Calvinism and Arminianism

Xenos Christian Fellowship ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[rwfromkansas]

I have to post this.....lol. Check this out. It is a picture of tattoo's that Derek Webb of the band Caedmon's Call has on his arm........the 5 Sola's. He is a Calvinist (one of the few Calvinists in Christian music unfortunately) and it shows in the CD 40 Acres; he wrote the songs for that album in many cases. The song Thankful is VERY Calvinist and is almost shockingly obviously so. Anyway, check this out...lol:

[rwfromkansas]

I apologize if I have offended any of your sensibilities; I just got a huge kick out of the tattoos. Now THAT is dedication to Reformed theology!!!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Keep practicing.

Twenty-three more to go.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

I will post no further replies on this particular subject on this thread, since fortheDeclaration and i are discussing the same subject on the "do babies go to heaven" thread. It is a waste of time for both of us to post the same replies twice. anyone wishing to follow that particular discussion is directed to the thread mentioned above. What fortheDeclaration chooses to do is of course, his own concern. i may or may not reply to other issues here, but not this particular one.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

See my #84 on this thread.

[George W. Bush]

Tatoos. Ugh.

Hopefully, this isn't the future of Calvinism. I don't know that tattooing is a terribly grave sin but I doubt that God smiles on permanently staining our flesh with slogans.

Turning his flesh into a Reformation billboard doesn't obviously benefit either him or Reformation principle.

[George W. Bush]

(one of the few Calvinists in Christian music unfortunately)

Maybe this should tell you something in general about CCM.

But then, I only really like the old hymns. And a little Chopin.

[newgeezer]

Righteous tattoos ping!

[RnMomof7]

I have saved the image for future use..I think it is funny...

[RnMomof7]

Ahhh loosen up :>)..I do not like tattoos either but ya gotta admit it makes Calvinism "mainstream".......LOL

[xzins]

ftd, DrE is the one who proposed the idea of the film preview by God before He created. Her view of God's foreknowledge and your view of God's foreknowledge are very similar. Both of you affirm that before creation (before time?) God KNEW all that would transpire and then set it in motion.

This is certainly a predestining things to definitely occur IN THAT God's foreknowledge would certainly without fail NEVER be wrong. It is predestination premised in foreknowledge. "Those he foreknew he predestined" is just as certainly unchangeable as is predetermination.

We must admit and deal with that truth. We are not far from DrE's position. The only real question is which came first: God's plan or God's foreknowledge. That is a distinction that is nigh onto impossible to untangle.

Therefore, I have decided that calvinism is NOT heretical. Calvinists are my brothers and sisters in Christ.

[George W. Bush]

Ahhh loosen up :>)..I do not like tattoos either but ya gotta admit it makes Calvinism "mainstream".......LOL

Shameless modernist. Yeah, yeah, smile at CCM and tattooing but then you still complain about Saddleback.

Newsflash: it's all one thing and it's across the board.

I suppose in a few years we'll have to listen to talk about Christians piercing their genitals with studs in the form of crosses. Won't that be a nice spiritual exercise?

[RnMomof7]

LOL..LOL..no one would notice:>)

[George W. Bush]

ftd, DrE is the one who proposed the idea of the film preview by God before He created. Her view of God's foreknowledge and your view of God's foreknowledge are very similar. Both of you affirm that before creation (before time?) God KNEW all that would transpire and then set it in motion.

I hadn't read her remarks on the subject.

I think other Calvinists like OPie and I and a few Arminians have offered some speculation at some length many months ago.

I think OPie and I pretty much advocated the idea that God exists outside the constraints of what we mere material creations call time. However, time itself is merely an aspect of God's creation and can hardly be described or imagined without reference to matter.

In this view, time is seen as a part of the construct of creation. And God is not subject to His own creation. He is entirely separate from any element of His creation and it all came forth at His will.

I think that God exists from all eternity, that before He created anything, there was nothing. Not even time. Because if there was no matter, there could hardly be time at least as we can define it. I think that God in some way exists throughout time simultaneously, an eternal Presence and Will, not subject to any physical laws of His universe, not even time. Clearly, this is an aspect of real eternity that we can scarcely conceive. It really does boggle the mind.

In viewing God in this way, Calvinists can readily offer compatible explanations for predestination and for man's free will. And all the rest of the Bible too.

[George W. Bush]

LOL..LOL..no one would notice :>)

I'm afraid you may be right.

[xzins]

The complexity just of following YOUR WRITINGS about the idea of "God and time" lends credence to the idea that unraveling the distinction between "God's determining and God's foreknowing" is nigh onto impossible. If the bible doesn't directly address it (and I cannot recall where it does), then it's wrong of me to call a calvinist a "heretic."

[George W. Bush]

The complexity just of following YOUR WRITINGS about the idea of "God and time" lends credence to the idea that unraveling the distinction between "God's determining and God's foreknowing" is nigh onto impossible.

Absolutely. Whenever the subject comes up, we readily admit that this speculation can easily move beyond that which scripture reveals.

But let's review a few basic scriptural facts about God:

• God is a Spirit
• God is Holy, Holy, Holy
• God existed before the creation of the universe

If we accept that God pre-existed His own creation and we accept that time is merely an aspect of creation that pertains to matter within God's creation, then we can readily see that God exists outside of and separate from His creation. Naturally, He acts within His creation at will. But He is not a part of it or subject to its physical constraints.

So, in what way doest the view I offered actually contradict scripture?

We have a very matter-centric view of these matters, being incapable of much else. But God is not a material being. At the risk of nihilism, I would say that the matter of time and matter and creation are inherently incomprehensible to mere creations and I suspect that our view of 'reality' isn't much better than a dog's in God's estimation. The Bible does, however, sufficiently reveal God's will for us but it is not a physics textbook. God looks on the heart, not on the mind.

[Right_Wing_Mole_In_Seattle]

Michael Medved calls tattoos the "triumph of shortsightedness", but I guess if you're going to get one it might as well be about eternal things! :-)

Speaking of Calvinists in the music industry, there is a group called Royal Ruckus. To my knowledge, they are the only hip-hop group with a link to the Westminster Confession of Faith on their web-site! Look under "Christianity 101"

Royal Ruckus

[George W. Bush]

In my list of God's scriptural attributes, I forgot one:

• God is separate, entirely separate

Scripture does affirm it but it can be readily deduced from the statements in Genesis 1 that God existed in the void before His creation of the universe.

[RnMomof7]

Michael Medved calls tattoos the "triumph of shortsightedness", "

My youngest daughter married her childhood sweetheart..they "dated" for 10 years before they married..(14-24)

When they were finishing High school he got a HUGE Tatto of a cuddly looking bear on his abdomen...He kept it hidden from his mom for ages but I knew about it from my daughter

Well they have been married 4 years now.. with a small son and bills of a couple thousand to get the "shortsighted" bear removed..

As usual Michael is correct:>)

BTW you would LOL at the look of that "romantic" rose on the breast at age 60..it becomes a long stemed rose:>)