Could I ask a serious question of some Mormons? (Please?)

today | me

[Jael]

No man who rejects the testimony of Joseph Smith can enter the kingdom of God"
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. I, p. 190).

My question:
Is that what Mormons believe?
If so, how was anyone saved before 1830.

[restornu]

And that is not you STEVE who has posted various tauts about the LDS over the past years?

That was not your who post STEVE the prophet and his counselors as the 3 stooges and other vile images?

You are a leader amongst this kind of hate!

After many years I do have my moments for I feel it as such contempt that is being unleash!

Yet you expect the very folks you malign are not to react to your behavior!

[CARepubGal]

Mirror much?

[restornu]

Depression in the christians

Why Do Christians Crack Up? (Depression

[drstevej]

I plead guilty to taunting.

However, I think you are blind to your own hypocrisy. Your posts often are judgmental and sanctimonious. When your belief system is attacked you take it as a personal attack. Yet when you criticize the beliefs of others you consider it not to be a personal attack.

I have been the first to defend you against direct personal attacks. And you know it.

[Grig]

"How do you work the breaking of sealings part of divorce?"

I don't have all the details on the process as I've never been directly involved in any divorce proceedings (and don't intend to be). I do know it does take longer to get a sealing revoked than it does to get a civil divorce in most cases, so there would be a time when they are civily divorced but still sealed. That period of time is too short to interfere with any re-marriage unless someone already has the next spouse waiting in the wings, and if they do have the next one lined up it's likely they are no longer worthy of a temple recomend anyway.

This bunk about having to give a full sexual history is way too off the wall though. If there is an accusation of infidelity, then the church has a duty to deal with that, but it is to be done with great discression and love.

[Grig]

I specificly said the rate was lower among temple married LDS. Your stats don't differentiate between temple married LDS and other LDS.

[drstevej]

***I do know it does take longer to get a sealing revoked than it does to get a civil divorce in most cases, so there would be a time when they are civily divorced but still sealed. ***

Maybe the LDS should seal with velcro. :0)

[Grig]

"For a church without a "problem " with depression you guys have alot of support"

Likewise for christians in general I guess.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Depression++in+christianity

Isn't it nice we all care enough to reach out and help others?

[RnMomof7]

Utah Pops More Prozac Style Drugs Than Other State

---

BY TROY GOODMAN

THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

 

Utahns pop more Prozac-style anti-depressant drugs than do the people of any other state, according to a new study.

The high anti-depressant use could mean Utahns are getting the drugs they need, as prescribed by their doctors, compared with prescription rates in other states. Or it could be an indicator that Utahns are more depressed than the rest of America, said state epidemiologist Robert Rolfs, who was not involved in the research.

"This study doesn't mean everybody is on anti-depressants," Rolfs said. "We do know there's a lot of variation in medical practices, and people and their doctors do things differently in different states."

Overall, though, most health care experts said they already knew Utah topped the country's Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil and Clomipramine use just by watching the number of depressed patients balloon.

"It looks about right," said Jim Jorgenson, director of pharmacy services for the University of Utah's hospital and clinic system.

The study, released this week, found the type and frequency of prescription drugs consumers take depends partly on where they live. Data were based on medical claims made to Express Scripts, a St. Louis-based pharmacy benefit management company considered one of the country's largest drug management firms.

People in Utah, Maine and Oregon take more anti-depressants than the residents of any other state, while those in California, New York and New Jersey take the least, the study said.

But Utah's anti-depressant use ranked remarkably higher than most states, averaging 1.1 prescriptions per person per year, compared with the national average of about 0.7.

Express Scripts senior researcher Brenda Motheral said the company looked at claims of 2 million Amer- icans enrolled in commercial and managed-care health plans last year. The results include adults with jobs and their dependents, but not prescription drug users enrolled in government-sponsored programs such as Medicare or Medicaid.

Motheral said high anti-depressant use in rugged states with poor weather, short summers and lots of economic woes -- such as Maine and Oregon -- was not surprising. "But with Utah, those [factors] didn't stick with us," she said. No further Express Scripts study is planned to find out why the state ranked so high.

The study found that in 45 states, including Utah, about 5 percent of patients racked up half of all drug expenditures to insurers, company benefit plans or third-party administrators in health care.

Intermountain Health Care, which said it did not use Express Scripts because it relies on in-house pharmacy control, has seen overall spending on drugs double since last year. The hike in pharmacy costs is especially troubling as IHC pharmacy costs had been dropping steadily in previous years, a company spokesman said.

Motheral said reasons vary as to why patients in Utah take more anti-depressants. Consumer preference as well as differences in risk factors can cause regional variations, she said.

Utah also came in high in terms of anti-diabetic medication use, along with analgesic (high-dose pain pills) and anti-inflammatories, the report found.

Here

And Here Utah Land of proac

Where there is smoke there is fire and where there is Prozac there is depression

[restornu]

I too have pled guilty and I do get furious with you, but You do make it very hard at times to like you! I do thank you for the times you have defended me!

