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To: Frumanchu
Arminius believed in absolute foreknowledge, therefore,you are correct that the analogy also fits arminianism.

Some advocate viewpoints that I see as inadequate

One viewpoint has God authoring this plan as if He doesn't have foreknowledge. To them it is just straight-up decisiveness. It's 100% decree.

Another is that God authors this plan as if He isn't reflective. To them He simply knows everything and based his decisions on other people's future decisions.

I believe his foreknowledge, reflection, and decisiveness worked in concert.

310 posted on 03/17/2003 8:44:17 AM PST by xzins (Babylon, you have been weighed in the balance and been found wanting!)
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To: xzins
Arminius believed in absolute foreknowledge, therefore,you are correct that the analogy also fits arminianism.

Xzins absolute foreknowlege IS Predestiantion.

The problem is that most look at God like he is a man and not the author of all events.

God can prohibit any event that is outside of His plan. If he did not want Corins daughter to become pregnant (as in his example) she would not become pregnant..If God did no plan to have the twin towers destroyed they would not have been..

Even the sinful acts of men are subject to His authority

311 posted on 03/17/2003 9:24:21 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: xzins; nobdysfool; RnMomof7
I believe his foreknowledge, reflection, and decisiveness worked in concert.

I think that's a fairly accurate position. I think God's foreknowledge works on different levels. Obviously unless one is an open theist it is agree that God knows everything that is going to happen from creation to judgement (not just what could, but what IS). That overall foreknowledge encompasses both God's actions and ours. God knows what He's going to do and what we are going to do. God's foreknowledge also works at lower levels. God knows that you will act a certain way when He does a certain thing (not just if, but WHEN). It is this knowledge that allows Him to act sovereignly within the universe without being the author of evil. "You meant it for evil but I meant it for good." This speaks to me a great deal regarding how limited our vision and perception is in what we do. Clearly in the statement God's intentions and our intentions are at odds, and yet look whose intentions ultimately win out. Also to note is that it doesn't say that He 'allowed' it for good, but that He 'meant' it for good. This goes back to what I said earlier about active permission versus passive permission.

313 posted on 03/17/2003 10:32:38 AM PST by Frumanchu (mene mene tekel upharsin)
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