Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone? [A Month Later]

drstevej

[drstevej]

Thread from last month...

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Where Have All the FR Protestants Gone?
drstevej

Posted on 04/08/2003 12:29 PM CDT by drstevej

OBSERVATIONS:

[1] There seems to be a significantly reduced number of Protestant Threads (KJV Only being the exception for sure) in the FR Religion Forum.

[2] There seems to be a reduced number of FR Protestant posts in the Religion Forum.

This thread is a place to discuss these observations.

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Now the transformation to a Catholic Religion Forum is almost complete. Must be a Marian miracle or an answer to Jim Robinson's prayer, "Can't we all just get along?" Now all the dissent is within the RC fold ... NO Mass vs. Tridentine Mass. Boredom has descended, the moderators are free to nap without fear of an **** awakening them.

Could someone arrange for a funeral mass? (a clown mass in this case might be in order).

 

-- Pope Piel  I (thinking of abdicating prior to even assuming the Chair of Peter)

[ultima ratio]

"These were not 'abuses;' but rather the planned outcome."

I agree. The progressives--of whom the present pope was one--desired to destroy Catholic Tradition. It was intentional.

[jt8d]

So then, you imply by that remark that God is not omni-present, omni prescient, and omni-potent?

[St.Chuck]

Neither Christ nor his Apostles ever endorsed any kind of rebellion, revolution, or tea party against the corrupt, pagan Roman Empire; how, then, can we?

The republic is safe from this crowd....er...I mean these two.

[jt8d]

The Holy Trinity makes perfect sense. Think of the Trinity along the lines of being similar to water--same substance, three phases, one identity. Water as ice, water as liquid, and water as vapor are all still water, but each one possesses different characteristics. All are one in the same, three phases, one substance. That is how I resolved the concept in my own mind.

[jt8d]

Actually, Luther was not the initiator of Communion in the hands. Arianism (300 AD) denied Our Lord's full Godhead combined with an admission of all His other attributes, and thus making Him a creature. Arianists instituted the practice of receiving Holy Communion in the hand, so as to be a method of publicly exercising the heresy w/o actually speaking the heresy.

[jt8d]

I would very much wont to post that document; however, to do so would have me booted off this thread. The thing is fully seventeen pages--one-sided, but single-spaced! I have not performed a word count, but would hazard a guess of greater than 10,000. The point is that while posting would make my remarks fully clear and in context, who here would dare make the attempt to read the entirety without making rebuttals every other sentence? With your permission, I may post sections privately, but you must respect copyright.

[dsc]

"Most people cannot bear the thought of submitting their own precious wills to any authority other than their own nerve endings. That sort of prideful ersatz "freedom" is at the root of the problems facing the Church (and humanity as a whole) today."

And wasn't it the root of Original Sin as well? Didn't the serpent tell Eve, "You shall be as gods."?

[B-Chan]

Yes. You're right on the money. Pride, the Original Sin, is at the root of all our problems. It started with Lucifer's haughty non serviam, and continues today as "Nobody's gonna tell me what to do!" Throughout all history rebellion -- Mankind's quest for the "freedom" to determine for himelf what is right and wrong -- leads only to chains and Hell, yet we persist in believing that we can be as gods. No wonder Jesus cried at the gates of Jerusalem, "How often would I have gathered you under my wings as a hen gathers her chickens, but you would not!"

God is our Father. He loves us. Instead of sneering in contempt at Him like rebellious teenagers, we should all strive to be the good, obedient children He wants us to be. But, no, that would be too embarassing, too grovelly, too un-American! No one's gonna keep us from killing our babies, make us go to some boring church, or keep us from discarding our wives and husbands and children and parents like used shoes! God can't be God, because He won't let us have our precious divorces, abortions, or live-in girlfriends!And so we go on with the farce of self-satisfaction, all too eager to listen to the lie that we are wise enough to rule ourselves. If the results weren't so heartbreaking they'd be almost comical.

Christianity is a religion of submission, not pride. Only by killing our selfish desire to run our own lives can we be reborn as new creatures in Him. Our role as Christians living in a pagan society is to be salt and light; rebellion is Satan's game.

[nickcarraway]

bump

[dsc]

Questions?

Uh...can I quote you?

Joking aside, you did a really good job with that. I'd like to tuck it away for later plagiarism.

[Tantumergo]

"They are on the boats before dawn and there was no Mass for them, so...it became a Mass of convenience for everybody else."

Couldn't we describe all Christians as being fishers of men? ;)

[drstevej]

Question: When did Luther institute communion in both kinds and why did he delay?

[Longshanks]

How can you prefer the Latin Mass if you've never been to one?

The Latin Mass is the Mass of Saints. The Novus Ordo era has been four decades of retreat and scandal. With what Mass would you rather associate?

For the record, I still mostly attend the NO because our modernist bishop will barely allow the Latin Mass but I know its days are numbered. I eagerly await the day when the REAL Mass is fully restored.

