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Moon...Mary Baker Eddy and Russel all launched from Calvinist roots.

So did Wesley.

And I like your horizontal and vertical fate distinctions, Jean. Remember, the psycho-babble Luciferian Jung also believed in synchronicity.

I'd be careful saying Wesley launched from Calvinist roots. The Church of England began as a politial experiment. If it sided with "calvinism/lutheranism" initially, it was only because that was the opposition to the pope that Henry VIII needed at the moment.

It kept flopping back and forth in its allegiances and in Wesley's day was simply a religious piece of a secular system. It was teaching nothing specific in Wesley's day. Wesley's hope was always to renew it.

My point is this, Wesley was probably arminian from the moment he got serious about his faith. I need to look up his father's positions.

This guy sure seems concerned with predestination, doesn't he? Wonder who it is? It's almost like he takes "fate" and adds it to "destiny" and comes up with 95% of life is "predestined." Who in the world could this be? I wonder if he was ever exposed to presbyterianism filtered through a cultural overlay?

Adam and Eve could have become good human ancestors if they had accomplished their own portion of responsibility by obeying God's injunction not to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but they failed to do so. Therefore, God could not predestine them, absolutely, to be good human ancestors. In the case of fallen men, a chosen man could become a person of God's predestination only by accomplishing his own portion of responsibility. Therefore, God cannot predestine a certain person with absolute certainty that he will become what he is predestined to be.

Then, to what degree does God predestine man? In God's accomplishment of His will, centering on a certain person, He establishes it as an indispensable condition that the man must fulfill his own portion of responsibility. Therefore, God, in predestining a person for a certain mission, determines that the person will be what he is predestined to be only by the 100 percent accomplishment of the will centering on the person, with God's portion of 95 percent responsibility and man's portion of 5 percent responsibility accomplished together. Therefore, if the person fails to accomplish his own portion of responsibility, he cannot become the person God predestined.