George Bush's Theology: Does President Believe He Has Divine Mandate?

Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life ^ | February 12, 2003 | Deborah Caldwell

[Polycarp]

if you were banned, why are you here again?

There is a little justice yet this side of heaven...

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

How it going polycarp? :)

BigMack

[Domestic Church]

I don't think he's been spared the "just war" anguish by being thrown out the FR window. There is little that would totally suppress such for Catholics except prayer, given the scandal whirlwind American Catholics have been through and the current releases on the war coming from Rome.

[al_c]

But then, you Catholics have your own Bible with uninspired books and don't consider it a one authority.

Q: How many books of the Old Testament are found in Guttenberg's printed Bible?

A: The same number that are in any Catholic Bible today -- 46 Old Testament books plus the 27 New Testament ones, for a total of 73 books (a much more spiritual number than the Protestant canon of 66 books ;-). The Guttenberg Bible -- the first Bible ever printed -- was a Catholic Bible (in fact, the Protestant Reformation had not even happened yet), and the number of books in Catholic Bibles has been the same ever since the Bible was first canonized at the Council of Rome in A.D. 382 under Pope Damasus I.

Here's the link to this info

[eastsider]

You have written Finis

[al_c]

But then, you Catholics have your own Bible with uninspired books and don't consider it a one authority.

Q: How many books of the Old Testament are found in Guttenberg's printed Bible?

A: The same number that are in any Catholic Bible today -- 46 Old Testament books plus the 27 New Testament ones, for a total of 73 books (a much more spiritual number than the Protestant canon of 66 books ;-). The Guttenberg Bible -- the first Bible ever printed -- was a Catholic Bible (in fact, the Protestant Reformation had not even happened yet), and the number of books in Catholic Bibles has been the same ever since the Bible was first canonized at the Council of Rome in A.D. 382 under Pope Damasus I.

Here's the link to this info

[ultima ratio]

Two points. First, I never gave a hoot whether Catholicguy engaged me in discussion--mainly because his idea of civilized discourse was to hurl verbal bombs. The idea that he "afforded me an opportunity to voice" my opinions is silly on the surface. He was not in charge of this site and had nothing to do with what I said. In fact, he often crossed the line with vicious ad hominem attacks and I'm glad he's history.

Second, it's easy to blame Bubba for the present international messes since he was too busy with Monica to look after national security. For example, there are numerous documents from Sudanese intelligence officials that show they offered Bubba information on the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden. Unfortunately, he wasn't the least bit interested. It was Bubba, too, who gave North Korea the technology to build light water nuclear reactors in exchange for a promise to behave. It was also Bubba who gave our long range missile launch secrets to China in return for campaign contributions--an act tantamount to treason. The truth is, Bubba never did anything on his watch but kick the can forward--i.e., pass problems onto other administrations to deal with. His was the presidency, remember, that denied our troops protective cover in Somalia--and his was the presidency that turned-tail in the face of the mighty Haitians. It was Bubba also who allowed Iraq to kick out inspectors with impunity and to proceed to build up its store of weapons of mass destruction. So give me a break. Clinton's presidency was not only corrupt, it was absolutely inept and some think even treasonous.

[al_c]

Oops ... sorry 'bout the double post. Don't know what happened.

[Matchett-PI]

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[Polycarp]

You'd better hope to hell not.

Actually, I could manage quite well, thanks. I have worked in factories, retail sales, carpentry, construction, I've been a bouncer and an appliance deliveryman, and I'm quite a good gardener when I want to be.

I could live with a little hardship if that's what it took to uproot the culture of death and return this country to its Christian roots. It looks as though only Divine Intervention will straighten out the moral sewer this once great nation has become.

[ultima ratio]

The claim that this site is anti-Catholic is ridiculous. Catholicguy deserved what he got. He engaged in ad hominem attacks that crossed the line of decency more often than any other individual.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Oops ... sorry 'bout the double post. Don't know what happened.

2 bad posts and 1 to say you're sorry, what a waste of bandwith, you should be ashamed.

:)

BigMack

[yendu bwam]

Second, it's easy to blame Bubba for the present international messes since he was too busy with Monica to look after national security.

No one bears more blame for 9/11 and our deplorable world vulnerabilities than Bill Clinton. In short order, he 1) sold out our nuclear secrets to China; 2) appeased Saddam Hussein by completely giving up on the inspections process; 3) ordered pinprick operations against Osama bin Laden, for domestic political consumption only, while letting the madman organize and prepare 9/11 (and failed to identify and fight true evil); 4) entered into a paper-only appeasement agreement with North Korea, and was stupid enough to trust the North Koreans (or more likely, didn't, but just foisted the problem to the next president). We are in grave danger today because of Bill Clinton. He was the most feckless and cowardly president we've had in my lifetime. It does indeed border on treason.

[yendu bwam]

I could live with a little hardship if that's what it took to uproot the culture of death and return this country to its Christian roots. It looks as though only Divine Intervention will straighten out the moral sewer this once great nation has become.

Me too and I agree, Polycarp!

[Polycarp]

Cute. On par with your usual anti-Catholic histrionics.

[.45MAN]

ping.

[Desdemona]

The other thing Bubba did was completely decimate our intelligence capability rather than quadrupling it, like should have happened. There is no really good way to tell what's truly going on without it. In intelligence, you can't trust anybody.

[BlackElk]

We have a rarity here. Sinkspur's right and Catholicguy is wrong. The foreign policy views you are espousing, CG, are more likely to come from the usual gang of SSPX suspects than from Catholic Americans. If SSPX is often wrong, so also are those who always desperately search, on behalf of "Peace and Justice Commissions" of AmChurch, to find something, anything wrong with the projection of American power in the world. Roger Cardinal Etchegarry was a very poor excuse for a cardinal before going to schmooze with Saddam. Our Church has its own interest in the situation in that there is an entire rite of the Catholic Church (the Chaldean) which is headquartered in Iraq and, on the sole condition of no Jesuits, has all of its bills and salaries paid by Saddam Hussein's government. This does not excuse toleration of Saddam Hussein.

We may be Catholics but we need not be total gluttons for punishment by volunteering to defend the morally indefensible.

Career CIA analysts got Fidel Castro his job along with the New York Times. Career CIA analysts are not infallible and neither is Pope John Paul II on matters of politics or foreign policy. I understand that there are moral considerations to war but, just as his opposition to the death penalty is not dogmatic, neither is his prudential decision as to war between the US and Iraq. Consider also that he maintains much better relations with Muslim countries than does the US and maintains alliances in favor of the culture of life in that fashion.

There is much more to this situation than meets the eye.

[ultima ratio]

I must agree with you. How could this be about oil? The war with Iraq will cost us up to 100 billion plus. Do these people realize how much oil this would buy? In point of fact, it is the French and Germans who have taken the stances they have taken for the sake of countless illegitimate commercial contracts with Iraq on terms incredibly favorable to the French and Germans.

[yendu bwam]

So, having been attacked, not once, but multiple times, can someone in clear, concise terms explain to me how neutralizing a dangerous dictator violates the Just War Doctrine?

It doesn't. If a madperson has killed many, has several loaded machine guns, wants to kill you and your family, and is stalking in your neighborhood (as Hussein et al have the capability of doing by transporting their weapons of mass destruction), you have the obligation to go out and to try and protect your loved ones from an attack of unrepentant evil.