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To: yendu bwam
If you took a look at our American bishops, collectively, and averaged their beliefs together, what would their rating on the heresy scale be today, in your opinion?

Oh geez, I don't know....

Maybe there is a corollary in here somewhere. During the period of the Arian heresy, large groups of people were baptized without knowing what the Faith was all about. Arianism was a heresy that concerned THE central mystery of Christianity, namely, the Blessed Trinity - that the One True God is the Eternal Father and His only-begotten and Eternal Son and the Holy Spirit. Arianism tried to "naturalize" (under Gnostic influence) this Divine mystery by subordinating the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit to the Father such that only the Father is really God, and the Son and Holy Spirit in essence are creatures. Our Faith then completely falls apart.

Just about all the bishops in the East were for Arius. The Pope wasn't. Case closed.

Today? In America? I understand that Western Europe is much worse. The concept of baptized unbelievers has been raised by Cardinal Ratzinger.

Hopefully, newer Orders and seminarians and bishops - and us, the laity - will renew the Church here in America to orthodoxy in the Faith. Maybe the Church is in a process of "weeding out" right now so that it will be smaller but stronger in the future - stronger to re-evangelize the world and America.

As an example, last year my parish priest told me that he didn't believe Christ was born of a virgin, because that would have dampened people's understanding of the holiness of sexuality.

Not only is your priest wrong, he has it backwards. The holiness of sexuality is highlighted in virginity when practiced properly in context of the virtue of chastity. It is precisely in our failure as a Church to teach and live chastity and the other virtues that sexuality (as a function of Love) loses it's holiness and ability to generate not only physical life, but spiritual sacramental life as well.

I think it is fair to say that heterodox teachings and the scandals that have come out this past year are clearly linked. Holiness is, and always has been, the issue. Members of the Church, clergy and laity, lack it today and have been deceived to ignore it. Give the devil his due. Mediocrity and banality have become many a Catholic's ideals for the Church (the Liturgy, for example). These lead quickly to indifference, and I think that is where most of the "non practicing" Catholics I meet and know are at. They never really have been taught or learned the Faith in an orderly manner and slowly drift away on the changing winds of the time and secular society. Hence, their only reflections on the Church are in terms of political structures complete with all the various social agendas out there. I believe this is the real damage being done to the Church by the attacks of satan. All of society, the world in fact, is affected. If this continues, the situation could become much worse before getting better. Many reported apparitions of recent times do talk of possible coming chastisements.

Right now, I don't know, overall, a 2.5-3.0 on the richter scale? Could quickly get worse, but then again, there is a new younger generation coming up. Many in this generation are, for all practical purposes, no longer Catholic and need to be evangelized. The ones that remain in the Church are excited and orthodox and will take the challenge of Grace and Holiness to the world. My hope is in them. The scandals of late can be a blessing in disguise to straighten the Church out. Just my reflections.

Overall, it is hard to tell because the heretical influences are not uniform across the land. I've been around what I consider "liberal" priests and nuns, but not nearly to the point you describe. With them wasting so much time on silly agendas that are not shared by the vast majority of Americans and depending on gimmicks to try and excite people, particularly the younger generation, they don't have time, or rather are scared because it might offend, to teach and practice the deep spiritual treasures of our Faith coming from our Lord. They give homilies which, while not heretical, would not offend the ACLU if given at a public school. It's as if you have to give yourself a mental lobotemy and become a dense little child in Church to not offend them with their games.

The Faith begins at home, the domestic Church, if you will. Make sure you teach and practice your Faith as a witness to your children and allow them to respectfully understand why Father X and Sister Y are wrong in saying this and that and in doing that and this. Pray with them. It sounds like as they grow older, it is going to have to be your orthodox witness which sustains and leads them to the correct 'Way'.

79 posted on 02/06/2003 12:25:32 PM PST by TotusTuus (...Most Holy and Blessed Trinity, One in substance and undivided.)
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To: TotusTuus
Hopefully, newer Orders and seminarians and bishops - and us, the laity - will renew the Church here in America to orthodoxy in the Faith. Maybe the Church is in a process of "weeding out" right now so that it will be smaller but stronger in the future - stronger to re-evangelize the world and America.

The Church cannot be in bed with society, and still be authentically Catholic. I would take smaller any day, if in return we could have priests and bishops who courageously proclaim authentic Catholicism. For many years, I have noticed a great stress placed on 'numbers' - how many parishioners, how much money, how many Catholics in the country, etc. This is a terrible mistake, and gives many bishops the idea that success is based on such. Better to boldly proclaim the faith, and let the numbers take care of themselves. The other huge problem, of course, is those in leadership positions who hold heretical ideas. This is particularly vicious in the area of sexual morality - and is one of the prime reasons the Church is suffering from the incredible cancer of homosexual molestation of teenage boys. When I see, from another thread, that 42 Catholic colleges will, this year, allow the play 'Vagina Monologues' to be shown, in which lesbian sex and teenage (lesbisn) molestation are glorified, I know that if we are on the way to a renewed orthodoxy (I hope), it has only just begun.

80 posted on 02/06/2003 2:20:10 PM PST by yendu bwam
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To: TotusTuus
Not only is your priest wrong, he has it backwards. The holiness of sexuality is highlighted in virginity when practiced properly in context of the virtue of chastity. It is precisely in our failure as a Church to teach and live chastity and the other virtues that sexuality (as a function of Love) loses it's holiness and ability to generate not only physical life, but spiritual sacramental life as well.

Beautifully stated. I would give a lot to hear my parish priest say such - and to have faith that the Church's priests could be relied upon to teach such to my children.

81 posted on 02/06/2003 2:22:23 PM PST by yendu bwam
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To: TotusTuus
The Faith begins at home, the domestic Church, if you will. Make sure you teach and practice your Faith as a witness to your children and allow them to respectfully understand why Father X and Sister Y are wrong in saying this and that and in doing that and this. Pray with them. It sounds like as they grow older, it is going to have to be your orthodox witness which sustains and leads them to the correct 'Way'.

Yes, it will. I wish the Church hierarchy were a greater ally in this process. Thanks, TotusTuus, for your valuable thoughts.

82 posted on 02/06/2003 2:25:25 PM PST by yendu bwam
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