Calvinism and Arminianism

Xenos Christian Fellowship ^ | Unknown | Unknown

[Gamecock]

Romans 12: 3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

[newgeezer]

It's hard enough to teach this to the choir over a keyboard.

You rang, Mentor?

;-)

[RnMomof7]

I learned in the past week just who exactly Jean Chauvin, the real one, was.

I did not "get" it originally either..

[rwfromkansas]

I have heard Hunt's book is not very accurate and he takes liberties with the facts. It is not something I would enjoy reading, that is for sure.

I do not think we have posted the Institutes before, but it sounds like a good idea. Quite frankly, if someone posted Dave Hunt, I would just say it misrepresents Calvinism, end the post, and leave the thread for good. That is all I would need to say. But, by arguing over initial statements, we would be kept on the topic instead of arguing over whether somethign is a good represenation or not.

[RnMomof7]

I became a Calvinist because of it..so not "useless"

I ~think~ ken is looking for a an opportunity to understand what Calvin was teaching in the institutes as oopposed to fighting them out

[rwfromkansas]

Holyt smokes....this guy says Luther was all washed up. What the heck is this loser doing in a Protestant church?

[newgeezer]

Calvin was an interesting man..brillant and spiritual

I'm hoping to read Dave Hunt's What Love Is This? someday but, having been in the audience a year ago while he mercilessly ridiculed Calvinists from his podium, I can't even start to read his book without envisioning his alternately sneering and laughing face.

It's my understanding that part of Hunt's case against Calvinism is to discredit John Calvin. To begin with, he fraternized with Catholics... I'm sure there's more but, if you know Hunt, you know that's plenty!

I just think it's so low for Hunt to presume that, by killing the messenger, it should have any bearing on the validity of the message. I mean, look at David, Solomon, Balaam, ...

[RnMomof7]

How can anything be self created dec?

Did God foreknow the sin of Lucifer?

[RnMomof7]

I listen to the conflicting words of Arminians and wonder how they can say what they say...They will tell you God had a plan for your life..this is a helpless god that is without the ability in influence man at all..but they do not see it

BTW If it is the same Hunt he has ripped apart Catholics and Charasmatics etc...He is a hyper Arminian

[Dr. Eckleburg]

God did not create sin, that is beyond His creative power since that would contradict His holy essence.

The Arminian rationalization seems to take one step forward and two steps back.

Reread what you wrote, FTD.

"...beyond His creative power."

Do you not see how you limit God? It doesn't take a Calvinist to believe that nothing is beyond God's power.

It only appears as a contradiction to our human minds. It is God's will. We shouldn't fear it. It is all there is.

And it is everything.

[the_doc]

Ryrie clearly doesn't understand justifying faith. (The problem is, he doesn't understand conversion very well.)

For that matter, I think Hunt ought to stick to cult-busting (isn't that what he is famous for?).

[fortheDeclaration]

God did not create sin, that is beyond His creative power since that would contradict His holy essence. The Arminian rationalization seems to take one step forward and two steps back. Reread what you wrote, FTD. "...beyond His creative power." Do you not see how you limit God? It doesn't take a Calvinist to believe that nothing is beyond God's power. It only appears as a contradiction to our human minds. It is God's will. We shouldn't fear it. It is all there is. And it is everything.

I know that God cannot contradict His own essence.

Thus, God's Omnipotence is limited in only doing what is consistent with those perfect attributes.

God cannot be unfair, He cannot be cruel, He cannot be the author of sin.

The fact is that what 'appears' to be a contradiction to us is one because it is one in Scripture.

Abraham appealed to God's justice and fairness because he understood God's character.

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

God would not create that which He states He hates (Prov.6:16, Zech.8:17)

[Jean Chauvin]

LOL. Then I hope you learned the ~REAL~ original spelling. (There are about 4 or 5 variations of the 'original' spelling.) 'Chauvin' is a minority "original". "Jean" is the majority, however.

Perhaps I should have picked Juan Calvino. But that would betray my dutch reformed roots.

Jean

[fortheDeclaration]

How can anything be self created dec?

Sin can be as Lucifer showed.

Did God foreknow the sin of Lucifer?

Yes, God always knew that Lucifer would sin.

The only alternative to Lucifer choosing to sin is that God wanted Lucifer to sin and pre-programmed him do so, thus, God is the author of sin.

If that is the case then stating that God is Just for sending the wicked to hell is a distortion of Justice since it is God who put them into sin in the first place.

So, what will the Calvinist fall back to when faced with making God the author of that which He hates?

God is Sovereign!!!

The Muslims say the same thing!

Time to move on!

[RnMomof7]

Yes, God always knew that Lucifer would sin.

So He could have made him differently that he would not sin or not made him at all right?

[fortheDeclaration]

Yes, God always knew that Lucifer would sin. So He could have made him differently that he would not sin or not made him at all right?

He made him perfect. So how He made him was not the issue.

If God did not want Lucifer to sin He could have prevented it by not giving Him free will.

So, are stating that you believe that God is author of sin?

[maestro]

Your#72)..........................BTTT

"Pearls"

Maranatha!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

God would not create that which He state He hates.

But he did just that. God set in motion Christ's agonizing death on the cross so that you and I might know eternal salvation.

God created everything; He is without limits.

God cannot be unfair.

But God can certainly seem unfair, i.e. Matthew 20 in the parable of the field workers who toiled different amounts but were paid the same.

Matthew 20:16 - So the last shall be first, and the first last; for many be called, but few chosen.

[maestro]

O-OOOOOOOMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[ksen]

I ~think~ ken is looking for a an opportunity to understand what Calvin was teaching in the institutes as oopposed to fighting them out.

That's a pretty fair representation. (BTW, it's Kevin, not Ken ;^) )