Posted on 02/03/2003 10:35:11 AM PST by cantfindagoodscreenname
Edited on 04/29/2004 2:02:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
off-the-cuff remarks of a single priest
who happens to be "Father Peter Fleetwood, a Vatican official who worked on the document" [a document of 'New Age' spirituality]
The obelisk was determined to be a reminder of the persecution about 250 years after the vatican purchased it. How convenient. Don't worry OHelix, Wideawake can't make it thru the day unless he or she can call somebody a bigot.
I think it's a diversionary tactic if I suggest evidence to support my view, and you respond, not by addressing the eveidence I presented, but by calling me a Bigot.
It may be that my understanding of the word Bigot differs from your own... Much like my uderstanding of the term Lay Brother. Do you think it is possible for a person to think that something unflattering about the Catholic Church is true, yet not be a bigot?
How's this. I am a Christian, whether you think so or not. I am extremely offended when people call me a pagan. I am even more offended when they do so claiming to do so in the name of my Savior.
Whoa, now... I tried to make it clear I was speaking from my own perception and understanding, and not claiming any other authority. If I was speaking in the Lord's name I would have no need for any disclaimers nor any uncertainty that I could be mistaken. It seems to me that the Catholic Church practices things which the BIBLE says are pagan. Billion people or not, what God says goes. Granted, I may be mistaken in my understanding of scripture, or what I percieve in the Catholic Church. I am speaking from my understanding, which, as I understand it per scripture, is subject to deception... Hence my usage of "It seems to me" as opposed to "In Jesus' Name".
If you don't want to be "slandered," try not slandering other people.
I do try not to slander others. And my concern for you slandering me is more for your sake than mine. This is a pretty anonymous forum, what's the worst that can happen to me from being slandered? (Although, I have to admit it was a bit of a dig, as well.) It's hard to be purely motivated.
"In fact his books are one of the most effective ways of luring young boys into the rectory."
Not intentionally! ;) Sorry I attributed the previous post to you... I still think you've made a case for my ignorance, but not for bigotry. And I'm pretty sure you CAN'T unless you slander me.
Goodbye
The Vatican never purchased it.
It was erected before Christ, possibly in the time of Emperor Octavian and stood in the same place for 1600 years.
It was presumed to be the obelisk before which Nero, Diocletian, etc. presided over the torture of Christians. At some point in the ancient past it was graffitoed with the defiant Christian motto Campion related to us.
It was considered as a reminder of the dark days before Constantine for centuries.
In 1586 it was relocated to the Piazza to remind the congregants of the triumphant St. Peter's Basilica that their faith had humble beginnings in the torture and martyrdom of their ancestors.
This symbolism was remarked upon at the time in public speeches - not 250 years after the relocation.
You've been caught in another lie.
Who set you up as the authority to determine "what God said" for other people?
Or stop lying.
Either way.
I like Harry Potter but it's the potential for evil that has some worried.
What is wrong with Harry Potter is the same thing that is wrong with everything else in life, it can be used for evil or to promote evil. Without a foundation in right and wrong, without a foundation in God's word, someone might not understand that witchcraft is a very very serious evil.
Harry Potter portays those doing magic as some good and some evil. Someone who didn't know that God had strictly forbidden witchcraft, mediums, spiritists, and astrology could be encouraged to delve further into the occult.
When I was a kid I played the game "Dungeons and Dragons" and I still enjoy similar computer games. One day I was at a church and a guy was there preaching that Dungeons and Dragons was satanic. So I spoke up and explained that I had played this game as a Christian, and had not felt any warning from the Holy Spirit. I asked why he viewed it as Satanic.
He said, that the very nature of role playing games could be used to introduce people to demon worship. In dungeons and dragons you could choose a good or evil character to play. An evil player was not bounded only by his imagination. Therefore you could introduce a person to a lot of rituals and pagan ideas in the game.
So I could see his point, but I hardly thought that made the game evil. It's how the game is used. You could use a role playing game to introduce Christian concepts just as well. It's the lack of a good foundation in scripture that could allow the game to be a source of temptation.
Same thing with Harry Potter. If you know God is against witchcraft and that real power only comes from God. Then you are not in much danger and Harry Potter is just fun. It's those that are without that foundation that are put at risk by the glamorization of witchcraft.
We are letting our kids see Harry Potter, but we go over with them why God doesn't want them involved in witchcraft and the difference between imagination and reality. We figure they are going to run into stuff like this eventually anyway and we might as well use it as an opportunity to build that foundation they need.
...Which would then lead him to the question of why he is not similarly vocal of condemning the various American, Serb, and Russian posters for their "pagan" EO beliefs.
A valid point in one sense... I would agree that the Catholic Church has no monopoly on pagan influence in worship. I would not limit it to Orthodox flavors, though. Someone else mentioned Christmas, which is certainly not limited to RCC or EO... Not to mention the concept of Christian Sabbath.
But as to why the RCC seems to get more attention in this regard, has to do (I think) with Revelations. True or not, many believe that there is scripture specifically addressing the RCC in Revelations. This is not just an anti-catholic doctrine:
“The Church here in Babylon, united with you by God’s election, sends you her greeting, and so does my son, Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13, Knox). Babylon is a code-word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible and in extra-biblical works... Eusebius Pamphilius, in The Chronicle, composed about A.D. 303, noted that “It is said that Peter’s first epistle, in which he makes mention of Mark, was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon.”
[Source for above quotes: Catholic Answers] (actually I copied the quote and the source from another post)
The inconsistency of the Protestant "big tent" idea (where everybody has a home - so long as you aren't Catholic) as it is interpretted by anti-Catholics is intellectually dishonest at the best of times.
I know there are a lot of people who believe the above. I know there are a lot of "Protestants" who do not believe that. I would certainly consider the "big tent" idea to seem contradictory to many scriptures.
Duh. It's the very definition of an "anti-Catholic doctrine."
BTW, your attempt to confuse "Rome" and the Catholic Church does not bode well for your comprehension of any text.
SD
We know exactly what you're talking about, so you don't need to pussy-foot around. Do you know that Revelation talks about a "great city," not a church, and specifies in Rev 11 exactly what city the "great city" is?
It's not Rome.
Do you wear a wedding ring? Does your minister?
It's no more teaching our kids satan-worship than other fanciful tales such as the Wizard of Oz or the C.S. Lewis books.
Please read at least one book before you post an opinion!
I've made no such claim to be any authority. My statement about what God says goes, is acurate. What God says trumps what I believe, and what God says trumps what billions believe. If I'm deceived because I misunderstand the Word of God, then I'm deceived, but what God really said still goes... If a billion are deceived because they misunderstand the Word of God, then they're deceived, but what God really said still goes... "Let God be true and every man a liar."
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