I don't understand even if you don't like my faith find! You can believe whatever is in you mind. I can not change that! I try to be friends with you. I really do not hold grudges even though you can be trying!

[RnMomof7]

I specificly said the rate was lower among temple married LDS. Your stats don't differentiate between temple married LDS and other LDS.

Nor did it indicate who in the religious groups had church weddings or who was "observant".....sorry Grig ...you have just thrown a strawman that burns up in the light of day

So did your sister lose her Temple reccomend..(one of the RARE failed Temple marriages huh:>)

[CARepubGal]

I wondered what the actual dynamics were. I never heard about the full sexual history but the first spouse has to write a letter giving the ok for the ex to get sealed. That was what was confusing: they had a divorce and they were still technically sealed. She went around calling herself Wife #1 for a while.

[Grig]

"Listen, brown eyes"

Good guess, my eyes are brown.

"both of us know you have no clue what context is"

LOL, I know what context is, I just don't agree with your opinon of what the context of that verse is. You might find this interesting: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/bible/scholarship_eom.htm I find your methods a very good example of "the more subjective methods of literary criticism."

"You're not fooling anybody with this act."

Well, somehow I've unintentionaly fooled you into thinking I'm acting.

"And if you keep this up I will go right back through that entire thread and show you to be the time waster and game player that you are. "

LOL! I already posted the link. And if you feel ready to go back and answer any of the questions you avoided before, feel free to do so.

[drstevej]

Nice reply. Thanks.

[Grig]

"Laake blamed her clinical depression on "Mormonism and the men in her life." "

Do you think the self diagnosis of a clinical depressed person is reliable? Come on.

"for "terrible dark spells that followed giddy manic highs." "

In other words, bipolar disorder, a form of depression which is a biochemical disorder. Just how does Mormonism alter a person's biochemistry?

"Another Mormon Woman that did not suffer from Depression? "

I said the claim that LDS women are more likely to be depressed than non-LDS women was false. One example of a LDS woman who was clearly a bipolar nutcase doesn't disprove that.

[RnMomof7]

Look at the prozac rate Grig..

Mormon women are useless except as houskeeper and brood mare..they are not even worthy to be loved by God and brought to heaven without a husband...How depressing..and they may not verbalize it..but they "get it"

Have babies ..keep the "perfect Mormon home" and be submissive" so if you are lucky you will get into heaven on your husbands coat tails

No JOY in your salvation there...DEPRESSING

[Grig]

The media screws up statistical reporting again. Yawn.

Look at the study itself, Express Scripts studied a sample of IT'S OWN CUSTOMERS who were enrolled in commercial and managed-care health plans. It did not track the religion or gender of the sample members, and it did not track the reason for the perscriptions (some anti-depressants are also prescribed as part of other medical treatments that have nothing to do with depression).

So, the Utah sample was not a random sample of the general population of Utah by any means, we have no way of knowing how it would compare to a random sample of Utah's population, we have no way of knowing the purpose behind the prescriptions or if they went to men or women, LDS or not. In short the conclusions presented in the article can not be justified one little bit. It is a textbook case of how to abuse statistics that any first year stats student would recognize as bogus.

[scripter]

Good guess, my eyes are brown.

Of that there is no doubt in my mind.

LOL, I know what context is, I just don't agree with your opinon of what the context of that verse is.

As you've demonstrated time and time again, you either have no clue what context is or you just like to play games and make ludicrous comments such as sentences aren't related to surrounding sentences. Oh, wait, you've already done that.

I find your methods a very good example of "the more subjective methods of literary criticism."

Don't quit your day job, your humor is really bad. You don't even know what you're talking about, let alone critique someone well read in the subject. Please provide the list of books you've read on the subject of textual, literary and source criticism.

Well, somehow I've unintentionaly fooled you into thinking I'm acting.

You're indeed acting. Another thing you don't understand, brown eyes, is that you're being inconsistent. How in the world can you follow this paragraph when you don't believe the surrounding sentences are related?

LOL! I already posted the link. And if you feel ready to go back and answer any of the questions you avoided before, feel free to do so.

Nice dodge. Let's start with this current topic. In post 129 I posted my support of the context on James 1:5. In post 155 you stated

You simply declared it only applies to trial because that's what v4 is about and backed away from any request to support your position.

I know I have to spell things out for you: you asked for support of my position and I provided the above, which is yet another context issue you don't understand. Then you said above I "backed away from any request to support" my position. But there you are responding to something you said didn't exist. That's why I knew your eyes were brown.

[Grig]

I said the rate was lower among temple married LDS than the general population. You have not posted anything to show otherwise, you've only shown one study that puts the general LDS population with a divorce rate of about 24%.
That tells me nothing about the divorce rate of temple married LDS, so it has no relevance to my claim. Nothing 'straw manish' about that.

"So did your sister lose her Temple reccomend"

Her husband was emotionaly abusive, her bishop advised her to leave the guy long before she actually did. She still has her temple recomend.

"one of the RARE failed Temple marriages huh:>) "

The only failed Temple marriage I personaly know of actually.

[RnMomof7]

Grig there were MANY more articles on this..your house must be located right next to De Nile