[Frumanchu]

You know, it really irritates me the way that Calvinists always think that the reason you don't agree with them is that you choose to ignore them, or you haven't read something simple. Understand this: I READ ROMANS 8 & 9. I THINK WHAT YOU PREACH IS A PERVERSION OF ITS MEANING that comes from your own ignorance. There are people (not necessarily myself) who know 1,000 times more on the subject than you do, who disagree with you.

There are people who know 1,000 times more on the subject than either of us, who agree with me. Is truth defined by majority opinion?

Please provide us with your understanding of those passages.

I don't see ANYTHING in Romans saying that God created people, knowing he would reject him, just so he could watch them suffer endlessly. It's simply NOT there. You're adding all sorts of interpretation to it so you think it says something it doesn't say. You're short-cutting loads of logic.

Neither do we, and neither have we ever said that God's purpose in creating people he knew would reject Him was to watch them suffer endlessly. You're putting words in our mouth, and barely knocking down the strawman at that.

[CCWoody]

Is truth defined by majority opinion? ~ Fru

No, you silly Proddy; it's defined by Papal opinion.

Woody.

[dangus]

Then tell me how you get predestination out of Romans 8 & 9!!!