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To: Corin Stormhands
But I cannot get beyond the point that Calvinism tells me that God wanted Satan to rebel. I'm told He could have stopped it if He wanted to, but He didn't.

i am not certain that Calvinism tells you so much as the bible tells you that. i'm not even certain that Satan's fall is even so much of an Arminian/Calvinist discussion. We do know from the revelation of scripture that Angels do not have the same opportunity for redemption as mankind. In that sense, the Attonement of Christ IS truly limited, i don't think that there is any dispute about that matter.

Now to address your question.

There are a good many things in our own physical world that we don't understand and can't understand. ftD refers with contempt to a 'secret will' of God, and in a sense, he is quite correct. We see (on the monitors) a lot of nonsense written about decreeitive will, salvific will, permissive will, etc. This is nonsense, there is ONLY the Will of God. That God has a will is a matter of revelation to man. The EXTENT of that will is also a matter of revelation. This question goes beyond Arminianism/Calvinism too. An honest examination of scripture determines that there are and will continue to be matters of God that we cannot know, and will not know. We will not, for example, know the exact time that Christ will return until it happens, and Jesus explicitly stated that it was not for us to know. Do a search on the words 'secret' and mystery, (same word in the Greek), and you will see this.

For that matter, we don't even know if Satan's fall was even a matter of 'will' of either God or Satan...i will not proceed any further on this line of thought as it leads into docetic gnosticism. i don't know that we can know. One is looking at a situation that deals with the mind of an infinite God. Even in my glorified body and redeemed soul/spirit, i do not expect that i will ever know. We build our theological models on what is revealed. i do know that

1)God is holy and will not tolerate sin
2)Sin did enter the creation
3)Sin is not part of God's nature
4)God limits the extent of sin, and it is compelled to do nothing more or less than serve His purpose
5)Sin will be done away with

It is the How and Why questions that we cannot get a complete answer to. IMHO, the only alternative is atheism, and that is self-refuting.

i am sorry that i cannot provide a better answer, but i am stuck with my limits

324 posted on 03/17/2003 7:32:41 PM PST by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (Resolution?...We don't need no steenking resolution!)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Corin Stormhands
3)Sin is not part of God's nature 4)God limits the extent of sin, and it is compelled to do nothing more or less than serve His purpose</font color>

This is what Arminians have a hard time with IMHO..God is the restrainer of Sin...without His intervenbtion the world would be a place no mon would be safe in.

.   Rom 1:29   Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,   
  Rom 1:30   Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,   
  Rom 1:31   Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
     Rom 1:32   Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

They think man is "good" and some outside force has to make them do evil. it is not what the word of God teaches..

331 posted on 03/18/2003 9:21:47 AM PST by RnMomof7
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