Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone? [A Month Later]

drstevej

[drstevej]

Thread from last month...

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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone?
drstevej

Posted on 04/08/2003 12:29 PM CDT by drstevej

OBSERVATIONS:

[1] There seems to be a significantly reduced number of Protestant Threads (KJV Only being the exception for sure) in the FR Religion Forum.

[2] There seems to be a reduced number of FR Protestant posts in the Religion Forum.

This thread is a place to discuss these observations.

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Now the transformation to a Catholic Religion Forum is almost complete. Must be a Marian miracle or an answer to Jim Robinson's prayer, "Can't we all just get along?" Now all the dissent is within the RC fold ... NO Mass vs. Tridentine Mass. Boredom has descended, the moderators are free to nap without fear of an **** awakening them.

Could someone arrange for a funeral mass? (a clown mass in this case might be in order).

 

-- Pope Piel  I (thinking of abdicating prior to even assuming the Chair of Peter)

[malakhi]

Try post 268:

Took me a while to catch up on this thread. Most enlightening.

[huskyboy]

That would be novus ordo seclorum.

[SoothingDave]

A traditionalist Catholic should know the difference between the Sabbath and Sunday.

So, are you saying the Third Commandment requires us to keep holy Saturday?

No, I am saying that a well-founded, fed-on-the-Tridentine Mass, traditionalist Catholic should know better than to refer to Sunday as "the Sabbath."

This poor, never been to a Catholic Mass, NO fool knows that much.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Took me a while to catch up on this thread. Most enlightening.

Indeed. If this was the face of the Church, it's no wonder no one voted for Al Smith.

SD

[Aloysius]

I am saying that a well-founded, fed-on-the-Tridentine Mass, traditionalist Catholic should know better than to refer to Sunday as "the Sabbath."

I don't recall making that reference. Can you show me where I made it?

[malakhi]

Since I did not rebel against Her Majesty myself, I have nothing for which to apologize

So you are happy to enjoy the benefits of this rebellion, while feeling no obligation to "right" this "wrong".

[SoothingDave]

I am saying that a well-founded, fed-on-the-Tridentine Mass, traditionalist Catholic should know better than to refer to Sunday as "the Sabbath."

I don't recall making that reference. Can you show me where I made it?

Post 369:

You forgot the anticipated Mass at 5:30 PM Saturday. So much for keeping holy the Sabbath.

SD

[jt8d]

"Saudi Arabia is a monarchy. And yet, strangely, we prefer to live in the United States."

While it is true that Saudi Arabia is a "monarchy," that does not merit the distinction of a Catholic monarchy. When I refer to monarch, I presume that the distinction is known between those who worship God--the Father of Abraham, the Father of Issac, the Father of Jacob; to wit: I am stating that truth which comes to us through the liniage of David. Islam denies Christ, so I could no more respect the authority of an Islamic monarchy than I could repect the authority of a humanist secular democracy, such as is the United States. Both are contrivences of the devil.

Mohammed and his clan, while they may claim to be a Monolithic Theocracy, they do not worship the same God as do Jews and Christians. Islam is a cult, a false religion that was pieced together from Bedouin mythology and Catholic theology. Unlike the more prominant heresies, the heresy of Mohammed came from outside the Church, and that is one reason why it has persisted to this day.

I will presume that you are Jewish, and therefore you understand the liniage of the Arab people: that all their claims are based in envious rage because of the split between Essau and Ishmael.

[Aloysius]

The Third Commandment requires us to “keep holy the Sabbath day”. As you so eloquently pointed out, the Sabbath day and the Sunday are not the same. The Sabbath is the seventh day of the week, and is the day which was kept holy in the Old Law; the Sunday is the first day of the week, and is the day which is kept holy in the New Law.

As with all other Commandments, we are still required to keep holy the Lord’s day which is now Sunday. I never claimed Sunday was literally the same as the Sabbath. I referenced the Third Commandment, and you jumped to conclusions.

[malakhi]

It's a New Covenant vs. Old Covenant issue.

The seventh day is to be observed as the sabbath "throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant".

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He ceased from work and rested. (Exodus 31:16-17)

[malakhi]

A traditionalist Catholic should know the difference between the Sabbath and Sunday.

Well, you know that the Baltimore Catechism was written by Protestants...