[Longshanks]

The only natural progression we see on this board is the normal condition of Catholic pomposity and arrogance.

It may seem that way, but only because traditional Catholicism is the only religion 100% consistent with literal truth.

[Tantumergo]

Not for the first time, Ratzinger has issued apparently contradictory teaching. This is what he had to say on the subject in 1985:

"....In order to justify [his position], L. Boff appeals to the constitution Lumen Gentium n.8 of the Second Vatican Council. From the Council's famous statement, "Haec ecclesia (sc. unica Christi ecclesia) Catholica subsistit in ecclesia Catholica ( This Church---namely the sole Church of Christ---subsists in the Catholic Church) he derives a thesis which is exactly contrary to the authentic meaning of the council text, for he affirms: 'In fact it (sc. the sole Church of Christ) may also be present in other Christian churches' (p.75). But the Council had chosen the word subsitit---subsists--exactly in order to make it clear that the ONE SOLE "SUBSISTENCE" of the true Church exists, whereas outside her visible structure only 'elementae ecclesia'--elements of the Church exist: these being elements of the same Church tend and conduct toward the Catholic Church (Lumen gentium 8). The decree on ecumenism expressed the same doctrine (Unitatis redintegratio 3,4) and it was restated in Mysterium Ecclesiae." ---(U.S. Catholic Conference Documentary Service, April 4, 1985, Vol. 14, No. 42, pp 685, 686"

He clearly affirms Catholic doctrine here by noting that there is "one sole subsistence" of the Church which exists ONLY in the Catholic Church and consequently only "elements of the Church" can exist outside her visible structure. This latter is self-evident as even Feeneyites admit that pagans can validly baptise.

"when he uses the phrase "the Church" he means something broader than "the Catholic Church." He means the "Church of Christ" which includes, according to him, the Orthodox churches and other Christian bodies."

This is not at all evident from the context of the quote you have given. He means something broader than the "Roman Catholic Church" which again is self-evident. The Church also consists of about 20 different Greek Catholic Churches. If he did mean to include non-Catholic bodies, then I would have to disagree with him.

[Desdemona]

BUMP

(next time, tell us how you really feel. ;))

[Revelation 911]

Rev911: The only natural progression we see on this board is the normal condition of Catholic pomposity and arrogance.

Longshanks: It may seem that way, but only because traditional Catholicism is the only religion 100% consistent with literal truth.

........providing we divine only literalism from Scripture and embellish it with extra biblical papacy, mary worship, idol worship etc..

....you illustrate my point well

best regards

[Revelation 911]

***Won't you be surprised when I become Pope***

Hey I can across this on google - would be handy for the crusades

The Popeil Pocket Siege Cannon

In 1972 after the unprecidented success of the
Popeil Pocket Fisherman, and later the very dangerous
and uncomfortable Popeil Codpiece Fisherman,
Ron Popeil, in a stroke of sheer genius, designed
and marketed the Popeil Pocket Siege Cannon .

This dangerous piece of artillary, modeled after
the 15th century Dulle Griete of Ghent, the 13 ton
smoothbore siege engine, was an immediate
hit until problems and accidents started happening .

Exaggerated advertising claims such as
"Sack your neighbor's home in one shot"
were misleading as it sometimes took two shots .
And the statement announced with bold confidence
"Your neighbor will be amused as you sack his toolshed"
was simply a lie .

If you or your loved ones have been hurt or
injured by the Popeil Pocket Siege Cannon
or found it not in compliance with its advertising
please help by reporting your problems and experiences .

Examples of reported problems
Cannon failed to create a sufficiently large breach
in neighbor's house before he became suspicious and
retaliated with the Ronco Rolling Pile of Flaming Logs .

Your four season porch became a one season rock garden
when you miscalculated the direction of fire .

You had difficulty finding 1 ton siege stones
of adequate roundness and durability to withstand
the flight across the adjoining driveway
without leaving an incriminating trail of rubble .

Your 69 Chevy Malibu became a convertible when
a stone failed to achieve necessary loft .

Someone you love, ironically short to begin with,
inadvertently and unfortunately fired it straight up .

Pants pockets were badly stretched out of shape
by the massive bulwarks and recoil pilings
when you accidently ran it thru the laundry .

Cannon accidently went off in your pocket resulting in
a long difficult search for your legs and feet .

Occasional firing of grape shot stained your carpet .

Your cat, known for it's tendency to crawl into round
hollow spaces, has been missing since your last siege .

You suffered mental anguish when people said
"are you happy to see me"
"or do you have a siege cannon in your pocket?"
and you had to admit you weren't happy to see them .

---

Manos D Anzofate, April 18, 1997

[Corin Stormhands]

It may seem that way, but only because traditional Catholicism is the only religion 100% consistent with literal truth.

You know, you pretty much just proved his point.

[drstevej]

LOL. We'll have to be careful what we offer in the Pope Piel papal gift shoppe.