[webber]

"Arminianism really has created for itself an irreconcilable problem when they assert that it is God's expressed will and desire to save all men."

Ahem!!!!! AGAIN: For God so love the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him shall not perish, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. God sent not His Son into the WORLD to condemn the WORLD, but that the WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.

That blows your religion out of the water.

[Frumanchu]

"You keep quoting that verse. I do not think it means what you think it means" (my apologies to Inigo Montoya)

[CCWoody]

"Arminianism really has created for itself an irreconcilable problem when they assert that it is God's expressed will and desire to save all men." ~ CCWoody

Ahem!!!!! AGAIN: For God so love the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him shall not perish, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. God sent not His Son into the WORLD to condemn the WORLD, but that the WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED. ~ webber

Ok, it seems that you too have no clue how to address an argument. I have already granted the Arminian that "they assert that it is God's expressed will and desire to save all men." If you don't believe me, then simply look at my words which you were kind enough to cite for yourself. So, continuing to throw a sea of verses at me in support of your position without addressing the scripture I brought forth to show that you are misinterpreting scripture is just plain silly. How old are you, anyway? From this perspective, you argue like I'd expect a 14 year old kid to argue.

Anyway, back to the point: I am perfectly capable of addressing the John 3:16 cite (and any other of your torrential downpour of thoughtless citations for that matter). After all, the assertion that the verse "whosoever believes on Him" somehow proves that every single man woman and child on the planet somehow has the natural ability to believe on Him makes about as much sense as asserting that when the Lord commanded the man with the withered hand to stretch it out proves that the man somehow had the natural ability to do so. Hopefully, you notice how silly you assertion is, but I'll not hold my breath.

However, I really have no intention of actually coddling you by addressing every single verse you throw around in your theological hissy fit. So, I'll use this verse as a means of demonstrating that my original assertion that...
• "Arminianism really has created for itself an irreconcilable problem when they assert that it is God's expressed will and desire to save all men"
is absolutely true.

To that end, I'll point out that John 3:16 is talking about the love that the Father has for the world. "For God [the Father]... gave His only begotten Son..." So, I'll grant you fully all the Arminian baggage that you force into the verse, among which that it is the Father's expressed will and desire to save all men everywhere without any exception and that to that end, He gave His Son so that we may all have everlasting life. Now, hopefully, you aren't like dangus, who in addressing my argument tells me that God will actually save all. No, that is the error of Universalism, vile and disgusting, for it declares the Revelation of John to be a lie. Of course, the Pelagianism that you force into the Scriptures isn't much better, but at least it is not a fatal heresy.

But, I digress. Now, since we have established that it is the Father's expressed will and desire to save all men everywhere without any exception and that to that end, He gave His Son so that we may all have everlasting life I find it interesting that the Son behaved in such a way so that it is impossible for the Father's will to be accomplished.


• And he said unto them, "To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all things be done in parables, that they seeing, may see, and not discern: and they hearing, may hear, and not understand, lest at any time they should turn, and their sins should be forgiven them.
  (Mar 4:11-12 GB)

Now, why is it that you are asserting that the Father intends the actual salvific redemption of the entire human race, past, present, & future when the Son was busy speaking in parables so that "seeing they may see and not discern, and hearing they may hear and not understand lest at any time they should turn and their sins should be forgiven them?" It is the same thing as to assert that the Persons of the Godhead are at war with each other. The Father's expressed will and desire is for their salvation, but the Son is actively working to prevent the will of the Father from being accomplished. Its like the Godhead is a bunch of feuding Grecian gods.

But, your problem is even worse than that.


• I Exhort therefore, that first of all supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, For Kings, and for all that are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life, in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who will that all men shall be saved, and come unto the acknowledging of the truth. For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, which is the man Christ Jesus,....
  (1Ti 2:1-5 GB)

Now, we have another passage, which you will assert is declaring that it is the expressed will of God to save all men. (See how nice I am granting you your assertions.) But, this passage is not the Person of the Father as is John 3:16; this passage is a reference to God our Savior Christ Jesus. This passage is asserting, granting you your assertions, that it is the expressed will and desire of the Son to save all. Yet, this same Person spoke in parables so that "seeing they may see and not discern, and hearing they may hear and not understand lest at any time they should turn and their sins should be forgiven them."

And, this is quite a conundrum that you have. The Son is actually acting contrary to His own will as well as the will of the Father. So, in addition to being a brat at war with dad, He is also suffering from a kind of schizophrenia. But, it gets better.

The thoughtless Arminian is actually denying the ontological NAME of God. Whereas God has declared to us "I am that I am," meaning that "I am what I have been" and "I will be what I am," the Arminian is declaring that God is not even faithful to Himself. This is a fundamental denial of the Most High Himself. It's like saying, "Well, the Father is faithful and true to the Godhead and the Holy Spirit is faithful and true to the Godhead, but that bratty Son is just out there thwarting the will of God."

That blows your religion out of the water. ~ webber

In your dreams. If you weren't being such a brat about this, you would plainly see just how harmful to the scriptures your doctrines really are.

Woody.

You might be an Arminian if...

Instead of actually addressing the argument and coming to grips with the truth, you decide that a campaign of the same thoughtless scripture posting combined with an emotional fit and a nice Ad Hominem or two would actually make you feel much better. Humming a few bars of "Just as I am" would also be soothing.