[SoothingDave]

I referenced the Third Commandment, and you jumped to conclusions.

I see, you were using shorthand to reference the Commandment. My apologies.

SD

[Aloysius]

My apologies

No problem. Thank you for your apology. If you see any other deficiencies in my catechisis, it might be attributed to the fact that I was a Novus Ordo Catholic for 30 years and only recently found Tradition.

[SoothingDave]

If you don't mind my asking, what diocese are you in and what "pushed you over the edge"?

SD

[Aloysius]

If you don't mind my asking, what diocese are you in and what "pushed you over the edge"?

I was pushed over the edge in the Washington DC diocese. I was a devout Novus Ordo Catholic - never once missed Mass other than maybe 5 times in my life when I was sick. I was quite used to going to the Novus Ordo and rolling my eyes at the abuses. I was quite adept at devising ways of avoiding the Kiss of Peace. I often approached the priest after Mass and pointed out certain abuses as innappropriate for a Catholic Mass. By the grace of God and good Catholic parents, I was fortunate enough not to fall away from the Church as every single one of my childhood Catholic friends did. Also by the grace of God, I found the indult in DC at Old St. Mary's. The rest is history.

[SoothingDave]

I was quite used to going to the Novus Ordo and rolling my eyes at the abuses. I was quite adept at devising ways of avoiding the Kiss of Peace. I often approached the priest after Mass and pointed out certain abuses as innappropriate for a Catholic Mass.

Can you give some examples of the abuses you saw? The idea of expressing "peace" to our neighbors, no matter how inappropriate, is actually in the rubrics, isn't it?

I'm glad you have an indult available.

SD

[Aloysius]

Can you give some examples of the abuses you saw?

Altar girls before the Pope allowed them,

first Communion before first Confession,

trying to force children to recive Communion in the hand,

sexually explicit "Confirmation" training;

a drunk priest trying to get me to go into the confessional during Mass (that's what I get for standing in the back during Mass - but hey, that's OK at the Novus Ordo);

the use of Extraordinary ministers while the priest sits on his throne.

I could go on, but this is depressing that I spent at least a third of my life this way.

[american colleen]

It may surprise you that I agree with you in that the bogus "return to the practices of the early Christians" mantra is silly and overused and used on those of us who don't know any better as an excuse for innovation and ridding ourselves of "medieval" or "old fashioned" traditions.

But sorry, Communion in the hands was a practice in the early Church as was Communion on the tongue. St. Cyril of Jerusalem (313-386) counsels the Faithful to “make a throne of your hands in which to receive the King [in Holy Communion]”. This Father of the Church further counsels great care for any fragments which might remain in one’s hands, since just as one wouldn’t let gold dust fall to the ground so one should take even greater care when it is a question of the Body of the Lord - I found this on a Una Voce site, although it went on to explain the reasons/history of Communion on the tongue. Which I agree with. But I do not condemn those who do not agree with me (or you).

I mentioned Joseph the Visionary because his prayer happens to mention stretching out his hands to receive the Lord (in Holy Communion). Because a monk does not consecrate the host, and Joseph was not a priest, he was a monk, the practice of receiving in the hands was not unheard of in 750 AD, as evidenced by Joseph's writing.

I love Belloc, but he was not the pope.

That is why the Mass was codified through the three major doctrinal Councils: Hippo, Nicaea, and Trent.

How could the Mass have been codified at Hippo and then re-codified at Nicaea and then re-codified again at Trent? And why is it horrifying to codify it at Vatican II but not at Hippo, Nicaea, and Trent?

[american colleen]

Do you like the Novus Ordo on EWTN?

[B-Chan]

So you are happy to enjoy the benefits of this rebellion

Yes; I also suffer its liabilities.

I am an American. I was born here. This is the country God gave me, and I support it wholeheartedly as required by my faith. That support in no way conflicts with my belief that Christian monarchy is the best form of government for Christians.

...while feeling no obligation to "right" this "wrong".

Things are as they are. Right or wrong, the rebellion that created this country occurred; since my Christian duty is to loyally support the country I was born in, I am therefore a patriot. While I do not advocate monarchy for the United States of America as it exists today, I do advocate the restoration of Christian monarchy in those countries where it has been replaced by so-called popular government.