunderstandings in what you write:

The INS FOIA docs are frequently quoted by Mal-Val cult believers when it suits them, especially revelation of the crossing out of the name Soebarkah just a few comments back on this thread.

When the INS documents are 'quoted' the information is always accompanied by a copy of the document, which you have the opportunity to investigate and critique. The name Soebarkah being crossed out had absolutely nothing to do with the INS docs, that was from her passport file. Stanley Ann had the name removed FROM HER PASSPORT in August, 1968.

The INS FIOA docs were retained for 50 years in a federal government repository and I have seen no credible evidence of forgery in any of the documents that have been obtained by several investigators. These documents DESTROY Barry’s father’s reputation and Barry’s foundational narrative in numerous ways which makes it highly unlikely that Barry’s Obots would have forged them to achieve destruction of his own narrative.

There has never been any contention of which we are aware, that any document in the INS file has been tampered with in any way since the documents were completed and handed in to the INS. The changes which were made and the 'corrections and additions' such as changes to the name of the 'wife' and the addition of the name of a child, were made BEFORE the documents were filed. Rather than 'achieve the destruction of his own narrative' these changes became the narrative.

Any claim by the Mal-Val cult members that Obots forged the INS docs to distract from a secret son of BHO Sr. born to an unknown mother who grew up to be a specific person, Roman Obama who is only 8 months older than Barry but claimed to be in pictures with Mark appearing to be 3 years different in age is unsupported by any evidence or REASON that I have seen and appears to be delusional, IMO.

That entire paragraph is delusional and simply shows how incapable you have been of following a simple progression of images showing the children and their various ages. Or it's a deliberate attempt to present something in such a garbled fashion that it's guaranteed no one will be able to follow it.

To the Mal-Val cult members on this thread, I implore you: REPENT!

I think I know who might be repenting when this is all over. There's no such thing as a Val-Mal Cult, there's only an anti-Val-Mal Cult, of which you are the dear leader.

Ann Dunham is named iStanley n the INS documents as specifically being impregnated by BHO Sr., living with her parents in Honolulu and intending to attend college in WA state ALL of which is corroborated by U of H and U of W transcripts and witness accounts, many of whom are living.

One Memo dated August 31, 1961, which miraculously names her and the boy and has its counterpart written in a hand other than the person who partly completed the form, two weeks after the miracle birth. The language you use Ann Dunham is named iStanley n the INS documents as specifically being impregnated by BHO Sr is really quite offensive, and as you have used similar language when asserting that it was Frank Marshall Davis...I'm of the opinion you are a bit of a vouyer, sir.

The 'transcript' which came to light supposedly from the U of WA is just a little iffy when you consider that it starts on September 19, 1961, and both Charlette Le Fevre, who says she 'found' Stanley Ann Dunham because Anna Obama was listed in the 1961 Seattle directory, placed her in Seattle in early 1962, as did Mary, after she realised that any child born in January 1961, as she first stated, would have been conceived while little Stanley Ann was still in high school.

As for the rest of it, what Zullo may or may not claim isn't any of my busines.

For the readers, I will post the items referred to in this comment in the next reply box.

[Fred Nerks]

August 9, 1961. He's married to someone crossed out and replaced with Ann S Dunham, but he doesn't have a child.

August 8, the Memo. Looks like Ann S Obama plans to enroll at the U of WA. Maybe that's ANNA OBAMA who shows up in the Polk in Seattle. There's good reason to ask if perhaps this same woman wasn't the Ann S Obama shown in the Honolulu directory also in 1961.

The same student perhaps, enrolled at the U of HI for Fall, 1960, who met the kenyan in a Russian Class?

Finally, he gets it all together:

In APRIL 1964, one month after the so-called divorce, he's 'legally separated' from Ann Obama, he knows the name of the child, who is here called jnr. But what might make one wonder is, why is the handwriting on that form not all the kenyans? Why does it look like someone else filled in the form - and was that done after he signed it? And why does the hand-writing look so much like the writing on the Memo?

[little jeremiah]

The top and bottom forms both have two different hands.

And who on earth would get the name of his wife wrong and have to cross it out and put another name in?

About repenting - the end is nigh!

:-)

[Fred Nerks]

The form with the two different handwritings is the one dated April, 1964. Some of that form was filled in by the kenyan, the remainder by someone else, but who and why? The 'divorce' was fanalized March 20, 1964. I don't plan to add any more to this, there are enough unanswered questions as it is.

[Fred Nerks]

If another hand can add information to an INS form, then it's equally possible there is an addition to that memo:

If you remove They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/1961 - Barack OBAMA II, child living with mother (she lives with her parents & subject resides at 1482 Alincastre St.)

It's a totally different story...

[Nero Germanicus]

What about those “Health Bureau Statistics” entries for the birth of a son to Mr. And Mrs. Barack H. Obama on August 4, 1961 that appeared in the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Sunday Advertiser and the August 14, 1961 Honolulu Star-Bulletin newspapers?

[Fred Nerks]

And how’s about you answer some of the anomalies I’ve been pointing out first?

Obviously doesn’t strike you as strange that the application for a birth certificate for a son of Mrs & Mrs Obama was lodged on the same day the death of the Sunahara child was announced...

[little jeremiah]

What does that last line mean? Some code?

Looks like some word beginning with “D” and then “D.D.D Y D.D. no name and [deny ext?]”.