The Institutes Book 1, Chapter 1

The Institutes of the Christian Religion ^ | 1500's | John Calvin

[ksen]

Ok, let's see how this goes......

[ksen]

Mom, would you mind pinging the usual suspects?

Thank you.

[Support Free Republic]

There's A Better Way To Beat The Media Clymers (And You Don't Have To Skate)!
	Donate Here By Secure Server Or mail checks to FreeRepublic , LLC PO BOX 9771 FRESNO, CA 93794 or you can use PayPal at Jimrob@psnw.com
STOP BY AND BUMP THE FUNDRAISER THREAD

[ksen]

Ok, we've been through one whole chapter, and no reference to Augustine yet......

[ksen]

Too bad the other guy's jersey didn't say "Bush". ;^)

[ksen]

Thus, our feeling of ignorance, vanity, want, weakness, in short, depravity and corruption, reminds us, (see Calvin on John 4: 10,) that in the Lord, and none but He, dwell the true light of wisdom, solid virtue, exuberant goodness. We are accordingly urged by our own evil things to consider the good things of God; and, indeed, we cannot aspire to Him in earnest until we have begun to be displeased with ourselves.

Was Calvin not as sold on Total Depravity as we may have been led to believe?

[sea oats]

I'm an avid lurker and this post has the promise of some valuble stuff. I love it. Thanks,ksen

[ksen]

Heh, you're welcome sea oats, however, you better hold off your thanks until we see how things develop over the rest of the day. ;^)

[sea oats]

I,m not afraid, ksen. I've been around a long time. I can't wait for those "usual suspects" to appear with more of the truth..ooopps...I don't mean to be inflammatory.

[ksen]

I do like Calvin's thoughts about us not knowing our true selves until we have compared ourselves to God. After all, I look pretty good compared to the average Joe on the street, but compared to God.......

I have heard it said that people won't get saved until they get lost. IOW, unless a man can see himself from God's viewpoint, he will not come to a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

[CCWoody]

Are we going to read all the books over the next few weeks?

[ksen]

If this is well-received then I don't see why we can't.

[ksen]

We talk an awful lot about what OTHER people say Calvin and Arminius taught, I thought it would be nice to let Calvin (and maybe Arminius later) speak for themselves.

[malakhi]

Ok, let's see how this goes......

What hast thou wrought? ;o)

[Corin Stormhands]

This could get interesting. I think I'll watch.

[the_doc]

Was Calvin not as sold on Total Depravity as we may have been led to believe?

I am not sure why you are asking. (Have you been reading too much stuff by Dave Hunt [grin]?)

[ksen]

I am not sure why you are asking.

I am asking because Calvin, in this opening chapter, talks about us being urged by our evil natures to consider the “good things of God.” He hasn’t said anything, yet, about God having to break through our evil nature in order to get us to consider Him. I know this is only the beginning, but I thought the way Calvin phrased that argument was peculiar, given everything I’ve heard on this forum from my Calvinist FRiends.

(Have you been reading too much stuff by Dave Hunt [grin]?)

Ha! I haven’t picked his book up for a couple of days. ;^)

[drstevej]

***Ha! I haven’t picked his book up for a couple of days. ;^)***

I suggest you set Hunt aside and read Calvin more extensively. You will more likely understand Calvin better by reading Calvin than by reading Dave Hunt.

[CCWoody]

I am asking because Calvin, in this opening chapter, talks about us being urged by our evil natures to consider the “good things of God.” ~ ksen

Well, not having ever read the Institutes (or much Augustine) I'd say that with a chapter title of Book I: The Knowledge of God the Creator Calvin would not focus on the nature of man.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that, given the title and the context of what he is saying, that Calvin is more presenting the free offer of the gospel than he is the Depravity of man. It really makes no difference that, with his evil nature, the unregenerate man doesn't ever want to repent of his evil, even as/if he considers the "goodness of God".

Woody.

Romans 2:4
Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

[ksen]

Hunt's book is required reading for my next class, as well as Ryrie's So Great Salvation, Showers' There Really is a Difference, and Thiessen's Lectures on Systematic Theology.